Assassin moth price jump

[The Black Pearl]

Withthe breakages of BR foils, you will have an great market for your used Assasin foils. How about setting up a "futures" market?

 

[the_skiff_devil]

A few more shots of the Doyle sail from the factory... to the naked eye it looks a bit like a hyde sail but it's cut to suit the southern skinnyboy mast and it has 5 battens instead of 6 to save weight.

Note the clear carbon project boat in the background.....

 

[Cruiser]

OK, so this is starting to look interesting..... Great comparison of technology between VRx and Assassin written by Nige a few posts back. But has anyone done any two or even three boat testing VRx vs Assassin vs Mach 2 or do we need to wait until the Worlds? The price point is amazing especially when you consider you get a North V8 plus a SS rig in the GRS That alone has to be worth USD2500.
My worry is that at least with a Bladerider you have Moth where the bugs, both set up and construction, have been pretty much worked out and for the "non rock stars" amongst us, you can jump on and have some great racing without too much development / re build time. However in a new design / build how much time will be spent on the bleeding edge rather than the cutting edge? I suspect that each new design is learning from previous and getting more reliable quicker, plus with the number of good sailors entering the class, set up and tuning guides become availabe much quicker.

At the end of the day, this is awesome for the class, 3 good builders (4 inc Fastacrafgt) with well thought out boats that you can sail straight out of the box!

I dont think BR have worked too much out. Rumor was that the first 18 boats from the new factory in Taiwan all had some dodgey resin (hot sun) issue not to mention the finish being very home built like. Also the new VRX's assembled in Australia still had whole decks peeling off just as many of their boats have done in the past.

 

[Ncik]

OK, so this is starting to look interesting..... Great comparison of technology between VRx and Assassin written by Nige a few posts back. But has anyone done any two or even three boat testing VRx vs Assassin vs Mach 2 or do we need to wait until the Worlds? The price point is amazing especially when you consider you get a North V8 plus a SS rig in the GRS That alone has to be worth USD2500.
My worry is that at least with a Bladerider you have Moth where the bugs, both set up and construction, have been pretty much worked out and for the "non rock stars" amongst us, you can jump on and have some great racing without too much development / re build time. However in a new design / build how much time will be spent on the bleeding edge rather than the cutting edge? I suspect that each new design is learning from previous and getting more reliable quicker, plus with the number of good sailors entering the class, set up and tuning guides become availabe much quicker.

At the end of the day, this is awesome for the class, 3 good builders (4 inc Fastacrafgt) with well thought out boats that you can sail straight out of the box!

I dont think BR have worked too much out. Rumor was that the first 18 boats from the new factory in Taiwan all had some dodgey resin (hot sun) issue not to mention the finish being very home built like. Also the new VRX's assembled in Australia still had whole decks peeling off just as many of their boats have done in the past.

That's a big statement, any photos or other evidence of such?

 

[dougculnane]

I think 3 is the correct number for builders who can put out a significant number...

Niki here in Austria has been in touch will all builders (I think) recently before ordering an Assassin. All builders seam to have orders and delivery times are in September for new boats. So they all seem to be selling boats and each boat has strengths and weaknesses. Pay your money and make your choice. It is cool that there is so much choice at the moment.

If you are thinking of getting a boat then get in touch with the builders direct to get real data on price and delivery time as there is a lot of rumor that is not always accurate. For there rest of us let gossip. I hear that the Mach 2 will produce new foils based on the secret new Ninja split flap idea.

 

[aardvark_issues]

A few more shots of the Doyle sail from the factory... to the naked eye it looks a bit like a hyde sail but it's cut to suit the southern skinnyboy mast and it has 5 battens instead of 6 to save weight.

A bit like? That has similar graphics to last years Hyde, which also has 5 battens - Same cloth too by the looks...

 

[the_skiff_devil]

Amazingly like...

 

[dougculnane]

Amazingly like...

No the makers sticker is different.

 

[ferrero]

Fastacraft? New foils right? Who has them? Whats the scoop, I have not heard anything.

I have new Fastacraft foils on order due to arrive in the next month or so. This is the first batch but the CAD I have seen looks good at least! I believe John has had some backup from an Aero designer in putting together the new set. They are two piece jobs which is a good step forward. His old foils weren't exactly slow. I think for Fastacraft sailors the big gains are in modifying control systems.

Cookie is uber fast on the Aardvark Ninja by the way. In the light stuff we stays up when everyone else including the Fastacraft boats have fallen back into the briney. Not sure about his heavy wind pace as he hasn't been out racing in the big wind much but his boats are definatley a solid proven and cheap deal when compared to the unproven assasin.

 

[the_skiff_devil]

Ferrero,

It won't stay unproven for long...

Cookie's boats are still expensive in comparison - complete boat at 8445 GBP is about NZD$22000, without transport, taxes and duties, covers, GPS etc. He's building them in low volumes compared to all the other builders, although if his form keeps up that could easily change. I gather he has 4 or 5 Ninja's on order or due soon, so it's definitely something to keep an eye on. If DC's rumour of the split flap is true, it's just another innovative move by Mike, who seems to be the Mercedes Benz of moth builders and have an uncanny ability to come up with the features all future moths will have, a few years before they get them (for instance the forward raked rudder strut has been on his boats for quite a while and now Mach2 has it). If you compare that to the 'no fluff' Assassin it's at least an extra 40%.

Having had fastacraft foils on my last boat, and wished that they were 2 piece jobs ever since paying to get them shipped from WA to Tas, it's good to hear they've changed. The old fastacraft foils are quick - no doubt there. Al Goddard on his Zero managed a surprising win at Geelong in the light stuff (but he's also on the low end of the moth weight spectrum so he simply got flying quicker than most) after having only sailed it a couple of times. The only complaint that I had with my old ones (with a flapped rudder; it was one of the last 2-3 flapped rudders made and the centreboard didn't have the little outward jut on the flap near the barrel nut) was that the rudder was very easy to vent and wouldn't shake off the cavity easily, regardless of how much I wet sanded it or put a fence on it. Might have just been the turbulent NACA section used on those rudder struts, but it certainly got a bit annoying when the rudder would wash out downhill.

Care to post a blurred CAD teaser?

 

[The Black Pearl]

OK, so this is starting to look interesting..... Great comparison of technology between VRx and Assassin written by Nige a few posts back. But has anyone done any two or even three boat testing VRx vs Assassin vs Mach 2 or do we need to wait until the Worlds? The price point is amazing especially when you consider you get a North V8 plus a SS rig in the GRS That alone has to be worth USD2500.
My worry is that at least with a Bladerider you have Moth where the bugs, both set up and construction, have been pretty much worked out and for the "non rock stars" amongst us, you can jump on and have some great racing without too much development / re build time. However in a new design / build how much time will be spent on the bleeding edge rather than the cutting edge? I suspect that each new design is learning from previous and getting more reliable quicker, plus with the number of good sailors entering the class, set up and tuning guides become availabe much quicker.

At the end of the day, this is awesome for the class, 3 good builders (4 inc Fastacrafgt) with well thought out boats that you can sail straight out of the box!

I dont think BR have worked too much out. Rumor was that the first 18 boats from the new factory in Taiwan all had some dodgey resin (hot sun) issue not to mention the finish being very home built like. Also the new VRX's assembled in Australia still had whole decks peeling off just as many of their boats have done in the past.

That's a big statement, any photos or other evidence of such?

Just my personal experience. Bought a X8 last year. The first hull had some build issues which BR took care of and delivered a new hull, rather than getting the original one repaired. Issue was the tramp bolt rope pulling out and they handled it very well with great customer service. Yes you can argue it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Quite a few of us bought X8s (Sydney last year) and there were some issues but BR sorted all of them out with out question. Boats delivered later in the year had these issues sorted out which was good to see.

Re set up, I was lucky in having access to some top Moth sailors, who really helped with boat and rig set up. Now I know vaguely what I am trying to do (I am a pretty average sailor!), I realise that it is all on the bladerider site, just follow along carefully. Re VRX, interesting your comments re build quality. Sounds like the X8 all over again. For me it reinforces my personal desire to be on the cuttng edge i.e. a boat that has been built for at least 12 months, rather than getting on the bleeding edge of buying one of the first say 20 they make. Anything this small, light, complex is bound to have initial teething problems especially if it is built in a factory where you rely on SOP and Standards rather than being built by people who understand what it's for. There have been same issue with carbon steerer tubes on road bikes / built overseas by Companies that dont understand what its for.

As I said better hope the customer service is up to scratch

 

[ferrero]

I would post it but I'd rather let John do that as its the result of all his hard work. As regards the struts on the foils I had the same issue on my old prowler but the vertical sections were changed a while ago now and it is not nearly as bad anymore. Comparable to a BR in terms of ventillation issues. Having said that mikes rudders never do it I guess due to a combination of a suitable stut section and a forward raked rudder.

 

[wicked]

Just got a reply on the issue of the BR foils for those who get the early boats - "They can sell their old assassin foils to their Bladerider mates!".
If I get the current foils with my boat, I'll be keeping them as practice foils. If not, I'll still be stoked.

The deal is looking better and better for those who got in early!

As for the doyle sail, well as I said I haven't seen much of it - I know what the foot looks like but that's about it.

Wicked... that's your boat, did you get the Doyle with it or did Darren just use it to test rig the boat?

Yup that is my boat. I did not get the Doyle sail. Just using it to test the rig in the boat.