Australian Sailing

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
6,862
1,536
Brisvegas
Which clubs have walked away from AS ?

ie dssaffiluated.?

which clubs just folded ( lack of members, events, activity etc)?
which clubs still exist, but are quite happy doing their own thing?

couple years back AS Qld told other Qld clubs, that Noosa Yacht and Rowing, were persona non grata.

what used to be Wynum Manly Yacht Club ( Qld) thatoperate a marina, with around 50:50 powerboats and non-racers versus sailing race boats, established Wynum Manly Sailing Club, and dissafiliated WMYC, as AS were charging all members the AS fee.

now WMSC is paying around half the AS fee that they used to.

smart move, and good interpretation of the AS requirements to affiliate.
I was wondering about that. I guess that’s also why MBTBC has a separate sailing division

 
Fleetwood said:
Or join a non-AS-affiliated yacht club and race with them.

In ours, rules are minimal, racing is good, and good-natured (mostly), and most of our fees goes to insurance. (The rest goes for lubrication on the start boat.)
Got a list on non AS affiliated clubs?

 

SCANAS

Super Anarchist
6,722
442
Brisbane
Moreton Bay Boat Club wasn’t affiliated a few years ago, not sure if changed recently. 
 

If I was Mark I would start behind the fleet, provided not an exclusion zone, & run the course on any race he wants. I’m sure he’s welcome at the bar. 

 

mccroc

Anarchist
608
381
Sydney
save that with most insurers racing cover only applies to AS club races.
Are you sure of that? I just checked my Club Marine policy details and it has the attached clause, as otherwise I am only covered for non-spinnaker racing. It does mention World Sailing to refer to their definition of racing - but doesn't specifically exclude other racing. I wonder what other insurers say in their policy wording.

I have another more serious issue with Club Marine where they denied a claim for damage done to a yacht caused by the actions of another yacht that was not damaged, even though a Protest Hearing finding explained the situation. Basically one yacht tacked suddenly, not giving any room to a yacht that then collided with another.

I ended up speaking to the assessor, who told me he only reads protest findings "out of interest". In this case he did his own investigation without talking to the damaged boat's skipper - he relied only on information only from the yacht the PC had found to be at fault. We had shall we say a robust discussion - at the end he said: "Well we will just have to agree to disagree" and I replied i can't do that because you're wrong! Luckily Club Marine caved in a bit.

Yacht_racing.jpg

 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,011
1,080
Southern Ocean
Are you sure of that? I just checked my Club Marine policy details and it has the attached clause, as otherwise I am only covered for non-spinnaker racing. It does mention World Sailing to refer to their definition of racing - but doesn't specifically exclude other racing. I wonder what other insurers say in their policy wording.

I have another more serious issue with Club Marine where they denied a claim for damage done to a yacht caused by the actions of another yacht that was not damaged, even though a Protest Hearing finding explained the situation. Basically one yacht tacked suddenly, not giving any room to a yacht that then collided with another.

I ended up speaking to the assessor, who told me he only reads protest findings "out of interest". In this case he did his own investigation without talking to the damaged boat's skipper - he relied only on information only from the yacht the PC had found to be at fault. We had shall we say a robust discussion - at the end he said: "Well we will just have to agree to disagree" and I replied i can't do that because you're wrong! Luckily Club Marine caved in a bit.

View attachment 483071
There are different wordings with different policies, even with the same insurer.

I have one that covers racing under a approved marine permit where a set of rules apply as opposed to world Sailing ie AS race.

There are a few clubs not affiliated that race under the Col Regs and you still get cover.

Speak to your insurer.

This insurance is the biggest practical difficulty with an AS alternative but no doubt an insurer can get on board certainly is if the Col Reg based rules are used.

 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,011
1,080
Southern Ocean
Are you sure of that? I just checked my Club Marine policy details and it has the attached clause, as otherwise I am only covered for non-spinnaker racing. It does mention World Sailing to refer to their definition of racing - but doesn't specifically exclude other racing. I wonder what other insurers say in their policy wording.

I have another more serious issue with Club Marine where they denied a claim for damage done to a yacht caused by the actions of another yacht that was not damaged, even though a Protest Hearing finding explained the situation. Basically one yacht tacked suddenly, not giving any room to a yacht that then collided with another.

I ended up speaking to the assessor, who told me he only reads protest findings "out of interest". In this case he did his own investigation without talking to the damaged boat's skipper - he relied only on information only from the yacht the PC had found to be at fault. We had shall we say a robust discussion - at the end he said: "Well we will just have to agree to disagree" and I replied i can't do that because you're wrong! Luckily Club Marine caved in a bit.

View attachment 483071
You also identify the biggest problem with the RRs and the insurance cover.

Ever policy as an exclusion for damage caused by a breach of a law.

Every state has incorporated by Regulation, the Col Regs into Marine Safety Legislation.

So breach of the Col Regs equals no insurance.

Breach of the Col Regs is determined by a Court not a AS protest panel.

RRs and Col Regs are not not identical in the two areas where ther is most risk of damage, ie starts and mark rounding.

Just another example of AS arrogance that the rest of the does not exist.

Only NSW has a special rule inserted into the Col Regs in that state after work by Hicko and others at YNSW at the time who understood the problem.

Personally, in keel boat racing I follow the Col Regs not the RRS and just never puts the boat in to a position of conflict.

 

mccroc

Anarchist
608
381
Sydney
This insurance is the biggest practical difficulty with an AS alternative but no doubt an insurer can get on board certainly is if the Col Reg based rules are used.
This is exactly the issue why the SSAA affiliated. After the 98 Hobart Insurers were very nervous. Our Insurance doubled IIRC. We then got insurance under the AS umbrella, plus submitted a very detailed Risk Management plan and insurance actually came down.

As you mention in your later post NSW does have a clause in the Act that says something along the lines of "any Aquatic activity that is governed by rules, those rules will take precedence over CollRegs, but only between yachts racing under those rules". So if an AS alternative started and raced under accepted rules - for example the rules I posted a while ago - the SASC Racing Rules from 1872, then NSW Roads and Maritime would have no issue. The fun would start when a CYCA yacht hit one of our "bandit" yachts - they would get a shock to find CollRegs apply!

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,054
3,234
Tasmania, Australia
The fun would start when a CYCA yacht hit one of our "bandit" yachts - they would get a shock to find CollRegs apply!
Funny - we had that discussion decades ago on Sydney Harbour. Friend of mine's boat. A boat racing expected him to get out of the way because - they were racing. Jim told them he was stand-on, he wasn't racing and they had to obey the ColRegs.

It wasn't well received. Jim didn't care, he'd done a lot of racing and knew all the rules. We were drinking beer & eating roast chicken, fuck manoeuvering at that point.

I make it a practice to stay out of other boats' way if I possibly can as a matter of courtesy regardless of whether they're racing or not - no skin off of my nose to alter course so as to pass their stern.

FKT

 

Livia

Super Anarchist
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1,080
Southern Ocean
Does Sailpass requirement include Pro’s on crew?.
AS will start to charge so called Pro’s an extra fee.

Only fair given someone is earning their living from the use of AS administrative infrastructure.

Shit just gave a GRS a good idea,

Say $5k for a year of Cat 1 and 2 races, another $5k for everything else.

Oh, and if a boat with Pro;s on board want to protest the fee is $10k.

They seems to have more skin ink the game, like the next pay check.

why should people getting paid free load of the rest.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

DELETED

Anarchist
531
210
Well this owner just decided to not get involved in Club racing or AS. Looks like a boat built to race long ago is now officially retired and i will not be Club racing. Having read through here, chatted with other yacht owners/racers and read All the AS website stuff i can stomach, thats where this Newbie lays…. 
Thanks again for everybodys input and the information/insight into the reality of another Taxpayer funded wannabe legislative body. See yous out there.

 

mccroc

Anarchist
608
381
Sydney
Now that SailPass is in force, who’s going to be the first to be DSQ’d for failing to have registered crew?
Very good question. It will depend on SIs (in terms of whether crew lists and AS numbers need to be supplied prior to race). Otherwise, a yacht can protest another yacht if they suspect no AS number for one of the crew. When did they find out? When did they notify the other boat? Could the protested yacht have done something had they been notified earlier? Did the protestor fly a flag? And if so from when?Could open a huge can of worms.

If the yacht protesting found out after the race can they protest? If they inform the RC can the RC take action, particularly as the report comes from an interested party.?

Personally I think only an asshole (or CYCA member) would protest on this rule.

 

Rawhide

Super Anarchist
1,899
99
Pittwater
AS will start to charge so called Pro’s an extra fee.

Only fair given someone is earning their living from the use of AS administrative infrastructure.

Shit just gave a GRS a good idea,

Say $5k for a year of Cat 1 and 2 races, another $5k for everything else.

Oh, and if a boat with Pro;s on board want to protest the fee is $10k.

They seems to have more skin ink the game, like the next pay check.

why should people getting paid free load of the rest.
Looks like we will be back to boat loads of hedge trimmers. Just like sailing a F40 again. 

 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,011
1,080
Southern Ocean
random. said:
Just not between two boats in an AS event.
different is different states, 

In NSW must be the same race into even event

Qld, who knows as the person giving out the marine permits has to power to suspend operation of the Col Regs under the Act.

 

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