An embarrassing first for Australia-Climate change responsibilities

[ShortForBob]

My goodness you are a bunch of hate filled old turds.
I'm pretty sure she has you all on ignore so you are just spreading bile amongst yourselves lol
As to the topic at hand it does open up a legal means for restitution, not that any fiscal amount can repair losing your society and home.
Meli, as to the question of what can be done? I'm not sure we understand / can model it well enough but about all I can think of is creating artificial breakwaters and trying to get the ocean currents to drop sand onto sections at least of the island to build it up.
Comparatively small changes can, AFAIK, make large changes to sand formations.

Don't worry about them.
They obviously have so little insight they can't see how small and spiteful they appear especially as no one outside their little knitting circle seems to be taking any notice.

Yeah, that was my thought to about artificially changing currents.
We better start coming up with some solutions soon. I'd hate to lose Venice and Amsterdam and old Moses might not be around to save Israel this time...or whatever he did smiting the red sea.

 

[sparau]

[snip some angry waffle with abuse] Australia can do fuck-all about sea level rise. Period. Eliminating every bit of our CO2 emissions will make no difference at all. We're a bit player. It'd be like plugging a 1.5mm hole in your hull while the water was pouring in via a 75mm one you were assiduously ignoring, all the while posturing that you 'were doing something'. Sure, something totally useless overall.

Most Australians live on the fringes of drowned river valleys. It's the height of arrogance to think we can stop this at the current level. Yes, the increase in CO2 has likely sped the process up, but that's rate of change and it's likely too late now.

More La Nina events and increased inland rainfall, plus the increase in plant food (CO2) may actually be good for the Australian continent and vegetation overall. Pity about the bits on the fringes...

And I'm still waiting for my deep waterfront. Maybe if the Thwaites Glacier does what people say, I might get it.

Oh and BTW, I did 'grow' a beach via a strategically placed groyne. It's taken 20 years to get a very small beach. Not exactly a fast process and there's still 100m of sandy mud at low tide. Hence my wish for 1m of sea level rise.

FKT

Yes we are a bit player in a world wide issue, one that has resources both mineral and human to build devices to produce clean energy and export to evolving economies, both energy and systems. No one country will solve this.
So you say it is the height of arrogance to build devices or systems (e.g. enhanced weathering) that remove CO2 yet it ?wasn't? the height of arrogance to build a billion little CO2 producing engines and fuel them?
Or are you saying that also was the height of arrogance (ignorance?) so we can't be arrogant twice? I'm not really seeing why we shouldn't try or why we shouldn't 'do our bit'. Plus Australia has loads of spare sunlight and wind.
There are good indicators that market forces will power our energy restructure, good policy will help speed it up.
As to your deep water access, it may come at the cost of 50,000 refugees locally to you and food shortage...

 

[veni vidi vici]

Yes we are a bit player in a world wide issue, one that has resources both mineral and human to build devices to produce clean energy and export to evolving economies, both energy and systems. No one country will solve this.
So you say it is the height of arrogance to build devices or systems (e.g. enhanced weathering) that remove CO2 yet it ?wasn't? the height of arrogance to build a billion little CO2 producing engines and fuel them?
Or are you saying that also was the height of arrogance (ignorance?) so we can't be arrogant twice? I'm not really seeing why we shouldn't try or why we shouldn't 'do our bit'. Plus Australia has loads of spare sunlight and wind.
There are good indicators that market forces will power our energy restructure, good policy will help speed it up.
As to your deep water access, it may come at the cost of 50,000 refugees locally to you and food shortage...

How can you possibly call battery energy clean?
Wind and solar are grossly inefficient

 

[sparau]

How can you possibly call battery energy clean?
Wind and solar are grossly inefficient

The new battery on the block is Sodium Ion, i.e. 35kg in 1 cubic meter of seawater, easily separated.
The thing of note here is money invested in R&D can solve our energy issues forever, money invested in deep sea drilling or other fossil fuel tech is wasted and harmful to the planet.

 

[veni vidi vici]

The new battery on the block is Sodium Ion, i.e. 35kg in 1 cubic meter of seawater, easily separated.
The thing of note here is money invested in R&D can solve our energy issues forever, money invested in deep sea drilling or other fossil fuel tech is wasted and harmful to the planet.

Bring your better mouse trap to the market place and let the market speak

 

[Steam Flyer]

Bring your better mouse trap to the market place and let the market speak

When the market places the cost of damage to the environment on the buyer and not on the community, then yeah the market will sort it out pretty clearly.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Meli,
Nothing is impossible given unlimited resources. Our Tangier Island residents, when not busy putting up Trump signs, are always begging Virginia to spend a LOT of money to build seawalls and so on to save their island. The issue is that the "save" is temporary, it will need doing again and then again and maybe a few more times too. Then there is the huge amount of money involved, it literally would be cheaper to give each family a million dollars and tell them to move.
As for the Torres Islanders, why is Australia uniquely on the hook for this? The UK started coal mining and burning on an industrial scale around the end of the 18th century IIRC, it isn't like Australian CO2 hangs around Australia only, it is a global problem going back centuries and even collective suicide of every Australian would hardly make a dent in it.

 

[LB 15]

My goodness you are a bunch of hate filled old turds.
I'm pretty sure she has you all on ignore so you are just spreading bile amongst yourselves lol
As to the topic at hand it does open up a legal means for restitution, not that any fiscal amount can repair losing your society and home.
Meli, as to the question of what can be done? I'm not sure we understand / can model it well enough but about all I can think of is creating artificial breakwaters and trying to get the ocean currents to drop sand onto sections at least of the island to build it up.
Comparatively small changes can, AFAIK, make large changes to sand formations.

If you have a thing for old women, I am sure there are plenty of short films on pornhub you can get off on.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

So you say it is the height of arrogance to build devices or systems (e.g. enhanced weathering) that remove CO2

Actually, since I said nothing of the sort and you're attempting to verbal me, I guess you can't debate what someone has actually said either. You just want to rant.

Sorry, you're not worth the effort.

You, Meli and ETS can have a nice little kumbaya session on how everyone else is wrong and only you are right, though.

FKT

 

[ShortForBob]

Meli,
Nothing is impossible given unlimited resources. Our Tangier Island residents, when not busy putting up Trump signs, are always begging Virginia to spend a LOT of money to build seawalls and so on to save their island. The issue is that the "save" is temporary, it will need doing again and then again and maybe a few more times too. Then there is the huge amount of money involved, it literally would be cheaper to give each family a million dollars and tell them to move.
As for the Torres Islanders, why is Australia uniquely on the hook for this? The UK started coal mining and burning on an industrial scale around the end of the 18th century IIRC, it isn't like Australian CO2 hangs around Australia only, it is a global problem going back centuries and even collective suicide of every Australian would hardly make a dent in it.

Because the TSIs took their government to the UN I suppose. Something about it being their elected officials responsibility to protect their land, culture and grandma.

i don't claim to have any information or understanding of the UN's action beyond what's posted.

The point I'm making by posting is that every country with a coastal population will be having to deal with this in the relatively near future.
We can cope with fire and floods.
Rising sea levels and mass migration and climate refugee issue is the thing I worry about more than anything in the CC debate. It's going to be more than ugly.

 

[LB 15]

“The point I'm making by posting is that every country with a coastal population will be having to deal with this in the relatively near future.”

No, cut and pasting other people’s words is not making a point. And one only needs to read the title of this thread to understand you are a lying cunt. You have been presented with the facts and now you are back peddling from your claim that Austraila has been embarrassed and is to blame.
Seriously Meli, why don’t you fuck off somewhere else and seek attention. You have zero credibility on here and have become the forum Piñata.

 

[00seven]

“The point I'm making by posting is that every country with a coastal population will be having to deal with this in the relatively near future.”

No, cut and pasting other people’s words is not making a point. And one only needs to read the title of this thread to understand you are a lying cunt. You have been presented with the facts and now you are back peddling from your claim that Austraila has been embarrassed and is to blame.
Seriously Meli, why don’t you fuck off somewhere else and seek attention. You have zero credibility on here and have become the forum Piñata.

I doubt Meli even knows where the Torres Strait is. Probably has no idea that the strait acts as a funnel between the Pacific Ocean & the Arafura Sea nor how much water moves through the Torres Strait, no idea of the natural erosion that creates. Then there's the tectonic plate movements on the rim of fire to consider.

 

[sparau]

[snip some random abuse]the strait acts as a funnel between the Pacific Ocean & the Arafura Sea nor how much water moves through the Torres Strait, no idea of the natural erosion that creates. Then there's the tectonic plate movements on the rim of fire to consider.

I would have thought over the time scales we are talking about you can ignore tectonic plate movements.
Meli didn't propose the idea, I mentioned it as the only possible way I could think of to save their islands.
Lots of water movement carries lots of silt though so ???

 

[sparau]

“The point I'm making by posting is that every country with a coastal population will be having to deal with this in the relatively near future.”

No, cut and pasting other people’s words is not making a point. [snip yet more abusive waffle]

Oh ye of many original thoughts and treatises why do I only see repetitive, boring (i.e. not even creative) abuse from your gilded keyboard?
Else you could (maybe, unproven theory coming), contribute something to the discussion or say nothing.

 

[sparau]

Actually, since I said nothing of the sort and you're attempting to verbal me, I guess you can't debate what someone has actually said either. You just want to rant.

Sorry, you're not worth the effort.

You, Meli and ETS can have a nice little kumbaya session on how everyone else is wrong and only you are right, though.

FKT

I was simply trying to work out what you meant by "it's the height of arrogance to think we can stop this at the current level".
What ? CO2 levels? Sea levels?
You alluded to the fact that Australia has over geologic time scales been underwater before. Yes, so ? Stating the obvious there Sherlock.
Sir, you aren't very good at communicating clear ideas and are quick to anger and condescension.
Is this just a PA failing or do you notice people rolling their eyes when you start to pontificate in team meetings also...

 

[ShortForBob]

This might fuck up any attempts to save those small islets. I don't understand most of it, but it doesn't look like an easy place to try to tame. (Understatement)

(This is such a wonderful place to learn stuff)

PA sends my search engine in places I'd never thought to go.
Hate to think where it sends the knitting circles search engines

http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/tides/about/p4b-torres-strait.shtml

From the tidal point of view, Torres Strait is probably the most complex area in the world. Its narrow and shallow channels connect two oceans with different mean sea levels caused by the general oceanic circulation patterns. This difference introduces a westward equalising current. In addition, tidal regimes on both sides of the Strait are completely different, with diurnal tides to the west and semi diurnal to the east.

The contrast in regimes is caused by the difference of semi diurnal components of tide at either entrance, the diurnal part being generally uniform in the area. At some phases of the moon it can be high water at one entrance when it is low water at the other. In consequence, marked differences between the levels at the entrances occur resulting in strong tidal streams. While the tides may have a large diurnal component (especially at the western entrance), the tidal streams are predominantly semi diurnal.

Throughout the Prince of Wales Channel and its approaches, from Twin Island in the east to a few miles west of Goods Island, the streams flow at the times predicted for Hammond Rock (see predictions on the following pages). The rates diminish as the channel becomes less restricted and at its western entrance are only about 30 percent of those predicted at Hammond Rock. At Booby Island the rates are comparatively weak and the streams are of different character.

Near Harvey Rock and Saddle Island the streams commence and reach their maximum rates about 30 minutes earlier than at Hammond Rock, but in these more open waters the rates are comparatively weak. In Endeavour Strait the streams commence and reach their maximum rates about 40 minutes later than at Hammond Rock and, except for the more restricted parts of the Strait, their rates do not exceed 30 percent of those at Hammond Rock.

It has to be remembered however, that tidal stream predictions for Hammond Rock do not include any non tidal flows, like the equalising current mentioned above or currents caused by meteorological influences. In addition, the El-Niño Southern Ocean Oscillation can cause a drop of sea level of about 0.5 metres on the eastern side of the Strait in a very short time. The resultant changes to the water levels in the Strait, and to the current and stream direction and rates are impossible to predict.

 

[00seven]

I would have thought over the time scales we are talking about you can ignore tectonic plate movements.
Meli didn't propose the idea, I mentioned it as the only possible way I could think of to save their islands.
Lots of water movement carries lots of silt though so ???

There's no saving them in the long term.

Ignore tectonic plate movement? You could tell some people in Aceh and a few other places if you like.

You ever hear of The Mortlock (Takku) islands? Cartarets or Tuvalu perhaps? None of the TI problems are new, it's just Meli throwing up another ABC link promoting a UN nothing burger & hanging it on the Govt.

Mortlocks have been evacuating since early 2000s. They doddle back home again after a few months as evacuees.

 

[ShortForBob]

Here is more information about the claim

 

[LB 15]

“I don't understand most of it,”

That has never stopped you before. Of course you don’t understand tidal harmonics, you know nothing about the sea.
You are only here on a sailing forum because the mods are more tolerant of meddling idiots than on all the other forums you have been punted off. But only an ignorant fuckwit like you would think the Australian government are to blame for sea level rise in the western Pacific.

 

[LB 15]

I see she is peeking at the posts she is supposedly ignoring right now. What a fuckwit.