Annapolis YC Double handed distance race

[Reference]

Great turn out for AYC's Double handed distance race tomorrow.  Nearly double from last year, with 37 entries and an interesting mix of sports boats and bigger racer/cruisers.

Scratch sheet here:  https://yachtscoring.com/event_scratch_sheet.cfm?eID=11749

Start at 1200 Sat, tracker link here: http://yb.tl/dhdr2020

 

[robalex117]

Great turn out for AYC's Double handed distance race tomorrow.  Nearly double from last year, with 37 entries and an interesting mix of sports boats and bigger racer/cruisers.

Scratch sheet here:  https://yachtscoring.com/event_scratch_sheet.cfm?eID=11749

Start at 1200 Sat, tracker link here: http://yb.tl/dhdr2020

Thanks for the handy links.  Bumed I am not making it but it would have been a 250 delivery and just could not swing it.  Next year!  

A boat sailed down from newport which is about 340m so good for them.  But those guys are 1/2 my age!

Curious what people feel about AIS transmitting on these races.  I assume this is a cat 2 race so transponders are probably not required but for races on Long Island Sound some are a Cat 3 which is a stretch but that is what they are calling them for going out of LIS.  

Anyway the Cat 3 rules are you need a transponder but the rules are not clear if you have to have it on!   I think I know the intent.

Personally I think the SI should mandate you actually transmit.  I know there was some sort of issue with Wild Oats in the Hobart for not transmitting.  It is a big issue, think about the volvo race and what the rules are.  It is an advantage to be dark.

Not going to name boats but the funny thing was during they day when you could see them they were transmitting and at night they went dark. 

Yes there is a tracker but it is not the same as almost real time data from AIS.

So what do you think!  Do you have to transmit or can you go dark.  

 

[Reference]

We're required to carry transponders that send every 30 minutes; AIS is not required.  It's a full moon, so boats should be somewhat visible out there even without AIS. 

 

[robalex117]

We're required to carry transponders that send every 30 minutes; AIS is not required.  It's a full moon, so boats should be somewhat visible out there even without AIS. 

Well the YB sending every 30 minutes will be good for us armchair sailors!  Anybody know if that is the normal setting for YB or some races delay it even more?

 

[Reference]

Should update immediately, at least it was when i tested the tracker earlier.

 

[Roleur]

Well the YB sending every 30 minutes will be good for us armchair sailors!  Anybody know if that is the normal setting for YB or some races delay it even more?

YB can adjust the update frequency.  Mostly depends on the length of the race.  Longer race, longer intervals to preserve battery life.  

 

[solosailor]

Not a fan of trackers.   Sail your own damm race making your own navigation decisions.

 

[robalex117]

Not a fan of trackers.   Sail your own damm race making your own navigation decisions.

Understand.  So you are not a fan.  

But what do you do when you sail in Cat 3 races regarding AIS transponders?  We keep ours on.

 

[solosailor]

There are no ocean races here that require a "tracker"(not AIS) except the real distance races like Hawaii, Mexico, Longpac.  Don't know of one that requires AIS but could be wrong.

 

[Alaris]

There are no ocean races here that require a "tracker"(not AIS) except the real distance races like Hawaii, Mexico, Longpac.  Don't know of one that requires AIS but could be wrong.

Most of the east coast races require a tracker:

Newport to Bermuda: “Satellite phones, GPS trackers, AIS transponders and SSB receivers are required equipment for the race.”

Annapolis to Bermuda: “Boats shall carry a GPS tracking device supplied by the OA.”

Annapolis to Newport: “Each boat is required to carry a GPS transponder, supplied by the OA.”

 

[jackolantern]

Understand.  So you are not a fan.  

But what do you do when you sail in Cat 3 races regarding AIS transponders?  We keep ours on.

It's a good idea to carry an all-chain anchor rode, a sextant in case your GPS goes down, and 1000 flares in case your boat starts sinking. All of those things are heavy and correspondingly slow you down, or speed your competitors up in comparison if they don't carry them. 

I wouldn't broadcast exactly whether I was headed or lifted to a boat on the other side of a course in a buoy race. I wouldn't want to show my boatspeed in a puff or lull to my competitors on a buoy race. If one boat is broadcasting AIS during a buoy race, should the entire fleet be shame for not doing so if it isn't in the rules?

Until 1/1/24, turning on your AIS when it is not required is unilateral disarmament that can only be used against you by your competitors. Until I am required to do so, holding myself to a higher standard than required in a way that can only disadvantage me is deliberately undervaluing the skill and talent of a navigator and the hard work put in by your crew to sail the boat hard.

 

[robalex117]

Let me try to get is back to my original question.  (First let me say I can live with our without AIS on races but just want to follow the rules.) Also sorry to the original poster for this thread drift,  but what else is new for SA.

Cat3 races which are races in the ocean, US Sailing rules say you need a transponder.  Now I guess those "RULES" are just recommendations since it seams a lot of races don't actually say you need them or enforce using them.  But for instance the Hobart race you have to have it and use it.  

See link to the document I am talking about below. 

So my question is:  are these just recommendations and you don't need to follow them.  I don't think so since  the Stamford Vineyard race says it is a Cat 3 which means you have to carry a life raft and everybody does even though most would say it is unnecessary and an added expense.    Cat 3 also says you need a transponder.

Main page showing documents.  https://www.ussailing.org/competition/offshore/safety-information/ser-world-sailing-special-regulations/

Link to actual document.  https://cdn.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Monohull-SER-2020.0.xlsx

 

[Starboard!!]

So my question is:  are these just recommendations and you don't need to follow them.  I don't think so since  the Stamford Vineyard race says it is a Cat 3 which means you have to carry a life raft and everybody does even though most would say it is unnecessary and an added expense.    Cat 3 also says you need a transponder.

No, these safety requirements are not just “recommendations.”  Each of these races will have a very specific SER list and often pre-race inspections, and winners should be prepared for a post-race inspection too.   

I don’t think you are going to find a one-size-fits-all answe her, you really need to examine the race NOR and see what safety & equipment is required — there will be a list. Do you really want to be that guy who gets DSQ’d for missing equipment in a post-race inspection, after spending days offshore and tens of thousands prepping the boat?

 

[Reference]

As the saying goes, if you want to keep a secret from racers, put it in the SIs...

 

[Roleur]

Oh, and speaking of the race...  Some interesting results:

A J/105 was first overall on corrected time (ORC).  They finished pretty close to a J/120, X4.3, and Figaro 3 on the water.  They raced in the one-design class, but we can extrapolate their finish time and the ratings applied to the two J/105's that weren't in the OD class because they weren't a mixed gender crew.  

From the new crop of shorthanded designs there were 2 Figaro 3's, an L30, a Dehler 30, and a SunFast 3600.  There was also a GP26 and two Italia 9.98's.  Just ranking these boats in the overall it went like this:

Italia 9.98 (2nd OA behind the J/105)

GP26

L30

Dehler 30 - This boat was launched Wednesday before the 3, so the fact they made it around the 100nm course was pretty good right there.  

Italia 9.98

Figaro 3

Figaro 3 - We were on a J/105 and they passed us at about mile 60.  They started 10 minutes in front of us.  

SunFast 3600

I'll repeat one of my original feelings about most of the new designs.  They are not targeting light air venues, which to be fair are far more common than windy race locations.  Not everyone sails in the English Channel.  

Winds were mostly 3-10 knots with a lot of reaching, some just cracked off, some very close reaching with a kite.  Basically no VMG running, which might have helped these newer boats that tend to have decent size masthead kites.  

Great race though.  Relatively easy as overnighters go.  Full moon, clear skies, medium breeze all night, and flat water at night.  

 

[Swimsailor]

Oh, and speaking of the race...  Some interesting results:

A J/105 was first overall on corrected time (ORC).  They finished pretty close to a J/120, X4.3, and Figaro 3 on the water.  They raced in the one-design class, but we can extrapolate their finish time and the ratings applied to the two J/105's that weren't in the OD class because they weren't a mixed gender crew.  

From the new crop of shorthanded designs there were 2 Figaro 3's, an L30, a Dehler 30, and a SunFast 3600.  There was also a GP26 and two Italia 9.98's.  Just ranking these boats in the overall it went like this:

Italia 9.98 (2nd OA behind the J/105)

GP26

L30

Dehler 30 - This boat was launched Wednesday before the 3, so the fact they made it around the 100nm course was pretty good right there.  

Italia 9.98

Figaro 3

Figaro 3 - We were on a J/105 and they passed us at about mile 60.  They started 10 minutes in front of us.  

SunFast 3600

I'll repeat one of my original feelings about most of the new designs.  They are not targeting light air venues, which to be fair are far more common than windy race locations.  Not everyone sails in the English Channel.  

Winds were mostly 3-10 knots with a lot of reaching, some just cracked off, some very close reaching with a kite.  Basically no VMG running, which might have helped these newer boats that tend to have decent size masthead kites.  

Great race though.  Relatively easy as overnighters go.  Full moon, clear skies, medium breeze all night, and flat water at night.  

Why did you not include the Farr 30?

 

[Roleur]

Why did you not include the Farr 30?

Only because it is not a new design with a double-handed focus. If I was strict I wouldn't have included the GP26 either.  The fact the Farr 30 crossed the line ahead of all of the above mentioned boats except one Figaro 3, sort makes my point, that the new designs are oddly not particularly fast, particularly in light air.  

 

[Swimsailor]

Only because it is not a new design with a double-handed focus. If I was strict I wouldn't have included the GP26 either.  The fact the Farr 30 crossed the line ahead of all of the above mentioned boats except one Figaro 3, sort makes my point, that the new designs are oddly not particularly fast, particularly in light air.  

For arguments sake, I don't think the Italia was designed as a shorthander either.  But your point is well taken.  The new crop of shorthanders are designed with big wind reaching in mind, overbuilt for overnighters in the Chesapeake for sure.  For what it's worth, Bully Circus has been put together really well and sailed by an outstanding crew.  A lot of work went into making her race ready and be there for the start.

 

[Roleur]

Quick video from this year's race.  We have the red kite.

https://www.ussailing.org/news/mixed-dh-distance-race-annapolis/