Australian Sailing

LB 15

Cunt
random. said:
Predators know how to pick-off the weak ones in the herd.


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duncan (the other one)

Super Anarchist
5,401
426
Siderney
Dunc..your comment: "Any club/organisation is as corrupt as its members let it get, they need to actively participate in elections, or they will get the leaders they deserve, good and hard." suggests you've misinterpreted my point...or that I wasn't being clear.

I'm not suggesting my club's admin is corrupt...they are the hard working, honest, committed backbone of the club...running mid-week schools programs, girlsail, class regattas (state & national) and the week in, week out club sailing program. My point is that all of them, in the pursuit of delivering these events has become enthralled with the AS process...getting "qualified"...and in the process...indoctrinated into doing things the AS way. These people aren't sailors, they are race administrators...and they see themselves as AS acolytes. They don't stop to ask "what is the AS doing for my club?"...and some see the opportunity to become a PRO and have expenses covered as they get their passport stamped in the AS regatta books....along with the professional coaches and semi-pro PRO's, the international jurors and all the added expenses....It creates a dichotomy in the club when it comes to the perceived role of AS....That's what I mean by "us & them".
Couta,

in hindsight - I do apologise somewhat for flying off the handle at you. Being actively involved in club admin, it hit a nerve for me.

I do see your point. I know our club is constantly pushing back at the certification requirements that AS continues to pile on our volunteer trainers.  We have no paid staff, our team of helpers is mostly young teens, and AS's focus seems to be an every increasing certification hamster wheel and trying to sell us train-the-trainer programs ($$).

We cannot afford to constantly certify volunteers who may only hang around for a season or two. This is doubly-so if their certification (which we ponied up for) leads them to be head-hunted by some other club who is willing to pay them for their time.

I think FKT has it - things will only change if members move to clubs who aren't in the thrall of the AS system.

 

LB 15

Cunt
random. said:
In about 2015 I saw a class association organise a non-AS RO training course.  Booked the Manly rooms and all.  As far as I can tell, of the dozen or so who completed it, only one of the trainers ever went on to do a few events a year.  Complete waste of time and money.

I asked one of them why they went to the course?  He said "I just wanted to know what RO's did and I had nothing else on that week.  The organisers made the mistake of not charging for it.
Wouldn't hurt everyone to do an RO's course. I think I learnt more about starting  'yanking flags' on the start boat than I did in years of racking up. Might create a bit more empathy and understanding towards the RO.

 

Rambler

Super Anarchist
1,041
632
East Coast OZ
Things are getting worse.

A nearby club has had added to their insurance policy that they are not covered unless a qualified instructor is overseeing any training activities they run.

So you don't need to be an AS school, but in the country where I am, maintiaing an AS qualification has become all but impossible if you don't have an AS school. Their recertification requirements are just too hard and expensive to meet otherwise.

So bit by bit all the doors are bing closed on clubs without AS certifiaction. And certainly their requirements for certification of volunteer assistant instructors is a major barrier against getting AS school certification.

 

Couta

Super Anarchist
1,130
845
Australia
Things are getting worse.

A nearby club has had added to their insurance policy that they are not covered unless a qualified instructor is overseeing any training activities they run.

So you don't need to be an AS school, but in the country where I am, maintiaing an AS qualification has become all but impossible if you don't have an AS school. Their recertification requirements are just too hard and expensive to meet otherwise.

So bit by bit all the doors are bing closed on clubs without AS certifiaction. And certainly their requirements for certification of volunteer assistant instructors is a major barrier against getting AS school certification.
So what is the definition of a "Qualified" instructor...?? 

 

LB 15

Cunt
So what is the definition of a "Qualified" instructor...?? 
One would expect that it is someone who attended an instructor course run by their State Member body (or sub agent or what ever they are called now) or in the case of junior instructors, by a senior instructor through a club. I helped write and rolled out the national 'Keelboat' scheme for them about 12 years ago IIRC. We set it up with the RYA model. Candidates pass a 4 day instructor qualifying course then attend a two day update every 5 years. Any real stars have their cards marked to be invited to attend a senior instructor course after a few seasons experience. The system works by spotting tossers early and not letting them in.

But I have no idea how it works now. I think many junior instructors are simply anointed by the club coach without much formal training. I don't blame them. It isn't brain surgery, there is fuck-all money in it and many are happy to do it for free.

But AS will want a few shillings each time something with their logo on it is given out.

 

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
Re. SailPass, I was crewing an RPAYC race the other day (inshore) and a crew list was mandatory. Having a valid SailPass with all your details filled in isn't sufficient, because there's no connection between SailPass and SailSys. So you end up filling out your details twice.

What also came as a surprise was that I'd registered for a free SailPass for the date of the race via RANSA, but then read the RPAYC NOR which modifies Rule 46:

3.9 The attention of Owners and/or Persons-in-Charge is drawn to RRS 46 Person in Charge and Crew eligibility. RRS 46 is amended as follows:
(a) All persons on board that are not members of RPAYC, shall register for a RPAYC Sail Pass for each day they intend to compete in an event or race that is organised by the RPAYC. SailPass registration shall be prior to the event or race starting. All required fields shall be completed.
3.10 Sail Passes acquired at other Clubs, are not valid at RPAYC.


So a SailPass is not enough, in some cases it might need to be a SailPass from the club organizing the event. Fortunately RPAYC's SailPasses are free, but it's not hard to imagine that clubs who charge for SailPasses will probably start requiring a SailPass issued by them.

I've moved to a new area, and the local club in this area wants visiting AS members to buy a $15 sailpass for each race. I'm not sure that was the original intent of the system (at least as I understood it) and was surprised to hear other clubs are doing something similar.
 
Last edited:

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
6,749
1,483
Brisvegas
Just been filling in my cat 5 certificate for the new financial year and of course in ASs infinite wisdom, these days it needs to be audited. I only started racing my boat this year, so last financial years cat 5 was audited only 6 months ago.

I use the term "financial year" because the July 1st new year matches nothing in the sailing year. Clubs tend to start their race year in spring. Th July 1st date is in the middle of the winter series. AS rule changes often take effect on Jan 1st, not July 1st

July 1st made very little sense in the past but it was no big deal when there was no mandatory audit, but club auditors must be busy right now.

The mandatory audit is an onerous requirement as it stands at the moment, but what do you expect from an organisation that's only focus is on sucking up to Government for funding and pleasing the mega rich maxi, TP etc owners.

Audits make sense and can be helpful when moving up a category. However when renewing your certificate, what has happened since the last time? I'm my boats case, I serviced my lifejackets & fire extinguishers. I checked the dates of my flares (from the last cat 5 form) and replaced some consumables in my first aid kit. Job done except the audit.

The way the rules are currently structured, the July 1 mandated safety Audit adds very little to zero to the onboard safety.

At the club racing level (5-7) audits should only be made mandatory for the first time a boat has a certificate at a certain level or when major rule changes occur.

Safety certificates should also be valid for 12 months regardless of the date submitted/audited. All clubs use or should be using computerised systems for managing their racing, so different expiry dates is no longer an issue.


I would address this to our resident AS Head of Safety Rules but as I don't own a $1m racer my opinion will be worth less than $0.02 to AS ............
 

LB 15

Cunt
BTW, as owner are you paying for my sail pass for the regatta? I also will require a car to pick me up from home on the day morning. I know I only live 100 mts from the club, but I am a very lazy cunt. As you will find out during the series. Is there a nice dry spot back in the members stand for me?
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
3,990
1,054
Southern Ocean
I've moved to a new area, and the local club in this area wants visiting AS members to buy a $15 sailpass for each race. I'm not sure that was the original intent of the system (at least as I understood it) and was surprised to hear other clubs are doing something similar.
That was always the intention, just AS was too fucking dishonest to say so.
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
3,990
1,054
Southern Ocean
Just been filling in my cat 5 certificate for the new financial year and of course in ASs infinite wisdom, these days it needs to be audited. I only started racing my boat this year, so last financial years cat 5 was audited only 6 months ago.

I use the term "financial year" because the July 1st new year matches nothing in the sailing year. Clubs tend to start their race year in spring. Th July 1st date is in the middle of the winter series. AS rule changes often take effect on Jan 1st, not July 1st

July 1st made very little sense in the past but it was no big deal when there was no mandatory audit, but club auditors must be busy right now.

The mandatory audit is an onerous requirement as it stands at the moment, but what do you expect from an organisation that's only focus is on sucking up to Government for funding and pleasing the mega rich maxi, TP etc owners.

Audits make sense and can be helpful when moving up a category. However when renewing your certificate, what has happened since the last time? I'm my boats case, I serviced my lifejackets & fire extinguishers. I checked the dates of my flares (from the last cat 5 form) and replaced some consumables in my first aid kit. Job done except the audit.

The way the rules are currently structured, the July 1 mandated safety Audit adds very little to zero to the onboard safety.

At the club racing level (5-7) audits should only be made mandatory for the first time a boat has a certificate at a certain level or when major rule changes occur.

Safety certificates should also be valid for 12 months regardless of the date submitted/audited. All clubs use or should be using computerised systems for managing their racing, so different expiry dates is no longer an issue.


I would address this to our resident AS Head of Safety Rules but as I don't own a $1m racer my opinion will be worth less than $0.02 to AS ............
Thought you were racing at Shorncliffe, last time anyone from AS went there Deliverance was playing at the box office.
and it was sure bet that they never returned from a trip up the creek.
 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
6,749
1,483
Brisvegas
BTW, as owner are you paying for my sail pass for the regatta? I also will require a car to pick me up from home on the day morning. I know I only live 100 mts from the club, but I am a very lazy cunt. As you will find out during the series. Is there a nice dry spot back in the members stand for me?
Do you at least change your seating position on the boat so you can at least be useful ballast?
 

Don

Super Anarchist
1,105
43
Melbourne
Does the NRL audit mouth guards?
Are Ice Hockey players skates audited for sharpness ?
Does the AFL audit the fitment of player shorts ?
Is the length of Netball players skirts audited and if so when, and can I have the job position description please ?
I was so pissed off with the state of yacht racing I sold my boat, and took up Netflix.
 
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