Assassin moth price jump

I was just looking at the assassin moth site and noticed they've changed it and there's now a 'chose your weapon' section which tells you the Prices and specs of the two models (GRS and SS). All the specs are the same as before but now instead of the normal assassin foils it has the high modulus foils. Now the prices have now jumped from NZ$13000 for the SS to NZ$18300, and NZ$13700 for the GRS to NZ$18990. Is this price jump of about $5000 just because of the foils? this is about AU$14400 (SS) and AU$15000 (GRS).

Sure it's still a competitive price and the foils are important on a moth but to me they've lost the look of extremely good value. They may have also lost the group of people who were going to home build but were considering buying an assassin instead because it's about the same amount of money. Do the people Who ordered one before this change get the boat with the new foils for the original prices? What do you guys think?

Here's the link:

Chose your weapon

 

marcelsailor

Member
53
0
well whats there now, that wasnt before, is the foils (as you said) but also free shipping and a free speedpuck. But surely they wouldnt be free if the prices went up.

Another consideration would be the effect that the assassin is currently having. It is ruining the resell value of any Bladerider/Prowler, for example a week ago I sold a second hand bladerider, but it had lost 5,200 Aus Dollars of value, because the buyer said if I didnt go down in price he would just buy an assassin for less.

So I think Assassin have noticed that they are ruining the market for these boats, and could be raising their prices just slightly to level things out a bit.

 

FishAintBiting

Anarchist
549
0
well whats there now, that wasnt before, is the foils (as you said) but also free shipping and a free speedpuck. But surely they wouldnt be free if the prices went up.Another consideration would be the effect that the assassin is currently having. It is ruining the resell value of any Bladerider/Prowler, for example a week ago I sold a second hand bladerider, but it had lost 5,200 Aus Dollars of value, because the buyer said if I didnt go down in price he would just buy an assassin for less.

So I think Assassin have noticed that they are ruining the market for these boats, and could be raising their prices just slightly to level things out a bit.
There could be another way to look at this and that is that Assassin are now determining exactly what price the public will pay for their product. If you can increase the differential between your cost and selling prices then your profit margins must rise.

Fish

 

wicked

New member
19
1
Along with covers that were not in the original price.

Take out air freight 900-1100 USD

Cover about 900 USD

Yes there has been a small price increase from the original price, but there are changes be made to the boat to improve the design. In the end I think it is worth the money.

 
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Before, shipping was not included into the price. It is now to any major airport, which in itself is probably over $2000NZ. Also, boat cover and bags are included (which is costing me over $1800NZ), and a speedpuck is $595NZ. Sum that up and you get a $4400NZ price rise.... take note at the bottom of the page tho - AUS and NZ purchasers should get in touch because shipping costs to AUS are far less and non-existant for NZ purchasers.

It's still cheaper than anything else equivalent on the market, and comes with a hell of a lot more kit... standard package now includes all covers (ignoring the fact that BR is currently doing a limited time deal throwing them in with their boats).

FMG

 

teknologika

Anarchist
748
1
So I think Assassin have noticed that they are ruining the market for these boats, and could be raising their prices just slightly to level things out a bit.
I don't think Assassin would be raising prices to keep used boat, or competitors boats values higher. Prices would be determined based on manufacturing cost, expected revenue and ultimately profits.

Performance history and timing also have a big influence on moth resale values.

 

ferrero

Member
92
0
Or it could be that they have just realised how much it actually costs to build moths. Get your orders in now, you havent got long!

 

marcelsailor

Member
53
0
This is what Holly from Assassin had to say about it:

"Its not really a big price jump, the packages come with freight and covers included (and a speedpuck) and also the assassin/holroyd high mod foils. It is still an extremely good deal, one that won't be beaten. For the next month all previous quotes will hold."

 
Not sure any of the main line Moth builders are worried about the second hand market...aka BladeRider setting the price point of the new VRX below that of the old X8, thereby dumping the value of second hand X8s, mostly bought by loyal customers...rant, rant, whine, whine.....

 

nige

Super Anarchist
This is what Holly from Assassin had to say about it:"Its not really a big price jump, the packages come with freight and covers included (and a speedpuck) and also the assassin/holroyd high mod foils. It is still an extremely good deal, one that won't be beaten. For the next month all previous quotes will hold."
I think its a shame they set the price that way. I would prefer to see a competitive moth at the price without shipping/covers/speed puck etc so you can compare apples to apples.

Seems like they have a great product and I think it would be better for them and the class to keep a really attention grabbing price.

 

nige

Super Anarchist
Maybe the first few were loss leaders to get them out there, followed by reality.Still seems cheap if I've done my currency conversions right.
The price has not changed much, they have just put more in the package so I dont think that applies. I personally think the would have done better getting the sailing parts of the boat out the door for the best price and let people add to it. Their covers where expensive and I did not want them etc - same with the speed puck.

 

BHowett

Member
214
0
UK
Ive just been having a look through the website as an ex-mothie with the occasional hankering to get back into the class... what a load of shite. I apreciate the marketing drive behind a project like this but rubbish like this puts me off straight away...

the ideal weight range is 50-100kg
The Ideal wind range is 6-30 knots
 

nige

Super Anarchist
Ive just been having a look through the website as an ex-mothie with the occasional hankering to get back into the class... what a load of shite. I apreciate the marketing drive behind a project like this but rubbish like this puts me off straight away...
the ideal weight range is 50-100kg
The Ideal wind range is 6-30 knots
When I read the site I feel the wording is aimed at sailors wanting to sail a Moth, not racers wanting to win regatta's (Which is where 90% of the sales will go - same for BR). When you read it in that context I think those two quotes are fine as they do sell a mast specifically for that weigh range.

Obviously the proof will be in the pudding and there will be a fair number around pretty soon so we will see how close to reality it all is.

 
This is what Holly from Assassin had to say about it:"Its not really a big price jump, the packages come with freight and covers included (and a speedpuck) and also the assassin/holroyd high mod foils. It is still an extremely good deal, one that won't be beaten. For the next month all previous quotes will hold."
I think its a shame they set the price that way. I would prefer to see a competitive moth at the price without shipping/covers/speed puck etc so you can compare apples to apples.

Seems like they have a great product and I think it would be better for them and the class to keep a really attention grabbing price.
Nige,

Actually, it's closer to comparing oranges with oranges than you might think - let's do the quick side by side comparo:

BR RX (vs Assassin)

Aerospace AS9100 and ISO9001 build standards - This is a first in the boat building industry. (not really... McConnaghy's ISO9001 accredited for it's big boat work IIRC, but even then if you happen to know what ISO9001 is on about, it's not actually that huge of a thing IMHO - but we'll give BR the win there)

Proposed 15kg hull and 35kg all up weight - only slightly heavier than the X8 but much stronger and more robust. (proposed or actual? It's all good proposing but unless something's done about it it's just words. Either way, it's heavier than an assassin but it's really much of a muchness. Draw.)

White gel coat finish - extremely durable and resistant to body impacts. (same... pity only Mach2 is doing clear finishes... they look shmick, and while assassin was talking of having it as an option it has proven to be too heavy so it's off the table)

Simpler carbon tube wing frame - more rigid and more durable. (Take your simple tubes are raise you a one-piece compression structure and a rotating mast post...)

Stiffer 50mm mast - giving more power and better control of the head in the sail. (I'll take the high-mod southern stick thanks...)

Improved sail construction and materials - smoother sail shape and longer lasting. (KA... well nobody's seen the Doyle rig offered as stock with the SS, but everyone's seen the north with the GRS so I think assassin wins)

New FSE Robline ropes - including better colour coding of control lines. (same)

Upgraded Ronstan fittings - including new Orbit mainsheet pulleys. (same)

New lightweight alloy gantry - much stronger and stiffer than the previous carbon version. (carbon tube on assassin - hard to quantify so we'll call it a draw)

New alloy spreaders - unbreakable and easier to rig. (carbon on assassin, probably lighter and definitely more bling factor, but we'll call it a draw for the sake of semantics)

Improved trolley construction - now comes with all new alloy cradles for increased strength. (a trolley is a trolley is a trolley - draw)

Speeds - Similar take off and top speed as the X8. (I won't buy in on this. I'd rather wait until Devin does some racing against Bora. I have requested that when he does this, that both boats carry a GPS and the track be made available.)

Two year warranty - Does your Moth have a two year warranty? (Yes, yes... the assassin does!)

Free shipping to Germany or USA - Meaning that you only have to pay for local road freight to your door. (Take your USA and Germany and raise you to ANY major airport.)

Unbeatable Price - US$13,995 (excludes taxes and import duties) The most affordable and competitive carbon hydrofoil Moth ever made! (So... US$11,888 isn't more affordable, and the hype (if you believe it) is saying the assassin's competitive? And it's less if you're in AUS or NZ?)

Both boats include covers - The RX comes free with hydrofoil covers, top cover, mast cover, boom cover and spreaders cover. (I'd presume that it's just an intro deal though while they get the FX/RX/VRX production built up so that'll be an extra US$465 at some point maybe... Assassin it's included in the price)

Hydrofoils: Black two piece, high-lift pre-preg carbon hydrofoils fitted to pre-preg carbon centerboard and rudder, purpose-designed for lowest drag and maximum lift in speed range 5-26 knots. (Le Shark... Assassin's not the only one with slightly vague marketing; but the weight thing isn't far off. More accutately the competitive weight range is from 60-85 kg but who's counting?)

Shipping Box: Base price includes a reusable shipping box (measuring 350 x 41 x 73cms), that fits everything (including covers and sailing gear) inside. (Assassin same)

Freight: FREE SEA FREIGHT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD!!! (excludes road freight to final desitination) (Free sea freight... well, I think I'd rather run airfreight included in price... quicker delivery that way and you don't then have the whole value + shipping and handling thing that oh so many telemarketers have stung dumbasses with over the years)

Unbeatable Beaten Price: US$13,995 (excludes taxes and import duties) (import duties and taxes are the same for BR, Mach2 and Assassin).

It's still one hell of a deal. Put it this way, a glass BR is US$11,495 with sea freight. If you included air freight on a boat of it's weight it would be more. And that's also without a free GPS, a high-mod skinny mast or a North V10 main.

Please note that I don't like ragging on BR. They're a good bunch of folk and they're still doing good business in a less-than-business-friendly economical climate. Their boats have got a lot of people into moths that otherwise probably wouldn't and they have nurtured the revivial and further building of fleets in the US, NZ, Switzerland, Canada(ish), UAE and Japan. They just happen to provide a very good comparison for your "apples and apples" thing...

 
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nige

Super Anarchist
This is what Holly from Assassin had to say about it:"Its not really a big price jump, the packages come with freight and covers included (and a speedpuck) and also the assassin/holroyd high mod foils. It is still an extremely good deal, one that won't be beaten. For the next month all previous quotes will hold."
I think its a shame they set the price that way. I would prefer to see a competitive moth at the price without shipping/covers/speed puck etc so you can compare apples to apples.

Seems like they have a great product and I think it would be better for them and the class to keep a really attention grabbing price.
Nige,

Actually, it's closer to comparing oranges with oranges than you might think - let's do the quick side by side comparo:

BR RX (vs Assassin)

Aerospace AS9100 and ISO9001 build standards - This is a first in the boat building industry. (not really... McConnaghy's ISO9001 accredited for it's big boat work IIRC, but even then if you happen to know what ISO9001 is on about, it's not actually that huge of a thing IMHO - but we'll give BR the win there)

Proposed 15kg hull and 35kg all up weight - only slightly heavier than the X8 but much stronger and more robust. (proposed or actual? It's all good proposing but unless something's done about it it's just words. Either way, it's heavier than an assassin but it's really much of a muchness. Draw.)

White gel coat finish - extremely durable and resistant to body impacts. (same... pity only Mach2 is doing clear finishes... they look shmick, and while assassin was talking of having it as an option it has proven to be too heavy so it's off the table)

Simpler carbon tube wing frame - more rigid and more durable. (Take your simple tubes are raise you a one-piece compression structure and a rotating mast post...)

Stiffer 50mm mast - giving more power and better control of the head in the sail. (I'll take the high-mod southern stick thanks...)

Improved sail construction and materials - smoother sail shape and longer lasting. (KA... well nobody's seen the Doyle rig offered as stock with the SS, but everyone's seen the north with the GRS so I think assassin wins)

New FSE Robline ropes - including better colour coding of control lines. (same)

Upgraded Ronstan fittings - including new Orbit mainsheet pulleys. (same)

New lightweight alloy gantry - much stronger and stiffer than the previous carbon version. (carbon tube on assassin - hard to quantify so we'll call it a draw)

New alloy spreaders - unbreakable and easier to rig. (carbon on assassin, probably lighter and definitely more bling factor, but we'll call it a draw for the sake of semantics)

Improved trolley construction - now comes with all new alloy cradles for increased strength. (a trolley is a trolley is a trolley - draw)

Speeds - Similar take off and top speed as the X8. (I won't buy in on this. I'd rather wait until Devin does some racing against Bora. I have requested that when he does this, that both boats carry a GPS and the track be made available.)

Two year warranty - Does your Moth have a two year warranty? (Yes, yes... the assassin does!)

Free shipping to Germany or USA - Meaning that you only have to pay for local road freight to your door. (Take your USA and Germany and raise you to ANY major airport.)

Unbeatable Price - US$13,995 (excludes taxes and import duties) The most affordable and competitive carbon hydrofoil Moth ever made! (So... US$11,888 isn't more affordable, and the hype (if you believe it) is saying the assassin's competitive? And it's less if you're in AUS or NZ?)

Both boats include covers - The RX comes free with hydrofoil covers, top cover, mast cover, boom cover and spreaders cover. (I'd presume that it's just an intro deal though while they get the FX/RX/VRX production built up so that'll be an extra US$465 at some point maybe... Assassin it's included in the price)

Hydrofoils: Black two piece, high-lift pre-preg carbon hydrofoils fitted to pre-preg carbon centerboard and rudder, purpose-designed for lowest drag and maximum lift in speed range 5-26 knots. (Le Shark... Assassin's not the only one with slightly vague marketing; but the weight thing isn't far off. More accutately the competitive weight range is from 60-85 kg but who's counting?)

Shipping Box: Base price includes a reusable shipping box (measuring 350 x 41 x 73cms), that fits everything (including covers and sailing gear) inside. (Assassin same)

Freight: FREE SEA FREIGHT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD!!! (excludes road freight to final desitination) (Free sea freight... well, I think I'd rather run airfreight included in price... quicker delivery that way and you don't then have the whole value + shipping and handling thing that oh so many telemarketers have stung dumbasses with over the years)

Unbeatable Beaten Price: US$13,995 (excludes taxes and import duties) (import duties and taxes are the same for BR, Mach2 and Assassin).

It's still one hell of a deal. Put it this way, a glass BR is US$11,495 with sea freight. If you included air freight on a boat of it's weight it would be more. And that's also without a free GPS, a high-mod skinny mast or a North V10 main.

Please note that I don't like ragging on BR. They're a good bunch of folk and they're still doing good business in a less-than-business-friendly economical climate. Their boats have got a lot of people into moths that otherwise probably wouldn't and they have nurtured the revivial and further building of fleets in the US, NZ, Switzerland, Canada(ish), UAE and Japan. They just happen to provide a very good comparison for your "apples and apples" thing...
I never said they where hard to compare, I just think they are missing an opportunity to advertise a REAL and great price by throwing the fluff in there. Stick to keeping the shipping in, drop the covers and the speed puck and you have a ready to race Moth for a 40% discount over the VRX etc.

I want to see this low price as its what will get more people buying the boats, keeping the same value but at a higher price wont. Dont make people buy what they dont need. Cut out the fluff and focus on the differentiators etc.

 
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F18 Sailor

Super Anarchist
2,679
256
Annapolis, MD
I never said the where hard to compare, I just think they are missing an opportunity to advertise a REAL and great price by throwing the fluff in there. Stick to keeping the shipping in, drop the covers and the speed puck and you have a ready to race Moth for a 40% discount over the VRX etc.
I want to see this low price as its what will get more people buying the boats, keeping the same value but at a higher price wont. Dont make people buy what they dont need. Cut out the fluff and focus on the differentiators etc.
I agree...at the original asking price, I was seriously looking at the Assassin. Then again, it has been questioned (and I still question) how they could turn a profit at the original price. Everyone here knows that there can be a serious profit margin with hull/foil covers (I don't NEED the hull cover, I have indoor storage for the most part), and shipping costs get significantly lower when dealers order 5+ at a time, etc. That being said, my current boat's mast costs over $7000, the boat is only 6 feet longer than a moth and about the same speed, so how they can build an entire boat with a carbon rig for the price of my carbon rig beats the heck out of me.

 
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nige

Super Anarchist
I never said the where hard to compare, I just think they are missing an opportunity to advertise a REAL and great price by throwing the fluff in there. Stick to keeping the shipping in, drop the covers and the speed puck and you have a ready to race Moth for a 40% discount over the VRX etc.
I want to see this low price as its what will get more people buying the boats, keeping the same value but at a higher price wont. Dont make people buy what they dont need. Cut out the fluff and focus on the differentiators etc.
I agree...at the original asking price, I was seriously looking at the Assassin. Then again, it has been questioned (and I still question) how they could turn a profit at the original price. Everyone here knows that there can be a serious profit margin with hull/foil covers (I don't NEED the hull cover, I have indoor storage for the most part), and shipping costs get significantly lower when dealers order 5+ at a time, etc. That being said, my current boat's mast costs over $7000, the boat is only 6 feet longer than a moth and about the same speed, so how they can build an entire boat with a carbon rig for the price of my carbon rig beats the heck out of me.
Well is you are seriously interested, I still have a quote that is good for another 3 weeks ;)

 

F18 Sailor

Super Anarchist
2,679
256
Annapolis, MD
I never said the where hard to compare, I just think they are missing an opportunity to advertise a REAL and great price by throwing the fluff in there. Stick to keeping the shipping in, drop the covers and the speed puck and you have a ready to race Moth for a 40% discount over the VRX etc.
I want to see this low price as its what will get more people buying the boats, keeping the same value but at a higher price wont. Dont make people buy what they dont need. Cut out the fluff and focus on the differentiators etc.
I agree...at the original asking price, I was seriously looking at the Assassin. Then again, it has been questioned (and I still question) how they could turn a profit at the original price. Everyone here knows that there can be a serious profit margin with hull/foil covers (I don't NEED the hull cover, I have indoor storage for the most part), and shipping costs get significantly lower when dealers order 5+ at a time, etc. That being said, my current boat's mast costs over $7000, the boat is only 6 feet longer than a moth and about the same speed, so how they can build an entire boat with a carbon rig for the price of my carbon rig beats the heck out of me.
Well is you are seriously interested, I still have a quote that is good for another 3 weeks ;)
Lol...too many boats, not enough time! I haven't even raced my new (to me) Nacra 20, save for some practice.

 




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