And then there was one...

K38BOB

Super Anarchist
4,474
2
Bay Area
I wanted you to be kidding....SO much with that photo... why did it have to be real!?

http://www.clipperro...-up/clipper-70/
What is wrong with it? Looks pretty cool to me.
Agreed. The Clipper people are probably patting themselves on the back with this one. I'm sure spots for 13-14 are filling at an incredible rate as people want to emulate what the Volvo sailors are doing. Looks a lot like a friendlier evolution of a 05-06 design.
Even more fun.. have the VOR in those boats with some allowances for instruments etc and have them start an hr or so in front of the B Fleet of weekend warriors...

 

johnnysaint

Super Anarchist
8,514
0
It could be that the Rule has resulted in these fragile boats being built. If the boats were not allowed to "suspend racing" and go somewhere for repairs, (accept outside assistance) then they would have to be built strong enough to finish a race.

It's easy to see why the "suspend racing" rule was created. Otherwise by now there might only be one boat left "racing".

 

K38BOB

Super Anarchist
4,474
2
Bay Area
It could be that the Rule has resulted in these fragile boats being built. If the boats were not allowed to "suspend racing" and go somewhere for repairs, (accept outside assistance) then they would have to be built strong enough to finish a race.

It's easy to see why the "suspend racing" rule was created. Otherwise by now there might only be one boat left "racing".
Good point

WIKI- JV

Rules

  • Propulsion of the boat must solely be by natural forces of the wind and of the crew.
  • The Jules Verne trophy is open to any type of boat with no restrictions.
  • Crew size is not restricted.
  • The circumnavigation must be completed non-stop and with no physical outside assistance.
  • Challengers must respect safety rules.

 

RumLine

Anarchist
943
40
Western LIS
I'm glad the new rules limit the number of masts and rudders you can build, those seem to be holding up really well and I wouldn't want any team to have the advantage by having more than one mast to break.

So did the effects of "reducing the budgets" by limiting equipment and preventing two boat programs totally come out in Leg 5 where we might only have two boats actually finish? Not to mention only having one boat sail continuously from start to finish?

Did the inability to test the boats potential encourage risky behavior, knowing that they could always just make a pit stop at the closest piece of dirt?


 

eliboat

Super Anarchist
2,330
723
I think a lot of the hul related issues can be traced to shitty construction. A bit funny that Azzam's construction was hailed as the most amazing thing since sliced bread in last months SH, and barely after the ink had dried they had a bulkhead come clean out of the boat, and then later have major skin delamination in a manner that can really only be attributed to a problem with construction. The fact is that these boats are actually fairly heavily built, despite what most people think here and what the general assumptions are, the scantlings and requirements for VO70's are quite a bit heaver than what you would find on a mini maxi or other type of program that is outside of RTW racing. Other boats are designed to meet ISO, GL or other type certifications and they're usually checked against the old ABS rules for Offshore yachts. Knowing this and knowing that the VO70's are required to meet stiffer requirements makes me think that someone needs to paying more attention on the shop floor. I don't think the recent spat of issues completely absolves the designers here, but I will say that a lot of the issues appear as if they were avoidable from a QC standpoint. Remember the first race with the 70's and the Farr boats had their keel boxes almost exploding from hydraulic pressure as well as titanium pins failing on the canting mechanisms...this was clear design failure. Skins delaminating on an easily engineered panel when designed to a conservative rule and bulkheads just popping off are build errors. I'm not sure where I would place rig failures that come down to one part or another in the system failing (usually not the spar itself) . They coud be design issues, ie, the termination design for shrouds could be inadequate, or they could be poorly built etc.

 

gusmus

Super Anarchist
I think a lot of the hul related issues can be traced to shitty construction. A bit funny that Azzam's construction was hailed as the most amazing thing since sliced bread in last months SH, and barely after the ink had dried they had a bulkhead come clean out of the boat, and then later have major skin delamination in a manner that can really only be attributed to a problem with construction. The fact is that these boats are actually fairly heavily built, despite what most people think here and what the general assumptions are, the scantlings and requirements for VO70's are quite a bit heaver than what you would find on a mini maxi or other type of program that is outside of RTW racing. Other boats are designed to meet ISO, GL or other type certifications and they're usually checked against the old ABS rules for Offshore yachts. Knowing this and knowing that the VO70's are required to meet stiffer requirements makes me think that someone needs to paying more attention on the shop floor. I don't think the recent spat of issues completely absolves the designers here, but I will say that a lot of the issues appear as if they were avoidable from a QC standpoint. Remember the first race with the 70's and the Farr boats had their keel boxes almost exploding from hydraulic pressure as well as titanium pins failing on the canting mechanisms...this was clear design failure. Skins delaminating on an easily engineered panel when designed to a conservative rule and bulkheads just popping off are build errors. I'm not sure where I would place rig failures that come down to one part or another in the system failing (usually not the spar itself) . They coud be design issues, ie, the termination design for shrouds could be inadequate, or they could be poorly built etc.
I'm sorry Eliboat but when a 70 foot boat with a 17 foot beam weighs in at 12 and a half tons including a whopping 7 and a half tons for the fin and keel there is no way on earth you can deem that to be heavily built. I don't care if it's been built out of kevlar, carbon, or pulverised moonbeams. That is a very lightly built boat by any standards and obviously too lightly built for the purpose otherwise we wouldn't be seeing all of these structural failures. The argument will always be " The spectacle of these machines". There is no spectacle apart from the port races and these are normally over in an hour or so. The rest of the time they could be sailing tricked out optimists for all we know because the spectator is limited to following a virtual dot on a virtual chart and the only spectacle involved is in shouting to your wife "Hey, Pumas dot has been hitting 35Kn for the last 3 hours". Your other argument that the problems lie in manufacturing or design faults basically bolster the original argument put forward in that the sum of all components are being too lightly built. There is no built in redundancy therefor you take away the large safety factor of seamanship (sailors are notorious fixer-uppers) and hope for fine weather. That's fine for belting around a bouyed course with a couple of support boats in attendance but to my mind it has absolutely no place at all in a hell for leather endurance race around the globe. Give the boats some extra beef and maybe lose a few knots at the top end because I'm pretty certain that no one will notice or even care since we'll likely see the same fleet which set off reaching their destination in one piece. This is after all a yacht race and not a destruction derby.

 
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Flaming

Anarchist
623
235
UK
To those advocating an OD race, it has of course been tried before with the Grand Mistral race.

They actually built 6 80 foot boats - sort of turbo charged VO60s - in 1996 but couldn't get the teams interested. So they never raced, which was a shame as they would have been pretty cool for the time in the Southern Ocean.

 

mr_ryano

Super Anarchist
I was always of the opinion that the Whitbread/Volvo should be in one designs built to a brick shithouse standard
Oh? Like this?

http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/

troll_face_160x130.png
You've got it. The only difference would be the Boat. The VOR70 has proved itself as a good design. The keel issues seem to have been sorted but now we are seeing delaminated hulls and masts coming down. The answer to these problems lies not in the fact that there was extremely heavy weather or that a small fitting failed at the spreaders. The answer lies in that the kit was simply not built strongly enough for the conditions they faced. A VOR based one design with better constructional safety margins will not only be cheaper to build but I can see it attracting more entries to the race. Wouldn't it also be nice to see (as with the clipper race), the whole fleet actually arriving at the place they were trying to get to without the need to hitch lifts across half of the oceans on board convenient cargo ships. Things will always break on boats especially when you are pushing to the limit but there is a huge difference between managable breakeages and unmanagable destruction occurring in some of the most inhospitable corners of the planet. The VOR needs a serious rethink. Not only for the safety of the crews, but in the damage occurring to sponsorship in the future. Some of these companys will pull out in the future, not because of monetary problems, but for the simple fact that when the circus comes to town they want to see the whole troupe of trapeze artists peforming at full swing and not sitting around the ring doing nothing because the trapeze rope broke.
Ross Field had an interesting comment that the ice zones forced the fleet to sail in bad conditions. He contends that if there were no ice limits, all boats would have went deep south to escape the sea state and they'd all still be racing......

 
You guys are idiots. The old way is the best way attitude. With your thinking we would still be driving around in horse and buggys. This is a balls to wall race in hard conditions and stuff breaks. They are professional crews and know how to manage risk and that includes doing the right thing when the boat breaks. Look at the milages the boats are doing, these distances would have been considered multi-hull speeds not too long ago.

Its an ocean race, the fastest boat wins, it is not a match race in one designs.
+1

 
They ruined the race by kissing the butts of the money countries and that was bad enough.

Now only one boat left fully intact. I guess Telefonica is still in the hunt and gaining on Puma by leaps and bounds, sailing over a knot faster as I type this. But Tele has probs too, right?

As a buddy of mine said this morning: "The way things are turning out you would have had a pretty good chance of winning this edition of the race if you had entered a Swan 65, not to mention saving a truckload of $$$$!!"
I know a bloke who sailed the Whitbread on a Swan called Berge Viking, said they broached every hour for a week in the southern ocean…boat held together but the crew were beat up, requiring stitches etc. think I would prefer the VOR 70 to that shit!

I feel the design is a huge part of the race, look at what Peter Blake went through to get a win, Ceramco arguably the first of the light displacement boats to race, which broke the stick before Capetown to Lion which was so over built it wasn’t fast enough to compete. Isn’t this what the race is about?

 

bljones

Super Anarchist
1,431
0
CA
You guys are idiots. The old way is the best way attitude. With your thinking we would still be driving around in horse and buggys. This is a balls to wall race in hard conditions and stuff breaks. They are professional crews and know how to manage risk and that includes doing the right thing when the boat breaks. Look at the milages the boats are doing, these distances would have been considered multi-hull speeds not too long ago.

Its an ocean race, the fastest boat wins, it is not a match race in one designs.
You gotta finish to win.

 




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