"An eviction tsunami"

[dacapo]

I'm supposed to sell a house that is inhabited by a tenant who can't be evicted? How would that work?

For your bad tenants, did the government tell you you that you weren't allowed to evict them?

it happened near me.  My friend's apartment house  was sold last friday....he's been out of work since October. Looking .....He found a p/t job to help but that only pays partial bills...still has college loans, car payment and needs to eat. Building owner told him on Thursday the place was sold.  He has until April 30 to find a new place and move out (as per the new owners) problem is, there's no place to move to as all the other apartments are being lived in by people who are in the same predicament...

 

[hasher]

A federal judge has ruled that the Federal moratorium on evictions is unconstitutional ...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-federal-judge-rules-cdcs-pandemic-eviction-moratorium/story?id=76134385

"Although the COVID-19 pandemic persists, so does the Constitution."

Although as it stands, the moratorium is still in effect and will remain so until the end of March at least, unless it is extended again.

When the moratorium is lifted, our country will see the biggest wave of evictions in history. The courts may not even be able to keep up with all of the property owners who currently are forced to supply free rent to tenants who file the COVID exemption, even while their own costs mount.

Swoop right in and buy their homes.  You might not be able to walk down the street without being shot at.  That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[mikewof]

maybe you should take it up with your lefty friends

There are a lot of people who have been hit hard by this. Formerly employed people who are now homeless, living in vans, homes all but foreclosed, with the eviction "tsunami" likely accompanied by a foreclosure avalanche too. It can be incredibly difficult for lots of people to bounce back, tenants and owners both.

That this reality is amusing to you is perhaps cause for a moment of self-reflection?

 

[mikewof]

because a roof over ones head should be a right, but having 2 roofs is just greedy.

They had a roof over their head before they signed their exemption from paying rent.

Then their rent went to other non-rent things. And now they're in a hole. I just don't understand the logic of the program. Why didn't the Trump administration just use Section-8? Why didn't the Biden administration convert the broken thing they inherited over to Section-8?

It's almost like the stopgap system was designed to force all of these evictions and foreclosures.

It's like a weird little time bomb left from Trump that Biden has made no effort to defuse.

 

[mikewof]

Been off for a few days, so haven't read the whole thread.  Don't know about Mikes state, but supposedly CT will have a bunch of the recently granted FED Covid rental assistance money, released to states in January..  Supposedly CT got 217 million.  Sure hope I can help several Tenants apply for this, as we are owed quite a bit from several of them.

I was told by a local housing assistance guy who handles these Fed Covid programs, that once the program rolls out, we may get direct payments for up to 8 months, for Tenants who qualify for this program.....

Have you taken a look through the paperwork yet?

For just one house, it took me about 80 hours of work to get it all submitted, and still no payments.

But you got a housing assistance person's help, that's better than I ever got. In my case it was far more Kafkaesque ... email links that didn't work, a website that didn't work, voicemails, voicemails, voicemails. I finally got a call back from a beleaguered state employee who seemed to want to help, but didn't have access to the Federal requirements.

You'll see when you start filling out the forms, half of them are straight-up HUD forms that require a site inspection. If your tenants cooperate, that's helpful, otherwise you'll need a police standby to go into the rental like I did to stop a leak. And then I have to write broken doors and walls, which require repair before being eligible for HUD compliance.

 

[mikewof]

A quaint notion, but which group has more voters?

Lots of "pandemic relief" seems to actually be more of a panicdemic power grab. Or, as in this case, property grab.

Could this be designed as just a big property grab? Homeowners outnumber renters 2 to 1 in the USA. But I read that the USA alone has produced more than 50 new billionaires since the COVID restrictions started.

 

[billy backstay]

Have you taken a look through the paperwork yet?

For just one house, it took me about 80 hours of work to get it all submitted, and still no payments.

But you got a housing assistance person's help, that's better than I ever got. In my case it was far more Kafkaesque ... email links that didn't work, a website that didn't work, voicemails, voicemails, voicemails. I finally got a call back from a beleaguered state employee who seemed to want to help, but didn't have access to the Federal requirements.

You'll see when you start filling out the forms, half of them are straight-up HUD forms that require a site inspection. If your tenants cooperate, that's helpful, otherwise you'll need a police standby to go into the rental like I did to stop a leak. And then I have to write broken doors and walls, which require repair before being eligible for HUD compliance.

I have not.  When I called in January there was no money left, but a new batch of money was coming from the Fed and the new program was to be operable in mid February.  Since then, I was told it had been put off to March.  I plan on calling them again on Monday.  That being said two Tenants, all on their own applied before the last programs money ran out, and received checks on their behalf without us doing anything except one small piece of paper, confirming they were our Tenants and they owed us back rent.

 

[mikewof]

Yeah, I've often thought that the homeless problem could be solved with all those empty holiday homes and airbnbs 

There's 139 million dwellings in the USA, one for every 2.5 people.

9 million in Oz, one for every 2.6 people.

each home owner in the usa averages 2.4 rooms per person inc children.

we're  not far behind at 2.3

most other OECD countries average 1.2-1.6 rooms pp.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/housing/

that's obscene.

Come the revolution, people like me, all alone with 2 cats and a dog in three bedroom, million dollar + townhouses (Mike's out of date  ) will be relocated to bedsitters. 

I don't know about "obscene" but rather a facet of contemporary construction and occupancy rules. 

Older locations like Rome, NYC, London, etc., tend to get filled up in bedrooms because the land is so expensive.

In the newer suburbs though, it costs about the same to build a five bedroom home as a two bedroom home, the costs are mainly site related; water, flood control, streets, tax base. Adding a few extra walls to make more bedrooms is often a result of the county requirement to maintain minimum property taxes for that development.

And it's not going to turn around it seems, the global population rate increase is down near 1, and headed to zero by 2060. These homes are often good for hundreds of years, even in a place like Nairobi or India. 

 

[Burning Man]

so the federal government attempts to support the people it represents and the constitution says no?

what a great piece of paper.

The problem is the CDC mandate, while it makes sense to do in a crisis, is an unfunded mandate.  Unless the gov't provides the same sort of assistance to the landlords as it does to the renters - it is grossly unfair.  There are people who own rentals who rely on that rent to put food on their own table and to pay the mortgages to keep the property from being taken away from them by the bank.  So it's not a cut and dried thing.

I'm one of those above btw, so it's personal for me too.  I have a renter who lost her job briefly and just stopped paying rent, even after she got a new job.  She got in her mind that this "moratorium on eviction" was a free ride and she was going to camp out rent free.  I tried to work with her to make small payments to catch up over time and I was massively flexible with her.  When she refused all comms to work it out, I showed up at her door and said I was going to file eviction papers.  That night she filed the necessary paperwork to pull the CDC "no eviction card".  I had to have a lawyer send her an official letter stating roughly that while the mandate might prevent me from evicting her now, even a filed eviction notice will crush any future chances of renting anywhere decent AND that she is still on the hook for back rent + interest for ever and that I will pursue her to the ends of the earth to get it.  But that if she started to make some attempt to catch back up, this would all go away.  Surprisingly, a payment arrived the next day with some extra catch up payments.  It all worked out, and yes I could probably have eaten having no payments for a little while..... but not everyone has that luxury nor has a shooting buddy and good friend who is a lawyer and would do that for free.  He bills at close to $600/hr.  A landlord barely hanging on by his or her teeth from going under themselves cannot afford to have their only source of income stopped as well.  So any "relief" from eviction better also include rent subsidies - or it IS absolutely unconstitutional.  

 

[Burning Man]

Shocking . What sort of people want to evict tenants and make them homeless in the midst of a pandemic?

Strange that Mike posts this without comment as he's skin in the game.

The sort of people who themselves will be homeless when the bank repossess their home for being unable to make the mortgage payment and be able to buy food for their family.  That's who.

 

[mikewof]

I have not.  When I called in January there was no money left, but a new batch of money was coming from the Fed and the new program was to be operable in mid February.  Since then, I was told it had been put off to March.  I plan on calling them again on Monday.  That being said two Tenants, all on their own applied before the last programs money ran out, and received checks on their behalf without us doing anything except one small piece of paper, confirming they were our Tenants and they owed us back rent.

They told me the same thing in January, no more funds. Then I reapplied and I got an automatic email that there are some funds. So far no payments, but I'm hopeful.

You seem to have good tenants, that's helpful.

One good thing that has come from all this though ... I haven't been able to afford a mechanic or body shop, I've become half decent at fixing my family's and friend's vehicles. I've wrenched at least ten vehicles back into service in less than a year. Maybe this is going to be my new post-apocalypse job!

 

[Burning Man]

No decent property owner wants to evict tenants, it's a lose-lose proposition.

But the moratorium says that the tenant needs to only file the COVID exemption and then they can stop paying rent.

In my case, I have a mortgage and lots of costs on my grandmother's old house, I rented it to a tenant who needed it, and they filed the COVID exemption days later. The exemption claims that the tenant lost their jobs due to COVID, but they still need to attempt to pay some rent. In my case they still have jobs and have paid no rent since October. They won't pay gas, electric or water, and I can't shut it off, so I have to pay that for them. They've broken doors and walls and get into raging fights that end with visits from the police. And eviction is not allowed.

We have social safety nets to prevent homelessness, it's called Section-8 and I'm happy to rent Section-8, I have in the past. But there is no compliance check on the COVID exemption, it's just a blanket permission to not pay any rent.

Yes, I'm sure that it does help some people who have been genuinely impacted, but it's also apparently abused. If you feel proactive Meli, why not rent out your home to someone who breaks down doors and walls and doesn't pay rent. Then you'll have "skin in the game" too! Whee!

Yep, 100%.  I own several rental properties in town.  I have a current renter who did the exact same thing, filed the COVID paperwork because she thought it was a free ride.  Fortunately, my other two tenants are awesome and have had no troubles at all.  

I am attempting to buy another rental before the home prices rise any further.  We went and looked at a property that already had a family living there as tenants - which I would prefer as it saves the asspain of advertising and doing all the stuff to prep it to rent.  I would prefer to keep them in the home.  SWMBO and I went and looked at it.  It was pretty much the perfect rental -  good part of town, size, cost, etc.  We chatted to the husband and wife who were there and they were both unemployed.  Also while the place was not trashed, they also had not done a great deal to keep it clean.  But the lack of income was a Deal breaker...... we walked away.   While they might have been great tenants who would have found a way to keep up on rent, there no way was I taking the risk of dealing with a property that could be held hostage.  

And again most landlords (who are not giant corporations) have properties where the rent barely covers the mortgage on the home.  Any remainder is what pays the bills.  There are many of these landlords who themselves have become unemployed due to COVID and the rental income is their ONLY income that feeds them.  Where is the help for them?  I haven't followed it in great detail, but my understanding is even this $1.9 Trillion COVID aid package doesn't address property owners who have tenants not paying.  I hope I'm wrong on that.  

 

[Burning Man]

Regardless, when the moratorium is lifted, there WILL be an eviction tsunami, I don't see how that can be avoided, nor do I see how this has anything to do with COVID. It seems that a better method would have just been to extend Section-8 benefits to people with demonstrated need, rather than their ability to sign a two-page COVID form. At least with Section-8, there are social workers who monitor the situation. But this COVID exemption is just a free-for-all, there is no oversight that I can see anywhere.

Yup

 

[Burning Man]

because a roof over ones head should be a right, but having 2 roofs is just greedy.

YGTBSM!!!  How is owning a property to generate income any different than owning any other business to generate income????  It's called entrepreneurialism.  Isn't that supposed to be a good thing?? 

 

[mikewof]

Yep, 100%.  I own several rental properties in town.  I have a current renter who did the exact same thing, filed the COVID paperwork because she thought it was a free ride.  Fortunately, my other two tenants are awesome and have had no troubles at all.  

I am attempting to buy another rental before the home prices rise any further.  We went and looked at a property that already had a family living there as tenants - which I would prefer as it saves the asspain of advertising and doing all the stuff to prep it to rent.  I would prefer to keep them in the home.  SWMBO and I went and looked at it.  It was pretty much the perfect rental -  good part of town, size, cost, etc.  We chatted to the husband and wife who were there and they were both unemployed.  Also while the place was not trashed, they also had not done a great deal to keep it clean.  Deal breaker...... we walked away.   While they might have been great tenants who would have found a way to keep up on rent, no way was I taking the risk of dealing with a property that was being held hostage.  

And again most landlords (who are not giant corporations) have properties where the rent barely covers the mortgage on the home.  Any remainder is what pays the bills.  There are many of these landlords who themselves have become unemployed due to COVID and the rental income is their ONLY income that feeds them.  Where is the help for them?  I haven't followed it in great detail, but my understanding is even this $1.9 Trillion COVID aid package doesn't address property owners who have tenants not paying.  I hope I'm wrong on that.  

The $1.9 trillion, the rule of thumb in these cases is that at least half of any assumed debt will find it's way into the pockets of financiers before the money hits the streets. In this case, I guess my kids are going to get the debt.

I'm not a property investor, but rather my family has been in this area since about 1850, so we have property that still is in the family, and I like to fix things, it kind of connects me to my family who died. My grandparents old house, it's definitely been a money pit, but a couple years ago between tenants, we had a family picnic there in the empty house, all the cousins, uncles, everyone. We got to relive so many memories all the cousins and their children. It was like a time machine, one of the best days ever. I never met my grampa Bill, but we drank some beer in his old house, and shared memories.

When I saw the damage from the current tenants, I didn't get upset, it was kind of reassuring, another chance to fix my grandparents house.

 

[Burning Man]

Yeah, I've often thought that the homeless problem could be solved with all those empty holiday homes and airbnbs 

There's 139 million dwellings in the USA, one for every 2.5 people.

9 million in Oz, one for every 2.6 people.

each home owner in the usa averages 2.4 rooms per person inc children.

we're  not far behind at 2.3

most other OECD countries average 1.2-1.6 rooms pp.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/housing/

that's obscene.

Come the revolution, people like me, all alone with 2 cats and a dog in three bedroom, million dollar + townhouses (Mike's out of date  ) will be relocated to bedsitters. 

I literally thought you could not be more stupid, but you've yet again proven me wrong.   <_<

 

[billy backstay]

We are owed around 15 grand total, and a few thousand more as of March 1st.  Fortunately 3/4 of the condos have retired mortgages, so we are just squeaking by between the rents we do collect, Missus SSI, and my lousy paying job.  Just got to hang on by my fingernails, until August, when I get SSI, which will be more than the job, and I will retire from that, and drive a 10 passenger van for 20 hours a week, instead of 40 hours a week, starting at 6:30 AM. Van driver pays the same as the Contractor job at a Mil-Spec plant. Got pretty good overtime there, before Covid, but that's over.

 

[Burning Man]

"we own an apartment building"

What's wrong with that, Komrade Meli?  Who is supposed to own it?  The state?

 

[Burning Man]

We are owed around 15 grand total, and a few thousand more as of March 1st.  Fortunately 3/4 of the condos have retired mortgages, so we are just squeaking by between the rents we do collect, Missus SSI, and my lousy paying job.  Just got to hang on by my fingernails, until August, when I get SSI, which will be more than the job, and I will retire from that, and drive a 10 passenger van for 20 hours a week, instead of 40 hours a week, starting at 6:30 AM. Van driver pays the same as the Contractor job at a Mil-Spec plant. Got pretty good overtime there, before Covid, but that's over.

But yet ETS says you're greedy and meli thinks all landlords are millionaires and can't let their renters stay for nothing forever.  

 

[MR.CLEAN]

There’s no injunction as of yet so sit tight til appeal period runs. 
 

anyone looking to sell res property in CO or WA or OR, give me a shout at [email protected]

Things are about to get sporty