Australian Sailing

mccroc

Anarchist
616
381
Sydney
So earlier this year I asked who was going to be the first to get a DSQ for not filling out the crew lists/ sail pass crew.
Anyone?
Anyone?
I asked at one club here in WA what if I register 4 crew but take 8?
Answer was, we don’t have the people to go around and compare how many are actually on a boat versus how many you said.
Same club has members who downright refuse to do crew sign on and they don’t DSQ them.
Pretty pointless system.
But that’s what you expect from AS. So incompetent that they couldn’t organise a root in a brothel with a fistful of $50’s.
As Chairman of Protests I wrote to the Board of my club to ask what their position was on this issue - I didn't/don't want a yacht coming second in the pointscore to protest the leading boat for not complying with RRS26 - no valid response. I think they want to be seen to comply without complying! I guess we will see, but I still think the prescription is self serving and an insult to the sailing community. If someone protests I can't see how a yacht could defend themselves from being dsq. Could it be argued that not complying would be considered a breach of Fair Sailing and therefore DNE?
 

Jethrow

Super Anarchist
So earlier this year I asked who was going to be the first to get a DSQ for not filling out the crew lists/ sail pass crew.
Anyone?
Anyone?
I asked at one club here in WA what if I register 4 crew but take 8?
Answer was, we don’t have the people to go around and compare how many are actually on a boat versus how many you said.
Same club has members who downright refuse to do crew sign on and they don’t DSQ them.
Pretty pointless system.
But that’s what you expect from AS. So incompetent that they couldn’t organise a root in a brothel with a fistful of $50’s.
At our club's season skippers briefing we were told that first offence for incorrect crew lists would be 3 places penalty with second & further offences earning DSQ.

It was not said how the crew list would be monitored, however the only way I can see it happening is a simple head count at best.
 

Jethrow

Super Anarchist
I didn't/don't want a yacht coming second in the pointscore to protest the leading boat for not complying with RRS26 (should it be RRS 46?)
I would dearly hope that crew list information is covered by the privacy act and therefore not public knowledge or available to other parties.

RRS 46 shouldn't be protestable by another competitor.
 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
6,965
1,571
Brisvegas
Well GS and his cronies have stuffed sailing in Hobart for this season. Without any open consultation, they decided that they would do away with the AMS system and make ORC mandatory if you want to sail competitively.
They tried this with IRC a couple of years ago and ran both AMS and IRC - the average joe strongly favoured AMS.
Sure, AMS may not be as sophisticated as IRC/ORC, but it was a well accepted system that had wide support across the fleets and minimised owner costs.

Maybe there needs to be a Keelboat Club Racer association created. Perhaps with enough members some control can be wrestled back.

This move in Hobart sounds like a good rallying point for the start of such an association. Get all the owners of AMS rated racers together to discuss some action. For example, boycott ORCc and only race PHS to send a message to the clubs, etc….

If owners don’t get together and fight back then there are only two choices for us, be sheep or quit.
 

trt131

Super Anarchist
1,594
321
I email my crew list in before every race from the boat. The form only asks for name, address and mobile. Nothing else!
You guys need to read the rules. It has got nothing to do with the clubs. Its up to the "Person in Charge" to ensure the boat complies with all the rules and regulations to be able to race. Clubs do not have to collect names or use Sail Pass. A boat can protest another boat over any of the RRS and AS Prescriptions (except rule 69). Clubs should not take on the role of policing the rules. Ignore the prescription and let a boat protest. The protestor has to prove his case, the protestee does not have prove that the boat complies. How is the protesting boat going to get the crew info without the club breaking the Privacy Act.
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,013
1,082
Southern Ocean
You guys need to read the rules. It has got nothing to do with the clubs. Its up to the "Person in Charge" to ensure the boat complies with all the rules and regulations to be able to race. Clubs do not have to collect names or use Sail Pass. A boat can protest another boat over any of the RRS and AS Prescriptions (except rule 69). Clubs should not take on the role of policing the rules. Ignore the prescription and let a boat protest. The protestor has to prove his case, the protestee does not have prove that the boat complies. How is the protesting boat going to get the crew info without the club breaking the Privacy Act.
The AS member search maybe.
FFS
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,013
1,082
Southern Ocean
I thought you'd voted with your feet (keel) and given racing away for a while?

We're hauling out in a week, be on the hard for somewhere between 2 weeks and a month depending on weather and my laziness. Kettering. Drop by if you're around.

FKT
I have , just made an offer on a new long range powerboat as well.
Current powerboat is out on the attenuator at present and will be till November.
Cheers
 
Read an interesting internal ‘warts and all‘ report of the Boy Scout movement here in Australia a few years ago.They clearly identified that if they do not change and stay relevant they would not survive let alone grow.Maybe those steering the AS ship should read the report.It would appear to me that under the current inept culture that they seem to display indicates that to the average constituents that are not that relevant and not doing a good job.As any savvy elected official know their tenure of their elect position is predicated on taking the masses with them.Unfortunately from what I can gather those representing us at AS are not democratically elected so no need to take the masses with you.
 

Coastal_Fox

Member
247
102
New England
Just released. The Australian Sailing 2022-2024 Participation Plan. https://www.sailing.org.au/news/our-roadmap-for-growth-as-participation-and-membership-plan/

A couple of questions.
View attachment 539547
How can they have 250,000+ participants with only 100,000 members? And ...
View attachment 539551
What's the difference between a new participant, a re-engaging participant and a club member? It seems bizarre that a Participation Policy doesn't have a definition of participation.
This probably isnt a super helpful comment, but, i really love the idea of dinghy cruising and most of what i see/read about it comes from Australia, and i wish we had that kind of sailing culture here where im at in the states.
 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,510
2,551
Australia
My new sport recently received an $11 million federal grant. As it has no ties to the Olympics, the money was put into grass roots investment, with track, lighting, pits and amenities upgrades.
On race days the pits and stands are bursting at the seams, the junior brackets are going gang busters, it's busier than I've ever seen it.

A sport that invests in all competitors. No sanctioned abuse or bullying. Participation in ma and pa brackets at all time highs.
I've no idea why.

willowbank.jpg
 
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mccroc

Anarchist
616
381
Sydney
I would dearly hope that crew list information is covered by the privacy act and therefore not public knowledge or available to other parties.

RRS 46 shouldn't be protestable by another competitor.
RRS46 sorry! And i agree a competitor shouldn't be able to protest RRS46.
 

Brass

Super Anarchist
2,759
171
RRS 46 shouldn't be protestable by another cocompetitor.

i think this is exactly arse about.

Race Officers and protest committees should not be protesting boats for breaking rules.

Leave it to the racers.

If th racers decide not to protest because they think its a bad and stupid rule, so be it.
 

Brass

Super Anarchist
2,759
171
As Chairman of Protests I wrote to the Board of my club to ask what their position was on this issue - I didn't/don't want a yacht coming second in the pointscore to protest the leading boat for not complying with RRS46
Its not up to judges to want or not want any particular outcome. Judges' job is to decide valid protests according to the rules.
 

Jethrow

Super Anarchist
i think this is exactly arse about.

Race Officers and protest committees should not be protesting boats for breaking rules.

Leave it to the racers.

If th racers decide not to protest because they think its a bad and stupid rule, so be it.
My reason for saying this is it's an administrative rule not a racing rule.

Competitors have zero information about if a boat has complied and therefore have no basis to protest. Any protest in regard to RRS-46 is purely a fishing exercise.

Edit: @Brass I know you're a rules guy but do you realise that the Australian RRS changes rule 46 and requires any person on a boat to be a member of an affiliated club?

The WS RRS46 says
A boat shall have on board a person in charge designated by the
member or organization that entered the boat. See rule 75


while the AS RRS46 says:
A boat shall have on board a person in charge designated by
the member or organization that entered the boat. See rule 75.

From 1st January 2022, all persons on board a boat while
racing shall be members of a Club affiliated to Australian
Sailing and have an Australian Sailing number, or hold a valid
Sail Pass, or if an international competitor, be a member of
club affiliated to a World Sailing recognised Member National
Authority.
 

mccroc

Anarchist
616
381
Sydney
Its not up to judges to want or not want any particular outcome. Judges' job is to decide valid protests according to the rules.
Yes, but as Jethrow has pointed out, the above RRS46 AS Prescription does not exist anywhere else in the world. Not all clubs are rabid followers of stupid rules and although the prescription does apply to everyone, in practice I hope most clubs ignore it on the basis it is impossible to enforce without also enforcing crew lists with membership numbers, which becomes an administrative nightmare, and would also put people like me off racing at all. It ends the whole idea of a novice turning up to a club and going out for a race - well without signing up.

It is just a grab for more Olympic money in Australia by increasing participation numbers, and has no relevance whatsoever to club racing - particularly non-spinnaker twilights. There is really no club representation at Australian Sailing other than the clubs that need sponsorship to exist. I can't see that there is any way for a lifelong sailor like me to complain to AS.

So if I want to head off an issue by informing my Board of the ramifications of a stupid rule, then I think that is sensible, but in no way means I want a particular outcome. Unfortunately too many of the younger members of clubs believe the lies AS tell them - that it's all about insurance and a way to increase club's income. Someone posted that crew lists should be compulsory even for harbour races, because what if a crew member fell overboard, and no one knew their name? Well - I would ask has that ever happened? Could it happen, maybe. But so could a tsunami take out a harbour race.
 

Brass

Super Anarchist
2,759
171
I'm excruciatingly aware of the AS Prescription to RRS 46.

So AS has invented a rule that it's not practical for competitors to enforce in accordance with RRS Basic Principles Sportsmanship and the Rules, harms participation, and is unpopular with competitors.

Jolly good luck to AS.

I'll start to believe that crew lists contribute to safety when I see a Maritime Safety Regulation requiring every 12 ft tinnie, and every 60 ft gin palace from the Fish Markets to complete a crew and passenger manifest.

I'm also aware that in France, every sailor requires a licence to go racing, and in NZ the government can prevent any boat from putting to sea if they don't think you're safe enough.

Can you imagine what will happen if the NSW government realises that people are paying what is effectively a licence fee to go sailing? How long before the government decides they want a piece of that?
 




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