And then there was one...

gusmus

Super Anarchist
I was always of the opinion that the Whitbread/Volvo should be in one designs built to a brick shithouse standard
Oh? Like this?

http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/

troll_face_160x130.png
You've got it. The only difference would be the Boat. The VOR70 has proved itself as a good design. The keel issues seem to have been sorted but now we are seeing delaminated hulls and masts coming down. The answer to these problems lies not in the fact that there was extremely heavy weather or that a small fitting failed at the spreaders. The answer lies in that the kit was simply not built strongly enough for the conditions they faced. A VOR based one design with better constructional safety margins will not only be cheaper to build but I can see it attracting more entries to the race. Wouldn't it also be nice to see (as with the clipper race), the whole fleet actually arriving at the place they were trying to get to without the need to hitch lifts across half of the oceans on board convenient cargo ships. Things will always break on boats especially when you are pushing to the limit but there is a huge difference between managable breakeages and unmanagable destruction occurring in some of the most inhospitable corners of the planet. The VOR needs a serious rethink. Not only for the safety of the crews, but in the damage occurring to sponsorship in the future. Some of these companys will pull out in the future, not because of monetary problems, but for the simple fact that when the circus comes to town they want to see the whole troupe of trapeze artists peforming at full swing and not sitting around the ring doing nothing because the trapeze rope broke.

 
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fetzer24

Super Anarchist
1,072
24
Muskegon MI
Seriously people. All of the hard work has already been done by different designers. The answer is right under your noses.

/monthly_04_2012/post-2631-055942100%201333626311_thumb.jpg

 

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RATM

Anarchist
852
45
I was always of the opinion that the Whitbread/Volvo should be in one designs built to a brick shithouse standard
Oh? Like this?

http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/

troll_face_160x130.png
You've got it. The only difference would be the Boat. The VOR70 has proved itself as a good design. The keel issues seem to have been sorted but now we are seeing delaminated hulls and masts coming down. The answer to these problems lies not in the fact that there was extremely heavy weather or that a small fitting failed at the spreaders. The answer lies in that the kit was simply not built strongly enough for the conditions they faced. A VOR based one design with better constructional safety margins will not only be cheaper to build but I can see it attracting more entries to the race. Wouldn't it also be nice to see (as with the clipper race), the whole fleet actually arriving at the place they were trying to get to without the need to hitch lifts across half of the oceans on board convenient cargo ships. Things will always break on boats especially when you are pushing to the limit but there is a huge difference between managable breakeages and unmanagable destruction occurring in some of the most inhospitable corners of the planet. The VOR needs a serious rethink. Not only for the safety of the crews, but in the damage occurring to sponsorship in the future. Some of these companys will pull out in the future, not because of monetary problems, but for the simple fact that when the circus comes to town they want to see the whole troupe of trapeze artists peforming at full swing and not sitting around the ring doing nothing because the trapeze rope broke.

+1 If they built a VOR70 One Design with Hull and Spars being built to strict OD standards, great. The sails and the instrument package/on board computers would be the difference. They could even go one more step and require the crews to rotate boats after each leg. Ask any college sailer, it's not hard to win in the hot boat, it's limiting the damange when you have the brick.

 
One can't engineer safety factors into hulls and rigs to accomodate the forces experienced when launching a 70 footer off the top of the wave at 30+ kts. It is what it is and the racers understand they are risking their lives. What's the alternative? Fetzer24 has it nailed!

 

SailSailBail

Member
370
0
UK
What is the point of designing the fastest boat to not finish?

May as well just get all the designers to plug in their designs into some software and make it a computer game.

 

jt9686

New member
23
0
I was always of the opinion that the Whitbread/Volvo should be in one designs built to a brick shithouse standard
Oh? Like this?

http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/

troll_face_160x130.png
You've got it. The only difference would be the Boat. The VOR70 has proved itself as a good design. The keel issues seem to have been sorted but now we are seeing delaminated hulls and masts coming down. The answer to these problems lies not in the fact that there was extremely heavy weather or that a small fitting failed at the spreaders. The answer lies in that the kit was simply not built strongly enough for the conditions they faced. A VOR based one design with better constructional safety margins will not only be cheaper to build but I can see it attracting more entries to the race. Wouldn't it also be nice to see (as with the clipper race), the whole fleet actually arriving at the place they were trying to get to without the need to hitch lifts across half of the oceans on board convenient cargo ships. Things will always break on boats especially when you are pushing to the limit but there is a huge difference between managable breakeages and unmanagable destruction occurring in some of the most inhospitable corners of the planet. The VOR needs a serious rethink. Not only for the safety of the crews, but in the damage occurring to sponsorship in the future. Some of these companys will pull out in the future, not because of monetary problems, but for the simple fact that when the circus comes to town they want to see the whole troupe of trapeze artists peforming at full swing and not sitting around the ring doing nothing because the trapeze rope broke.

+1 If they built a VOR70 One Design with Hull and Spars being built to strict OD standards, great. The sails and the instrument package/on board computers would be the difference. They could even go one more step and require the crews to rotate boats after each leg. Ask any college sailer, it's not hard to win in the hot boat, it's limiting the damange when you have the brick.

Actually, like this:

http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/assets/Uploads/_resampled/croppedimage723371-Clipper3.jpg

croppedimage723371-Clipper3.jpg


 
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ryley

Super Anarchist
5,545
682
Boston, MA
You guys are idiots. The old way is the best way attitude. With your thinking we would still be driving around in horse and buggys. This is a balls to wall race in hard conditions and stuff breaks. They are professional crews and know how to manage risk and that includes doing the right thing when the boat breaks. Look at the milages the boats are doing, these distances would have been considered multi-hull speeds not too long ago.

Its an ocean race, the fastest boat wins, it is not a match race in one designs.
This ocean race has claimed lives in the past, and it will again in the future. You're right, stuff breaks. But bows? 3 out of 6 rigs? delamination of what should be about the most solid part of the hull? I was pretty convinced after leg 1 that these boats weren't ready for the southern ocean, and guess what? GP4 dropped their mast in flat seas and about 20knots, about the time you'd be thinking this is what the boat excels at. The boat dictates the gear you're in - if you're an experienced crew and you feel the boat whining about a gear, you shift. But these guys are never going to shift unless the boat is complaining they should - hardly ever does it seem they made a proactive change.

One can't engineer safety factors into hulls and rigs to accomodate the forces experienced when launching a 70 footer off the top of the wave at 30+ kts. It is what it is and the racers understand they are risking their lives. What's the alternative? Fetzer24 has it nailed!
So if your statement is true, wouldn't the logical thing be to not design a boat that leaps off a wave at 30+ knots? It's not like you can't predict what the conditions will be/could be/have been in the most treacherous places on earth. It's like driving a Volkswagen bus at 120mph all the time. Can it get to that speed? Maybe, downhill, with a tailwind, but if you push it like that it is going to break. Maybe it comes down to the designers needing to protect these amazing, ambitious crews from themselves. Forget about the boat breakages, which are bad enough - there is a serious design/box rule/development flaw when crew are regularly injured or washed off the helm doing nothing more than moving around the deck or standing their watches. Lastly, racing boat or no, I'd be seriously pissed off if I sank (heh) this much money into a racing boat that needs significant repair work every 3,000 miles or so.

 

left hook

Super Anarchist
7,473
5
I was always of the opinion that the Whitbread/Volvo should be in one designs built to a brick shithouse standard
Oh? Like this?

http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/

troll_face_160x130.png
You've got it. The only difference would be the Boat. The VOR70 has proved itself as a good design. The keel issues seem to have been sorted but now we are seeing delaminated hulls and masts coming down. The answer to these problems lies not in the fact that there was extremely heavy weather or that a small fitting failed at the spreaders. The answer lies in that the kit was simply not built strongly enough for the conditions they faced. A VOR based one design with better constructional safety margins will not only be cheaper to build but I can see it attracting more entries to the race. Wouldn't it also be nice to see (as with the clipper race), the whole fleet actually arriving at the place they were trying to get to without the need to hitch lifts across half of the oceans on board convenient cargo ships. Things will always break on boats especially when you are pushing to the limit but there is a huge difference between managable breakeages and unmanagable destruction occurring in some of the most inhospitable corners of the planet. The VOR needs a serious rethink. Not only for the safety of the crews, but in the damage occurring to sponsorship in the future. Some of these companys will pull out in the future, not because of monetary problems, but for the simple fact that when the circus comes to town they want to see the whole troupe of trapeze artists peforming at full swing and not sitting around the ring doing nothing because the trapeze rope broke.

+1 If they built a VOR70 One Design with Hull and Spars being built to strict OD standards, great. The sails and the instrument package/on board computers would be the difference. They could even go one more step and require the crews to rotate boats after each leg. Ask any college sailer, it's not hard to win in the hot boat, it's limiting the damange when you have the brick.

Actually, like this:

http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/assets/Uploads/_resampled/croppedimage723371-Clipper3.jpg

croppedimage723371-Clipper3.jpg
I wanted you to be kidding....SO much with that photo... why did it have to be real!?

http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/sign-up/clipper-70/

 

KRC

Super Anarchist
2,876
6
Seattle, WA
I was always of the opinion that the Whitbread/Volvo should be in one designs built to a brick shithouse standard and that the Americas Cup should be the place for off the wall experimentism. My opinions still hold. For a long distance against all the odds race let the crews win and not the speculating designer who cuts corners in losing a few pounds here and there to gain that extra knot in conditions the boat is unlikely to see. The AC is the place for experiments where. if they go wrong, see the crews safe and with backup. Those same AC innovations will filter down to the new generations of ocean racers without the need to put crews lives at any more risk than they already have by simply participating in such a race as the VOR
+1
+2. I get my RTW-box-rule-demolition-derby fix from Vendee, V5O, BWR, etc...We've got plenty of that.

Give me a nice solid OD boat where, each leg, I can say "I hope my favorite team finishes first" instead of "I hope my favorite team finishes." A one-design rule that limits the extremism of designs would slash the R&D costs, which would have two added benefits: 1.) Teams with the cash can funnel that extra money to the builders for a (more) solidly built boat, and 2.) Reduced cost = more teams. Don't know when that's ever been a bad thing.

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the only race that gives trophies to the shore crews. Not saying they aren't deserved, but sometimes in this race it seems like they have it harder than the sailors.

 
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RumLine

Anarchist
943
40
Western LIS
You guys are idiots. The old way is the best way attitude. With your thinking we would still be driving around in horse and buggys. This is a balls to wall race in hard conditions and stuff breaks. They are professional crews and know how to manage risk and that includes doing the right thing when the boat breaks. Look at the milages the boats are doing, these distances would have been considered multi-hull speeds not too long ago.

Its an ocean race, the fastest boat wins, it is not a match race in one designs.
Actually, I think you're the idiot. In my opinion, the only boats that should be permitted to finish are the ones that don't touch shore or receive assistance between the starting line and the finish line. In order to do that these boats need to be made a whole lot stronger.

An alternative, in my opinion, would be employing a team of engineers to design self-healing materials that could be utilized underwater. The trouble as I see it is finding a compound that will harden under water while maintaining a smooth shape. This would obviously only be an option for hull damage, as I don't think it would really work for the stress on the spars. The current smart materials that are readily available don't have any load bearing qualities, which means that in it's current state it could really only be used as an outer layer, and the hull itself would need to be strong enough to support the wear and tear that comes with crashing down waves. Regardless, this will solve a majority of the hull related issues that the teams have faced over the past few legs.

NASA is exploring it for use in space and other applications. One test was on tanker trucks, which is similar to the application I'm suggesting, but obviously in a more controlled environment (land).


 

blackjenner

Super Anarchist
One can't engineer safety factors into hulls and rigs to accomodate the forces experienced when launching a 70 footer off the top of the wave at 30+ kts. It is what it is and the racers understand they are risking their lives. What's the alternative? Fetzer24 has it nailed!
Yes you can. It just has to be a priority.

 

K38BOB

Super Anarchist
4,474
2
Bay Area
One can't engineer safety factors into hulls and rigs to accomodate the forces experienced when launching a 70 footer off the top of the wave at 30+ kts. It is what it is and the racers understand they are risking their lives. What's the alternative? Fetzer24 has it nailed!
Yes you can. It just has to be a priority.
35+ knots. Would be an interesting Groupama interview to compare and contrast .. no?

Previous Jules Verne winner




Seemed to have sorted out the inversion and breakage things

 
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left hook

Super Anarchist
7,473
5
I wanted you to be kidding....SO much with that photo... why did it have to be real!?

http://www.clipperro...-up/clipper-70/
What is wrong with it? Looks pretty cool to me.
Agreed. The Clipper people are probably patting themselves on the back with this one. I'm sure spots for 13-14 are filling at an incredible rate as people want to emulate what the Volvo sailors are doing. Looks a lot like a friendlier evolution of a 05-06 design.

 
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