Another keel goes astray...French sailor survives 16 hours in an air bubble inside his capsized boat off Spain

Israel Hands

Super Anarchist
3,193
1,877
coastal NC
Small boats have smaller mass - so any impact can be can throw the whole boat around, spreading the impact forces around more of the structure. And being smaller, have less chance of running aground or hitting any UFO's

Some racing rules require a ceertain sq footage of orange paint on the underbodies for rescue visibility. Has nothing to do with structures.
But mass and attendant stresses scale…

Edit- so that suggests that the larger boats didn’t scale their fastener/material design
 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
70,155
13,310
Great Wet North
One without knowledge about sailing as sport would think this is more common than what it is:
yandy284875.jpg

19264514_823558467830600_6905101242847971113_o.jpg
It may not be common but it is still too common.

It should be virtually unheard of, not the "here we go again" sort of thing it has become.
 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
70,155
13,310
Great Wet North
Prior to Drum, our oceans were not populated by semi submerged containers.
People still hit stuff and retained their keels.

A couple of big stories BITD were the Bailys and the Robertsons hitting whales and sinking - their old wooden hulls were stove in but the keels stayed on - all the way to the bottom.
 

longy

Overlord of Anarchy
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1,293
San Diego
Yes, things do scale. But I think with larger structures it's easier to have smaller 'overbuilds' due to using normal off the shelf stuff. IE, it's easier to reduce/taper out laminates, use bolts that are closer to design spec etc. Same reasons any 'metal (steel or alloy) can't compete with GRP (of any type) until a certain size is reached.
But mass and attendant stresses scale…

Edit- so that suggests that the larger boats didn’t scale their fastener/material design
 

nota

Anarchist
I would love to see a sail boat designed to be worked on
imagine that a boat designed to allow corroded bits be accessed
like keel bolts the Tee top flange allow a simple short bolt
set into the flange with a non expensive nut eazy to remove inspect and replace no X-rays or cranes needed
 

solosailor

Super Anarchist
4,217
915
San Francisco Bay

"I had 30 cm of air but I only thought about living"​

Quit different from the "who they found wearing a neoprene survival suit and submerged in water up to his knees" from the rescuers who went inside. But hey, if you survive an inverted hull in the ocean I guess you can embellish a bit.... probably felt that way.
 

nota

Anarchist
in a large frankie size boat I wonder the difference in cost of her alloy ''grid''
vs the french boats grid of popoff f/g to make and install

and the costs of repair after a major grounding for each type
or whole tree log hit or container
 

longy

Overlord of Anarchy
7,011
1,293
San Diego
FRANKIES keel support system probably an order of magnitude more than a pre fab grid. Full custom, one off construction, many individual bits to assemble properly. And the PNW is known for UFO's in abundance.
Could a production boat be built to the same standard? Of course, but price point will go up also. X Yachts, Swan have long had metal structures holding keel structures. Lower price point builders don't. Pay your money, take your chances.

Same with impact damage - pay now or pay later? What is your personal probability of hitting something? How good is your insurance coverage? Eveyone's got their own risk tolerance levels/evaluations. You can have a deep bulb keel on a miniscule strut or you can have a full keel. Your choice
 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
11,076
2,710
My only take from this is to ask what the hell the point of the escape hatch is on a Class 40? Is it just life raft storage?
 
if my amateur ideas were used the whole square bit would be the attachment points area to spread the load over an area that allows the keel to stay in place
That’s potentially a better way to do it but if everything is “right” you don’t need it and that adds weight and makes it so you can’t drop the keel for putting the boat in a shed frequently and put the keel back in again without fairing and paint each time.

With 9ft draft, dropping the keel for land storage begins to make a lot of sense.

I’m beginning to think canting keel attachments might be lower risk. Sure you have to make sure the Ram doesn’t break or leak as the keel swinging around has caused boats to be abandoned but the GIANT pivot pin captured in the boat does seem like a lower risk connection and a lighter bulb weight with that setup can’t hurt.

But then I guess you need dagger boards which leads to foils and more expenses and more potential problems elsewhere.

No free lunch on highly optimized, highly stressed designs.
 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
70,155
13,310
Great Wet North
I would love to see a sail boat designed to be worked on
imagine that a boat designed to allow corroded bits be accessed
like keel bolts the Tee top flange allow a simple short bolt
set into the flange with a non expensive nut eazy to remove inspect and replace no X-rays or cranes needed
Buy a Cal 20 or a Thunderbird.
 

Ex Machina

Super Anarchist
1,236
555
New Zealand
so why the big orange square if the keel is only bolted up it a stupid narrow line along the thin center bit

if my amateur ideas were used the whole square bit would be the attachment points area to spread the load over an area that allows the keel to stay in place
I’m assuming the square acts as a replacement for a distress signal sheet so it’S easily visible from the air
 




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