An Unlimited America's Cup

[GMT]

OK, I could go on about the fact that while LE hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets, EB builds an amazing boat, skipper's it himself (sans helmet, etc...), and flys the hull the first day out. Come on. Anybody with an ounce of personal pride and a love of sailing (hold on a minute, I'll get to the engine), and especially multihulls has to love that balls to the wall, in your face response by EB. This has to be point to EB by any rationale assessment.

I could also go on and on about the stupid Indian, all the idiots that have a name starting with H and all you other blind rabbid BMWO that can't see past the nose on your face and spin victory out of defeat. You created and supporeted a stacked deed and deck that now works against you. You wanted the engine gone said it was going to have to go and instead it stays. To be so wrong so often and to have to spend so much time spinning victory from defeat must leave no time for work. How do you do it?

But, no, this post is not about either of these things. This post is about the engine and why while I originally thought it a bad idea, I now think its good. And I don't mean good for the AC, or good for LE or EB or either of the teams. I mean good for the multihull cause.

You see, I love multihulls. They are without a doubt the most efficient (ie best) way to take what nature gives and travel over the water. The designs approach art and the sensation of sailing them approaches flying while monohulls are more like plowing. I do not hate monhulls (indeed race on some) but multis have always been the fastest, most pretty beasts on the water.

But the monhull crowd wanted what we had so they first went to sportboats with crew hiking like fools to stay up-right and then when they wanted more they decided to cheat. They put engines on their boats to sling a windward hull they call a canting keel across the bottom of their hull. They quickly trim their sails with powered winches. Powered only by man and the wind went out the window much to my dismay. The results, though a bit smelly if downwind, are impressive when they are not sinking as in the the next to last Volvo. Indeed, designs have improved and the cheater boats do amazing things. They are becoming - dare I say it - multihull like in their abilities. The gap has narrowed. BUT THEY DO THIS BY CHEATING THE CODE OF POWERED BY MAN AND THE WIND ONLY.

Well, for me this is not about the man - EB or LE. I say its time the multihulls show what we can do with an unlimited budget and unconstrained rules. Sure I will always prefer to own and sail without a power assist but at the same time I want to see what an all out balls to the wall multihull would be like. I want to see speeds and designs that will make a VO70 look like a model T Ford.

So I say thanks to the NY courts.

I can't wait to see the multis that get built and what they can do.

 

[Remodel]

Fine. Call it the power assisted multihull championship of the world. I'm fine with that.

Just don't call it the America's Cup.

 

[MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS]

Fine. Call it the power assisted multihull championship of the world. I'm fine with that.
Just don't call it the America's Cup.

UGH = + 1

 

[Rennmaus]

Fine. Call it the power assisted multihull championship of the world. I'm fine with that.
Just don't call it the America's Cup.

UGH = + 1

And another +.

 

[GMT]

Fine. Call it the power assisted multihull championship of the world. I'm fine with that.
Just don't call it the America's Cup.

Why not call it the America's Cup? Your own NY judge says your own GS Deed says that this is exactly what the America's Cup is.

Fine. Call it the power assisted multihull championship of the world. I'm fine with that.
Just don't call it the America's Cup.

UGH = + 1

You are almost to dumb to merit a response. Besides, you are the one wanting to go back to court to get the Cup rather than sail. If you want the Cup so bad you should be happy. Clearly you have the edge in technology and budget. You should win this battle and even better win it on the water assuming you ever actually race. Or do you just like court rooms? Again, your judge says this is what the Deed allows. EB is just following the Deed. It must piss you off to no end to know your own judge says so.

 

[MauganTornado]

OK, I could go on about the fact that while LE hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets, EB builds an amazing boat, skipper's it himself (sans helmet, etc...), and flys the hull the first day out. Come on. Anybody with an ounce of personal pride and a love of sailing (hold on a minute, I'll get to the engine), and especially multihulls has to love that balls to the wall, in your face response by EB. This has to be point to EB by any rationale assessment.

How could anyone hold EB in any other light other than pure contempt for what he attempted to do to the most premier event in all of sailing?

I don't care if he's out there, trapped off the side of CZ with 42 foot racks off the side doing the wild thing downwind wearing nothing but a banana hammock - I still hate him with a passion for trying to be a pirate with the Cup.

 

[duncan]

the history of the event is of monhulls with soft sails using winches. alfa romeo is not a AC boat. i dont know of a power-assisted AC boat prior to this. Im not a fan of multis, but i respect the technology, skill and subsequent paradigm shift its bringing to the sport. I just wish it was out of the AC. I think the prestart isnt going to be as much fun, now.

and the helmets are for safety- these beasts can kill.

 

[GMT]

OK, I could go on about the fact that while LE hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets, EB builds an amazing boat, skipper's it himself (sans helmet, etc...), and flys the hull the first day out. Come on. Anybody with an ounce of personal pride and a love of sailing (hold on a minute, I'll get to the engine), and especially multihulls has to love that balls to the wall, in your face response by EB. This has to be point to EB by any rationale assessment.

How could anyone hold EB in any other light other than pure contempt for what he attempted to do to the most premier event in all of sailing?

I don't care if he's out there, trapped off the side of CZ with 42 foot racks off the side doing the wild thing downwind wearing nothing but a banana hammock - I still hate him with a passion for trying to be a pirate with the Cup.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Do you hide behind your desk and lawyers too or do you sail?

Do you wear your safety helmet?

And what was so premier about the AC? The boats that split in half and sank? Hired guns getting rich designing and sailing boats that cost millions and go slower than shit whilke fat cat patrons sat on shore? And besides, even someone as dense as you would have to admit that EB ran one of the, if not the, premier AC event. Go back and check the press before the lawyers came to town.

But still, I am glad they did. Now you have mano a mano event (well assuminmg one mano can find his life jacket, helmet and other safety gear and come out from hiding behind his desk and lawyers) sailed in the biggest baddest multihulls ever to roam the planet.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

OK, I could go on about the fact that while LE hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets, EB builds an amazing boat, skipper's it himself (sans helmet, etc...), and flys the hull the first day out. Come on. Anybody with an ounce of personal pride and a love of sailing (hold on a minute, I'll get to the engine), and especially multihulls has to love that balls to the wall, in your face response by EB. This has to be point to EB by any rationale assessment.

How could anyone hold EB in any other light other than pure contempt for what he attempted to do to the most premier event in all of sailing?

I don't care if he's out there, trapped off the side of CZ with 42 foot racks off the side doing the wild thing downwind wearing nothing but a banana hammock - I still hate him with a passion for trying to be a pirate with the Cup.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Do you hide behind your desk and lawyers too or do you sail?

Do you wear your safety helmet?

And what was so premier about the AC? The boats that split in half and sank? Hired guns getting rich designing and sailing boats that cost millions and go slower than shit whilke fat cat patrons sat on shore? And besides, even someone as dense as you would have to admit that EB ran one of the, if not the, premier AC event. Go back and check the press before the lawyers came to town.

But still, I am glad they did. Now you have mano a mano event (well assuminmg one mano can find his life jacket, helmet and other safety gear and come out from hiding behind his desk and lawyers) sailed in the biggest baddest multihulls ever to roam the planet.

Oh, and there is none of that here??? Not the slow part mind you but who is sailing his boat? No fat cat patrons in Switzerland??? If EB is so great for the Cup than why was there so little support for his new vision of what it should be. The last Cup aside EB will probably go down in history as the worst thing that ever happened to the Cup. A complete power grab. After this is all over who do you see coming out to play with him and his new vision cup? That is if he wins. I think if he wins there won't be another cup for a long time. No one is going to spend the $$ to play his game. He will be big winner with no one to play with, the bully alone in the sand box. And why are we loosers, the courts haven't exactly been knid to EB?

 

[Hastings]

OK, I could go on about the fact that while LE hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets

There are some wild excesses and a ton of silliness on SA.

But, mercifully, no Sailing Anarchy tough guy has scorned the BOR decision to wear helmets.

Until you send a cheap shot across the bows.

When multihulls were first mooted, there was a sensible discussion here about the dangers of these big boats.

Entrapment (under nets) is an issue. And so is falling 90 feet and hitting an engine cowling or, on the other boat, a winch handle.

Just as properly dressed professional ice hockey players do not have to endure scorn for doing their best to avoid brain damage, sailors are entitled to protection.

The notion BOR people are "hiding behind helmets" is ridiculous and, to reassure us your own cognitive processes are normal, I am hereby inviting you to withdraw that comment.

Over to you.

 

[MauganTornado]

dude I couldn't afford a lawyer if I wanted to.

And yes, I have sailed with a helmet before (when I was sponsored to wear one). I race high performance beachcats where the incidence of injury warrants wearing protective gear. Larry Ferber, a fellow Tybee 500 sailor, and fucking Neurosurgeon, wears a helmet everytime he sails. Only someone as dense as you would criticize someone for protecting their melons on something thats potentially as dangerous as Dogzilla.

 

[GMT]

OK, I could go on about the fact that while LE hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets

There are some wild excesses and a ton of silliness on SA.

But, mercifully, no Sailing Anarchy tough guy has scorned the BOR decision to wear helmets.

Until you send a cheap shot across the bows.

When multihulls were first mooted, there was a sensible discussion here about the dangers of these big boats.

Entrapment (under nets) is an issue. And so is falling 90 feet and hitting an engine cowling or, on the other boat, a winch handle.

Just as properly dressed professional ice hockey players do not have to endure scorn for doing their best to avoid brain damage, sailors are entitled to protection.

The notion BOR people are "hiding behind helmets" is ridiculous and, to reassure us your own cognitive processes are normal, I am hereby inviting you to withdraw that comment.

Over to you.

I withdraw nothing except thinking the indian was the dumbest on this forum. I forgot about you. Hell even Clean thinks you are an ass and that is scraping the dregs.

I want to talk about how cool it is that we are going to see the fastest multis ever, you like to talk about the men. OK.

If I must compare, I am less inclined to make fun of the helmets (though maybe it does say alot... guess LE must be worried about getting sued) and more inclined to make fun of the fact that he hides behind his desk and lawyers. Your boy can't drive. Face it. Its a fact. LE can not, could not, did not take the helm of his own boat and/or fly a hull to this day. The girlie-boy does not have the stones to put on the helmet and drive. LE, built and sailed his own boat (without the girlie-boy helmet... since I know you love this point so much), flying the hull on day 1.

Over to you.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

it's all been hashed out here before, too many times. A few teams signed up, backed out, sued. Those that stayed never expressed their delight with system. My point is where are those teams now? Will they still be around when the dust settles? Who will EB go play with under his rules. You are making hin out to be the messiah. I disagree. So do lots of others. And to the helmet point. 2 people on my dads IOR 50 footer got skull fractures while sailing. Foredeck guy got the pole dropped on his head and my mom got a winch handle behind her ear while tailing. Nobody laughed at the foredeck guy when he showed up with a hard hat and nobody gave my mom shit for changing postions on the boat. Your remarks were just childish. But that's what these forums are for.

 

[RHough]

You see, I love multihulls. They are without a doubt the most efficient (ie best) way to take what nature gives and travel over the water. The designs approach art and the sensation of sailing them approaches flying while monohulls are more like plowing. I do not hate monhulls (indeed race on some) but multis have always been the fastest, most pretty beasts on the water.
But the monhull crowd wanted what we had so they first went to sportboats with crew hiking like fools to stay up-right and then when they wanted more they decided to cheat. They put engines on their boats to sling a windward hull they call a canting keel across the bottom of their hull. They quickly trim their sails with powered winches. Powered only by man and the wind went out the window much to my dismay. The results, though a bit smelly if downwind, are impressive when they are not sinking as in the the next to last Volvo. Indeed, designs have improved and the cheater boats do amazing things. They are becoming - dare I say it - multihull like in their abilities. The gap has narrowed. BUT THEY DO THIS BY CHEATING THE CODE OF POWERED BY MAN AND THE WIND ONLY.

I say its time the multihulls show what we can do with an unlimited budget and unconstrained rules. Sure I will always prefer to own and sail without a power assist but at the same time I want to see what an all out balls to the wall multihull would be like. I want to see speeds and designs that will make a VO70 look like a model T Ford.

So I say thanks to the NY courts.

I can't wait to see the multis that get built and what they can do.

When you take the words intended to inflame out, this is a very good post. One small correction only; thank the Deed ... the court is just enforcing it.

I like the angle that the cheater monos are claiming to have closed the gap with pure, manual power multi's. To shut them up, these boats will show them that given the same rule exclusions, the multi's are even faster than their gutted lead mines.

Personally I'd have preferred the match to be sailed with Rule 52 in force, but as long as the rules are the same for both the contest is one of design, as the AC should be.

Safety gear and helmets? The term is ATGATT "All The Gear All The Time". Not making any effort to protect yourself is not macho, it is foolish. Macho young men on 120Hp sport bikes wearing t-sirt, shorts, and flip-flops (no helmet of course) are not admired, nor should anyone that takes foolish risks be admired.

 

[Kevin Schultz]

OK, I could go on about the fact that while LE hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets

There are some wild excesses and a ton of silliness on SA.

But, mercifully, no Sailing Anarchy tough guy has scorned the BOR decision to wear helmets.

Until you send a cheap shot across the bows.

When multihulls were first mooted, there was a sensible discussion here about the dangers of these big boats.

Entrapment (under nets) is an issue. And so is falling 90 feet and hitting an engine cowling or, on the other boat, a winch handle.

Just as properly dressed professional ice hockey players do not have to endure scorn for doing their best to avoid brain damage, sailors are entitled to protection.

The notion BOR people are "hiding behind helmets" is ridiculous and, to reassure us your own cognitive processes are normal, I am hereby inviting you to withdraw that comment.

Over to you.

I withdraw nothing except thinking the indian was the dumbest on this forum. I forgot about you. Hell even Clean thinks you are an ass and that is scraping the dregs.

I want to talk about how cool it is that we are going to see the fastest multis ever, you like to talk about the men. OK.

If I must compare, I am less inclined to make fun of the helmets (though maybe it does say alot... guess LE must be worried about getting sued) and more inclined to make fun of the fact that he hides behind his desk and lawyers. Your boy can't drive. Face it. Its a fact. LE can not, could not, did not take the helm of his own boat and/or fly a hull to this day. The girlie-boy does not have the stones to put on the helmet and drive. LE, built and sailed his own boat (without the girlie-boy helmet... since I know you love this point so much), flying the hull on day 1.

Over to you.

EB turned a 0.8 billion company he inherited into a 2.7 billion company.

LE founded a 24 billion company.

EB cashed out most of that already.

LE is still involved day to day, currently in the middle of the acquisition of Sun, a major move.

And LE is the girlie man? Get over it. They both have big stones, LE just isn't as good a sailor as EB. So?

Phil Jackson is not as good of a basketball player as Isiah Thomas - but as a coach Phil has how many rings? And Isiah has 0.

Same goes for Steinbrenner and the Yankees or whatever analogy you want. Often times the leader of a sports team whether it be owner, coach, manager, GM etc is not nearly as good as the players on his team. Doesn't mean he isn't instrumental in winning the championship.

 

[GMT]

There you go again...

Oh, and there is none of that here??? Not the slow part mind you but who is sailing his boat? No fat cat patrons in Switzerland???
Yes, and he is sailing the boat he built. How about LE?

If EB is so great for the Cup than why was there so little support for his new vision of what it should be.

There is more support for EB than LE. Most had signed off on the final protocol.

The last Cup aside EB will probably go down in history as the worst thing that ever happened to the Cup. A complete power grab. After this is all over who do you see coming out to play with him and his new vision cup?

The exact same ones that signed off on the last final protocol.

That is if he wins. I think if he wins there won't be another cup for a long time. No one is going to spend the $$ to play his game. He will be big winner with no one to play with, the bully alone in the sand box.

See above. Want to bet. Its LE that will have limited takers.

And why are we loosers, the courts haven't exactly been knid to EB?

Where did I say losers? Well, you have lost every time you have faced him on the eater but lets ignore that. The courts have not been kind to EB but they have not been horrible either. It took an appeal for LE to win and depite your spin you lost this last round. The engine y'all said had to go... stays.

 

So buckle up your helmets, drag your boss from behind his desk and lawyers. Your court says ytour Deed say EB is right to design the fastest multi any technology will allow.

 

The AC is about to get interesting finally and multis are about to get a shot in the arm of the crazy juice.

 

[Tornadosail2012]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Do you hide behind your desk and lawyers too or do you sail?

Do you wear your safety helmet?

And what was so premier about the AC? The boats that split in half and sank? Hired guns getting rich designing and sailing boats that cost millions and go slower than shit whilke fat cat patrons sat on shore? And besides, even someone as dense as you would have to admit that EB ran one of the, if not the, premier AC event. Go back and check the press before the lawyers came to town.

But still, I am glad they did. Now you have mano a mano event (well assuminmg one mano can find his life jacket, helmet and other safety gear and come out from hiding behind his desk and lawyers) sailed in the biggest baddest multihulls ever to roam the planet.

I think that if you look back at the 26th and 27th events in 83 & 87, you will find that those were two of the best since challenger series first began.

 

[Norberto]

OK, I could go on about the fact that while LE hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets

There are some wild excesses and a ton of silliness on SA.

But, mercifully, no Sailing Anarchy tough guy has scorned the BOR decision to wear helmets.

Until you send a cheap shot across the bows.

When multihulls were first mooted, there was a sensible discussion here about the dangers of these big boats.

Entrapment (under nets) is an issue. And so is falling 90 feet and hitting an engine cowling or, on the other boat, a winch handle.

Just as properly dressed professional ice hockey players do not have to endure scorn for doing their best to avoid brain damage, sailors are entitled to protection.

The notion BOR people are "hiding behind helmets" is ridiculous and, to reassure us your own cognitive processes are normal, I am hereby inviting you to withdraw that comment.

Over to you.

I withdraw nothing except thinking the indian was the dumbest on this forum. I forgot about you. Hell even Clean thinks you are an ass and that is scraping the dregs.

I want to talk about how cool it is that we are going to see the fastest multis ever, you like to talk about the men. OK.

If I must compare, I am less inclined to make fun of the helmets (though maybe it does say alot... guess LE must be worried about getting sued) and more inclined to make fun of the fact that he hides behind his desk and lawyers. Your boy can't drive. Face it. Its a fact. LE can not, could not, did not take the helm of his own boat and/or fly a hull to this day. The girlie-boy does not have the stones to put on the helmet and drive. LE, built and sailed his own boat (without the girlie-boy helmet... since I know you love this point so much), flying the hull on day 1.

Over to you.

Best statement on this entire forum:

The girlie-boy doesn't have balls!

I just spilled my beverage all over the keyboard (but it was worth it)

 

[Remodel]

You don't get it GMT, and you obviously never will, so there is little point in discussing it further.

For what it's worth, yes, it will be amazing to see two power assisted monstrosities go after each other on the water, but in terms of the spirit and intentions of the Deed of Gift, it will in no way, shape or form resemble the America's cup.

Period.