Australian Sailing

Rawhide

Super Anarchist
1,899
99
Pittwater
So...a players assoc would need to have its own race admin...supported by sailors, for sailors....hmmm.
I was thinking of simply as a lobby group finally giving voice to the sailors. Or would AS simply say we don't recognise your association? Could Australian Recreational Sailors Ensemble (ARSE) join World Sailing direct and run its own events?

 

DELETED

Anarchist
531
210
I was thinking of simply as a lobby group finally giving voice to the sailors. Or would AS simply say we don't recognise your association? Could Australian Recreational Sailors Ensemble (ARSE) join World Sailing direct and run its own events?
If you register it as a religion, the tax breaks and government grant opportunities may make it more profitable than AS.

 

DELETED

Anarchist
531
210
I was thinking of simply as a lobby group finally giving voice to the sailors. Or would AS simply say we don't recognise your association? Could Australian Recreational Sailors Ensemble (ARSE) join World Sailing direct and run its own events?
Members should be referred to as “Bandits”..

All ‘Rules’ should be referred to as ‘Points of Order’ and the rule book be printed in Toilet roll form where each ‘POO’ is printed on a square(Ticket)  :D
 

At least that way even new comers to the sport would find ‘Australian Recreational Sailors Ensemble (ARSE)’ immediately more useful than AS ever could be to them.

 
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There wont be any push back from clubs, club officers are continually enticed with the prospect of membership of the AS elite. 

The only hope I see is to concede that AS does not represent us the sailors and create a "players association" as in most other professional sports 
There could be push back, from many clubs, f only the voting club members grow some balls, put up a motion, at their clubs next General Meeting, to reject the use of RRS, and the AS prescriptions, and, use ColRegs only.

the next motion, to be put to the club members to vote on, us, to nt pay any future AS Affiluation fees, and dsaffiliate.

just two motions to vote on, and your clubs committee then acts.

yep, it'll take balls, but, once a bit of a groundswell gets going, then, you'll get change.

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,054
3,234
Tasmania, Australia
There could be push back, from many clubs, f only the voting club members grow some balls, put up a motion, at their clubs next General Meeting, to reject the use of RRS, and the AS prescriptions, and, use ColRegs only.

the next motion, to be put to the club members to vote on, us, to nt pay any future AS Affiluation fees, and dsaffiliate.

just two motions to vote on, and your clubs committee then acts.

yep, it'll take balls, but, once a bit of a groundswell gets going, then, you'll get change.
IOW, as I have said on a number of occasions prior to your post, never.

I fully agree with you but it won't happen. There isn't the support. Most people simply don't care.

Memo to self: write to MP telling them that AS in no way represent my or my interests and I oppose giving them taxpayers' funds.

Which will be just as effective ie not at all.

FKT

 

Wright Way

Member
426
213
Col Regs do not work in racing situations eg; mark rounding, starts, overtaking etc.
Only if you want to fuck someone's day up. 

Plenty of races run under collregs just fine. 

It's only the wannabe match racers doing windward leeward that wouldn't enjoy it. 

 

duncan (the other one)

Super Anarchist
5,433
457
Siderney
Probably right Rawhide...the club administration has more in common with AS than they do with sailing members...and there's always an "accreditation" to be achieved...and the promise of the possibility of travel to a sanctioned regatta and expenses in return for their ongoing commitment. 

It highlights the "us & them" we see at every club....racing sailors need race course admin...but few of those admin have really raced at a high level (if at all)...and when there's an on course screw up, we, the sailors criticise them...so naturally they're drawn to the support they feel they get from AS.

So...a players assoc would need to have its own race admin...supported by sailors, for sailors....hmmm.
Honestly.. this has got to be the biggest pile of generalising and whiny shit-stain I've ever heard.

  1. If you don't like your club's admin - then step up and volunteer
  2. If you don't like your clubs race management - then step up and volunteer
  3. If you don't like your club - join another one.

It is a gross insult to say "club administration has more in common with AS than they do with sailing members".

This may be true of some clubs -- but not most.

The 'us and them' attitude is being driven by YOU, not the club administration or race management teams.

 

trt131

Super Anarchist
1,594
321
And if a competitor breaks a Col Reg who adjudicates on this as it would have to go to the Marine Courts.  A normal Protest Committee are not qualified to to rule on Col Regs.

As for plenty of races being run under Col Regs.  I would suggest they only think they are using Col Regs.  Have they ever had a protest?

 

mccroc

Anarchist
608
381
Sydney
Honestly.. this has got to be the biggest pile of generalising and whiny shit-stain I've ever heard.

  1. If you don't like your club's admin - then step up and volunteer
  2. If you don't like your clubs race management - then step up and volunteer
  3. If you don't like your club - join another one.

It is a gross insult to say "club administration has more in common with AS than they do with sailing members".

This may be true of some clubs -- but not most.

The 'us and them' attitude is being driven by YOU, not the club administration or race management teams.
I can't agree with you. It is not generalising, you only need to talk to members of many clubs to see it is not whining.

I have stepped up and volunteered, I am on the Race Committee. I am however resigned to the fact that my club management, and many if not all others will not take the huge decision to disaffiliate (if that's a word). The problem will always lie in competing in AS events if not AS members. We have seen AS threaten to ban sailors who sail in non AS events. I don't think that would stand up in court, but it is a strong argument to stay in the family, no matter the family is totally dysfunctional.  There will always be people who just want to go racing and don't care about any of this, but my voice, and other voices should be heard, and yes I am saying this to my club's Board.

I don't think anyone that has been sailing and racing for twenty years or more has not seen the pervasive growth of administrative interference in sailing and yachting. Even earlier, prior to the 1950s, in Sydney there were different Associations, that clubs moved between. They had very little influence in day to day racing. It was only in the mid 1960s that YNSW was formed, and it has steadily gone downhill since then in my opinion. It has gotten fatter and fatter, with very little benefit to the non-top grade sailors. They announce more and more courses, to learn things better learnt on the water. You do not need a qualification to run a club's starter's boat, or chair a Protest Committee. AS keep sending missive to clubs to maybe shame them into having their volunteers do these courses. And they lie to the clubs about how great their Insurance scheme is, although there is much evidence to totally refute that.

I posted a while ago that from the minutes of SASC in the 1950s there was strong lobbying of clubs to pay for the 1956 Olympics - interestingly rejected by clubs at that time. Here we are in 2022, and their new Mission Statement is all about the Olympics, and more control over sailing.

This is not whinging, it is stating facts. 

 

mccroc

Anarchist
608
381
Sydney
And if a competitor breaks a Col Reg who adjudicates on this as it would have to go to the Marine Courts.  A normal Protest Committee are not qualified to to rule on Col Regs.

As for plenty of races being run under Col Regs.  I would suggest they only think they are using Col Regs.  Have they ever had a protest?
I don't think that Coll Regs can be used, however it would be very easy to write rules, similar to the RRS - given that the RRS has developed from very old racing rules. They may have a copyright over the intricacy of their rules and how they are published, but the basic rules have been universal for more than 150 years.

The Shorthanded Sailing Association of Australia had its own racing rules up until 2002, after being formed in 1983. It also had its own Equipment or Safety regulations, that had a greater focus on all crew knowing where everything was and how it is used - not just one person signing a form.

SASC and other clubs all had racing rules before YNSW and AS got involved - I posted a while ago the SASC Racing Rules from 1872 - they cover just about every racing situation. However they were written in a time when sportsmanship was real. But they still had rules about protesting.

 

LB 15

Cunt
You are correct. And I dont recall there has ever been a protest lodged with regards to colregs 
It was very much part of a p/s protest in a certain offshore race up here a few years back. But as one of the combatants was the Vice Commodore of the club and the head Juror was the Commodore, the protest was not allowed.

So they had a brawl at the presentation instead.

 

LB 15

Cunt
it would be very easy to write rules, similar to the RRS
I have already written them

The start.

Competitors may start anytime they like after the start signal. There will be a warning signal not more than 15 minites to the start time, being a white flare on the RC boat and the raising of a white 'Its 5 o'çlock somewhere' Flag. The start will be call of 'Ready, set, go' by someone with a loud voice. Most clubs have several of these people. The start signal will be a red parachute flare, the 'Its 5 o'çlock somewhere flag' will be lowered and a pirate flag will be raised. OA's may have as many divisions as they like, however starts will always be conducted by fleet B (yachts 52 feet long) starting 2 hours after fleet A (everyone else) but with all competitors being recorded as having the same start time. All competitors will start on port tack. 

When boats meet.

The vessel on port tack will give way to a vessel on starboard tack.

Fleet B competitors will keep clear of all fleet A boats regardless of what tack they are on.

Fleet B competitors will wave any two handed competitors through when on starboard, or polity dip them.

When fleet B vessels meet on opposite tacks the 'Right of way' vessel will be determined by the number of partners in each's respective boats retained law firms.

The overtaking boat shall keep clear. Fleet B boats shall only pass to leeward of a fleet A boat.

Rounding marks.

All marks shall be rounded in the order and side of passing as described in the SI's

When two or more boats are approaching the mark all boats shall not act like an entitled cunt.

The finish.

Fleet A boats will be marked as finished when the bow crosses the finish line. This does not include bow spirits.

Fleet B boats will be marked as finished when the owner crosses the line. If the owner is not on board then it is when the oldest member of the crew crosses the line.

Protests.

Protests between Fleet A boats or between a Fleet A boat and a fleet B boat will be held under the Marquess of Queensberry rules with an amendment to allow wrestling. Each boat shall sent one representative to the hearing. (for protests between two 100 footers, this may be amended by a tag team format)

The fleet B representative may only use one arm. There is no time limit on these protests.

Protests between fleet B boats will be held by a panel consisting of Australian sailings 'Culture Crew'. Appeals will be held by the Court of Arbitration for Sport or the Supreme court of NSW.

Protests between fleet B boats must be lodged on social media within three minutes of the incident.

Safety

All boats shall carry whatever safety equipment they deem as being necessary for the safety of their boat.

Fleet B boats shall carry 4 working VHF's, 10 White flares and 10 red parachute flares.

 
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LB 15

Cunt
If they bought each other beers afterwards, then I think this is how most protests should be resolved :)
Sadly no, they ignored the video evidence and kicked out the owner of the boat who was not a flag officer. It would have been a much better event if any of the combatants could fight. And didn't king hit someone while their arms were being held by another crew member.

 




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