Asymetric or Code Zero for my Jeanneau 39i

[Jabber]

I have just made the giant leap from a '79 Santana 30 to a 2011 Jeanneau 39i. On my Santana I had a custom bowsprit and a beautiful Quantum A2 asymetric. It was a fantastic cruising sail for the light air conditions we often encounter in British Columbia waters. Now I have this lovely new 39i, and I happen to have enough left in the budget for a Selden sprit, possibly a furler, and an asymetric....or maybe a Code Zero?  Decisions decisions!

My thinking is this: Most of the sailing I did with my Asymetric on the Schock was mostly reaching, and most of that was forward of the beam. This was mainly because most of the time we were sailing in light conditions where the chute made the difference between sailing and motoring, so of course sailing deep wasn't really an option. So if that is the case, then perhaps something more like a Code Zero would be a better option. It would allow us to power up and sail tighter angles in light air, and still give us good reaching ability as the breeze picks up. We would be sacrificing on the deeper angles. I should say that I have never been a fan of running....I would rather sail hotter and faster, even if i don't get there as fast!

I would be really interested in getting some input from everyone, but particularly from those who have both sails in their inventories...which one do you like better? Also a bonus question...do you have a furler, and what are your thoughts on them!

 

[psycho tiller]

Typically a spinnaker tends to be more useful in more conditions and angles than a code 0.  The code 0 is a fantastic sail to have on the boat but it's a very specialized sail.  It's also a little more difficult to handle and manage even on a furler because it's much heavier than a kite but still almost as big.  As a generalization I'd say you're still better off with an A3 if you want to reach.  The best answer you'll find is with your local sailmaker who can look at your boat and knows your local conditions.  Your sailmaker could tell you what they think will work best in your area and also can probably tweak a code 0 or an A3 (or A2) to specifically meet your needs.  Finding a good sailmaker is key, not just someone who wants to make a quick sale so if you don't already have one it's best to ask around.  Treat them well and they'll treat you well.

 

[chester]

https://northsails.com/sailing/en/2016/09/code-sails-defined

https://www.quantumsails.com/en/resources-and-expertise/articles/top-8-misconceptions-about-code-0-sails

http://www.epsails.com/Choose your Spinnaker.htm

 

[Overbored]

Something to consider is the code 0 will require a bobstay and the A3 will not. the code zero is a lot easier to handle if it is on a furler. they furl easily. without a furler they are a hand full. much heaver then an A3. would not have one without a furler unless you have a full crew.

 

[Panoramix]

The cruising code 0 I have seen were a modern and bigger version of the high clew jib (we used to call them Yankee in French but I am not sure that you guys use the same word). I've never used one but It makes sense to me as when you cruise you reach often and a genoa is inefficient on a reach (really hard to have a good shape) whereas a high clew sail is well behaved even without outriggers.

Neverless DDW I don't think that it will work well, actually a symmetric spinnaker + a code 0 might make sense for those not scared by poles (the struts, not the people!).

 

[Hobie Dog]

Well you have lots of good answers here with some conflicting data.

I have a Jeanneau 37 so similar size boat, she is 2001 so not sure if the rigs are similar??? Mine has what I would call moderate swept back spreaders, genoa overlaps them, adjustable back stay and a traditional main. Genoa is probably a 135 and we have an asymmetrical cruising kite that I just tack to the anchor pulpit.

My first take was "Code 0 on a cruising boat of this size, WHAT/WHY!?" Asymmetrical kite all the way no question!

All my Code 0 experience comes from the one we had on our Antrim 27 sport boat. It was a VERY specialized sail. Raced the boat for 6 years and maybe had the sail up 10 times. And then not for very long as we seemed to go back to the jib or a kite pretty quick. I can really only think of one distance race that we had it up for a significant amount of time and worked well.

But that being said based on what Barnacle said above it sounds like a cruising Code 0 on a furler is a totally different animal. So worth looking into.

Definitely getting a good sail maker involved on this is a good call!

What type of main do you have and condition? Sounds like you like to sail thus your main will be the first sail up and last down. Before buying more head sails I would put money into a really good main first if you need one.

Keep us posted and good luck!

Congrats on the new boat!

 

[Jabber]

Well you have lots of good answers here with some conflicting data.

I have a Jeanneau 37 so similar size boat, she is 2001 so not sure if the rigs are similar??? Mine has what I would call moderate swept back spreaders, genoa overlaps them, adjustable back stay and a traditional main. Genoa is probably a 135 and we have an asymmetrical cruising kite that I just tack to the anchor pulpit.

My first take was "Code 0 on a cruising boat of this size, WHAT/WHY!?" Asymmetrical kite all the way no question!

All my Code 0 experience comes from the one we had on our Antrim 27 sport boat. It was a VERY specialized sail. Raced the boat for 6 years and maybe had the sail up 10 times. And then not for very long as we seemed to go back to the jib or a kite pretty quick. I can really only think of one distance race that we had it up for a significant amount of time and worked well.

But that being said based on what Barnacle said above it sounds like a cruising Code 0 on a furler is a totally different animal. So worth looking into.

Definitely getting a good sail maker involved on this is a good call!

What type of main do you have and condition? Sounds like you like to sail thus your main will be the first sail up and last down. Before buying more head sails I would put money into a really good main first if you need one.

Keep us posted and good luck!

Congrats on the new boat!

The 39i has a 7/8 frac rig with swept spreaders, and the chainplate is on the hull, so headsail size is very limited.  The mainsail is still in good shape, but it is definitely a cruising sail. I can't justify replacing it just yet as it is only 7 years old and lightly used.

It is the cruising code zero I had in mind. Ultimately I may end up with both an asym and a code zero, but getting both right now probably isnt feasible. I need to save room in the budget for a low drag prop as well!

 

[Hobie Dog]

Oh mine is a mast head rig.

Oh you have a 2/3 bladed fixed prop? If you like sailing that is the first thing I would replace before any new sails. That thing really slows you down, especially in the light air!

 

[d'ranger]

Yep, feathering prop, since you don't seem concerned about long beats the main should be ok, a bit bagged out off the breeze is not an issue - it will hinder your windward work. For a lot of people that is what the iron jenny is for.  As mentioned by others find a sailmaker who is interested in a customer not just making the sale.  With A kites you can get them cut for running or reaching - and there is so much overlap now.  In the good old days your spin choice was cloth weight and you could get a screecher or jib top reacher for tight reaches. 

I race on a boat bigger than this one that has both sails. The 0 will carry much further forward and more importantly to a higher wind range.  It's not laminate so much like a spin getting down.  If it's almost always light I would get the Asym as it's just going to be faster. Top down furlers work but furling is a sllloooooowwwwww process,  probably why BB said get a 0 with laminate. Furls like a jib.

Maybe someone will chime in with sailmakers in your area.

 

[Zonker]

Tough call. I'm local to the area. +1 to the folding or feathering prop. Makes a big difference in light airs.

Have you priced the cost for a furler + the code zero? The furlers ain't cheap.

I think a cruising code zero might be a better choice for a fractional rigged, moderately heavy boat. Because it's on a furler you'll put it up fairly readily. It will power up the boat going upwind and reaching in light winds. It can be cut better than a racing zero for upwind work. And it works on a broach reach without too much effort. If it's really light, just take down the main and sail with the code zero when going deeper downwind.

Evans Starzinger said they used their zero a lot more offshore than a spinnaker because it was faster to take down when the winds came up quickly and just less effort - but offshore cruising you're always tired and everything is a big deal!

 

[Crash]

Have a friend with a 42i Performance.  He just got a Code 0 for it and loves it.  Cruised from Norfolk up to New England (Newport,  Maine, etc) and back this summer.  Said he used it alot....His biggest jib is about 110, so the Code (flown from Anchor roller) really helped on lighter days.

That said, a big plus 1 to a feathering/folding prop...

 

[jacrider]

Gotta have a feathering or folding prop.  

We have both - asymmetric and code 0.

We rarely use the assy.   We do use and like the code 0.  More wind angles generally.   Easier to rig/hoist.  Furling is a must.  We like that if we use the code 0 on long sails, we can leave it up furled as we enter an anchorage, get settled then take it down and stow it away.

Assy is pretty, and in the right conditions/wind angle fun to sail.  

We are a 49' boat.  Nearly mast head rig and swept spreaders.  Normally sailed double handed with a decent autopilot.  We have a short (24" or so) bow sprit and tack both sails there.

 

[Jabber]

Gotta have a feathering or folding prop.  

We have both - asymmetric and code 0.

We rarely use the assy.   We do use and like the code 0.  More wind angles generally.   Easier to rig/hoist.  Furling is a must.  We like that if we use the code 0 on long sails, we can leave it up furled as we enter an anchorage, get settled then take it down and stow it away.

Assy is pretty, and in the right conditions/wind angle fun to sail.  

We are a 49' boat.  Nearly mast head rig and swept spreaders.  Normally sailed double handed with a decent autopilot.  We have a short (24" or so) bow sprit and tack both sails there.

What furler are you using? Do you use the same furler drum for both sails, or 2 complete furlers? What kind of sprit do you have? 

 

[ghost37]

We have a 150% light weight drifter made from a 1.5oz technical fabric (not nylon) that's a tri-radial cut. It's been a really versatile sail for us and we use it regularly. We fly it on an inner solent stay (I know, backwards, but it works...stay is also used for staysail and storm jib) just behind the headstay. Because it's essentially a huge genoa, it works well upwind to 50-60* apparent and we can pole it out DDW. It really gives us another gear when we'd normally be turning the engine on. That said, we've comfortably flown it off the wind in 15-16 knots.

We have an asym and I considered a code zero, but the drifter just gives us so many more options and versatility in different conditions. If I spend $$$$ on a sail I want to use it! 

 

[jacrider]

What furler are you using? Do you use the same furler drum for both sails, or 2 complete furlers? What kind of sprit do you have? 

GMT Composites made the sprit for us.  Fairly simple fixed sprit.  It's permanently mounted and requires a bob stay.

We have a Facnor furler on the Code 0 and a sock/snuffer on the assy.

The luff of the Code 0 needs lots of tension, so we had to upgrade the halyard.  Some boats run purchase on the luff, either at the top of the halyard or under the furler.  We have a dyneema cored halyard and run it through 2 spinlock clutches to hold better.  This bank of clutches has an electric winch, so we can create tension.  We also use a barberhauler on the sheets and adjust it regularly as wind speed and angle changes.

 

[Cuffy]

I have assymetrics and code 0 on my cruising cat and do tend to use the 0 more often. The bottom up furling on code 0 is easier and more reliable than the top down required for the A2. We have a pole and pole out the 0 to run deep, but that's being lazy as cruising sailors are!

 

[Veeger]

I purchased a Code Zero this year and ended up changing from a Factor bottom up fuller to a size larger Ubi Maier top down rig.  Marvelous improvement but the torsion cable doesn't come cheap...

 

[bgytr]

I'll echo the Asym v the zero on that boat, if it's either/or.  zeros suck to handle and bag, and for that boat will have a very narrow range. assuming you have an overlapping genoa, the window for correct use of the zero will be very small, like 50 to 65 apparent angle, up to about 10 true.  Plus you gotta make sure your add-on sprit can take the higher loads. The local structure may not be able to handle that, you'd probably want to check the engineering very carefully of the sprit to handle a zero.

The sailmaker will definitely tell you that you must have both!