Wright Way
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Australian Sailing
- Thread starter Commodore Captain
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Some new PLB's are equipped with AIS, or you can get something like this, which lasts for 7 years and appears to be pretty useful particularly for racing
https://www.whitworths.com.au/ocean-signal-ais-dsc-personal-man-overboard-locator-device
The Dark Knight
Super Anarchist
Electronic flares flash in "random" patterns. You will not mistake it for a nav light, but maybe you will think someone is having a disco...
Some will also flash SOS like this one.
LB 15
Cunt
It takes you 10 hours to motor to something in visual line of sight? You need to have a diver clean your prop or anyone relying on you to rescue them needs to be pretty good at treading water.
Just joking. We played with these things at a safety conference I went to about 10 years ago. They weren't approved yet but they were very impressive. Not as much fun on new years eve however.
Wright Way
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That's not a PLB as far as the safety regs are concerned, you need satellite 406 model, they are VHF only, they won't initiate a search and rescue operation.
The Dark Knight
Super Anarchist
The Dark Knight
Super Anarchist
two very different beasts.
For ocean racing, the AIS MOB device is way more useful and they should be mandatory, not PLB's for all crew.
And for that reason, many ocean racers have both. AIS first, then if the boat doesn't turn around/can't find you/you're dying, pull the PLB... We keep ours in bum bags, so that it's not attached to a pfd that you only wear at night, and so you can have it on when you go up on deck off shift to have a piss. They also happen to be good for snacks
Wright Way
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AIS MOB good for not much when your boat sinks and there is no one else around.
It all depends on your circumstances, PLB for safety Regs makes sense, it always works. AIS in race sailing instructions.
If you sail in crowded waters AIS is probably better, assuming people have their AIS radio on. AIS is best for MOB.
If you need outside assistance PLB all the way.
LB 15
Cunt
The Dark Knight
Super Anarchist
I agree both is best, but if they are going to mandate only 1, AIS is better. It does depend on the race though.
Sailabout
Super Anarchist
a 406 epirb/plb is for finding the body
an ais/vhf is for finding your crew that fell over the side and you can test it...
an ais/vhf is for finding your crew that fell over the side and you can test it...
The Bavaria 47 "Essence" sank off NZ in a gale in 2019. A wave broke over her and literally squished the hull and popped the glued windows out. The liferaft, dinghy and ships epirb also went west along with the windows. They got off the boat into the water as she went down after about 15 mins.
One of the crew had a personal Epirb attached to his life jacket and it saved most of them after treading water a few hours, one died 3 survived. They were located by a NZ airforce Orion and dropped a liferaft. So close to a total loss with all hands.
You can get the lat-lon of the epirb from the rescue coordinators pretty quickly.
Wright Way
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Well said Mike, AIS and electronic flares wouldn't have saved them.
I believe NZ is a well served for search and rescue, I would not rely on AIS Beacon around here, not enough boats around.
I would expect a pretty quick response around most of the coast to a PLB distress signal, probably much better than the chance of a boat being nearby picking up an AIS signal and responding to it. They work for land SAR too.
I sail the coast around here quite a bit, often solo, often no other boats in sight for long periods, I don't have AIS either so I won't be responding to any call for help even if you see me, flare might work.
If I set off my PLB I would be surprised if I didn't see a helicopter within an hour.
I understand the views of the US and Europeans who claim AIS is best, they should appreciate that its a bit different sailing around here.
I believe NZ is a well served for search and rescue, I would not rely on AIS Beacon around here, not enough boats around.
I would expect a pretty quick response around most of the coast to a PLB distress signal, probably much better than the chance of a boat being nearby picking up an AIS signal and responding to it. They work for land SAR too.
I sail the coast around here quite a bit, often solo, often no other boats in sight for long periods, I don't have AIS either so I won't be responding to any call for help even if you see me, flare might work.
If I set off my PLB I would be surprised if I didn't see a helicopter within an hour.
I understand the views of the US and Europeans who claim AIS is best, they should appreciate that its a bit different sailing around here.
Sailabout
Super Anarchist
Yes if the version epirb you have is a gps one that sends the position, much safer
Depends where you are what the outcome for rescue will be.
Satellite gets a 15minute window over you every 100 minutes plus you need to ensure the shore based number they will call to check the epirb owner will answer.
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That's changed a lot over the decade or two, there are now geostationary receivers that cover close to 90% of the planet. Satellite Response is now practically instant outside of the polar regions.
Crew should be briefed to only activate their personal epirb when its clear visual contact has been lost.
An emergency call center will respond with the beacon LatLon as well as working with you until rescue is accomplished. Even if it's an unregistered beacon.
Then not only the calling vessel but other craft and aircraft will be coordinated externally regardless.
Consider a dissmasted vessel with crew overboard or even an inverted vessel; keel-less mono or inverted multi.
Sailabout
Super Anarchist
A geo stationary satellite is only going to work for a gps enhanced epirb as below...
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtEpirb
406 MHz GEOSAR System
The major advantage of the 406 MHz low earth orbit system is the provision of global Earth coverage using a limited number of polar-orbiting satellite. Coverage is not continuous, however, and it may take up to a couple of hours for an EPIRB alert to be received. To overcome this limitation, COSPAS-SARSAT has 406 MHz EPIRB repeaters aboard several geostationary satellites.
Note that GEOSAR cannot detect 121.5 MHz alerts, nor can it route unregistered 406 MHz alerts to a rescue authority. GEOSAR cannot calculate the location of any alert it receives, unless the beacon has an integral GPS receiver.
Just a quick question for the brains trust regarding Australian sail numbers.
If a boat has had a sail number since launch but any club or organisation affiliation or involvement ceased a few years ago...Under new ownership, that Sail number was never transferred or renewed.. Is there any way to preserve that boats sail number use(for nostalgic purposes) other that paying Australian Sailing $400+ dollar+ annuals?
If a boat has had a sail number since launch but any club or organisation affiliation or involvement ceased a few years ago...Under new ownership, that Sail number was never transferred or renewed.. Is there any way to preserve that boats sail number use(for nostalgic purposes) other that paying Australian Sailing $400+ dollar+ annuals?
