Australian Sailing

mccroc

Anarchist
609
381
Sydney
I'm excruciatingly aware of the AS Prescription to RRS 46.

So AS has invented a rule that it's not practical for competitors to enforce in accordance with RRS Basic Principles Sportsmanship and the Rules, harms participation, and is unpopular with competitors.

Jolly good luck to AS.

I'll start to believe that crew lists contribute to safety when I see a Maritime Safety Regulation requiring every 12 ft tinnie, and every 60 ft gin palace from the Fish Markets to complete a crew and passenger manifest.

I'm also aware that in France, every sailor requires a licence to go racing, and in NZ the government can prevent any boat from putting to sea if they don't think you're safe enough.

Can you imagine what will happen if the NSW government realises that people are paying what is effectively a licence fee to go sailing? How long before the government decides they want a piece of that?
All good points. So far NSW has been pretty good - enshrined RRS between yachts racing under an aquatic licence, and even better streamlined the Aquatic licence process.

Now all they need to do is understand that as much as they want us to obey the KFC mark at Bradley's Head, we can't according to the same rules!
 

jeff

Member
56
21
Maybe there needs to be a Keelboat Club Racer association created. Perhaps with enough members some control can be wrestled back.

This move in Hobart sounds like a good rallying point for the start of such an association. Get all the owners of AMS rated racers together to discuss some action. For example, boycott ORCc and only race PHS to send a message to the clubs, etc….

If owners don’t get together and fight back then there are only two choices for us, be sheep or quit.
There was an owners association in 2008 and the owners felt that the cost of IRC was too high, especially when only 3 of the boats ever got a place. We looked at ORCc which started at $75 per boat but increased to $150 per boat and then GRS finished the idea off by increasing the fee to $300 per boat. As a consequence of price gouging the owners decided to dump it and association voted to explore AMS. GRS has never forgiven me for my role in this, but it really was an own goal. To date, AMS has consistently outperformed IRC despite the puritans calling it a mickey mouse rule. Last summer the 2 handed series had a 3 way tie for first place, boats being a Farr 1020, Hobie 33 and a Young 88. What else do you want from a $70 rule? The Corinthian spirit of the AMS people has had an enormous effect in growing Club racing fleets. They have reinvested their earnings into supporting local events. The BYC has had an AMS championship with sponsorship provided by YRSA. They made a calibrated loadcell available gratis anytime we wanted it. They turn over certificates overnight, so that the slackers who need to get their paperwork in place to race get to do so. During CoVid, when it really mattered, YRSA wavered all fees despite being in lockdown themselves. They kept the lights on so the rest of us could go racing. Dunno how a rule that costs more, and doubtful it will perform better will increase participation. AS should be licking their chops noting that the legwork was being done by volunteers, so that they could pick off the lucrative bit by flogging International Rules to the rich end of town, and no doubt the Naval Architects love the consultancy work. As an aside as ORCc is transparent, can anyone get a line diagram for an offset file? Be good to know that the hull offset file you've been given can be checked. I guess I can pay a consultant to run a few trials and see which file works best for me and my modified keel and my mate who added a scoop would be interested too. I really can't see anything positive for growing the sport at a local level. The Victorians had the right idea, run the rules together and dump the dud.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,061
3,240
Tasmania, Australia
Can you imagine what will happen if the NSW government realises that people are paying what is effectively a licence fee to go sailing sailboat racing? How long before the government decides they want a piece of that?

FTFY, because sailing is doing fine, lots of us with boats go sailing and fuck AS.

FKT
 

jeff

Member
56
21
Have to say, the private wager over bottle of rum works for me. The fiercest racing I've ever done here is the mumm 36's worlds in the Crown Series. 5 mumms, first over the line gets a point, nothing for 2nd to fifth. Losers have to buy the winner a slab but you have to drink it on the winners boat. We always have an epic party at the end of the Crown.
In the early days of the owners association we even looked at fixed TCF, with handicaps decided by the owners. After a few iterations these looked pretty close to pecking order that we'd normally see in the finishing order. Couldn't get it past the clubs, but it would have sorted out the rating bandits.
 
There was an owners association in 2008 and the owners felt that the cost of IRC was too high, especially when only 3 of the boats ever got a place. We looked at ORCc which started at $75 per boat but increased to $150 per boat and then GRS finished the idea off by increasing the fee to $300 per boat. As a consequence of price gouging the owners decided to dump it and association voted to explore AMS.
Well, one suggestion would be to run a pirate AMS pennant in parallel with the sanctioned ones. Sail under club sanctioned PHS as per usual, but keep renewing the AMS certificates (cost of a snap shackle), start up a website or Facebook page, and using the elapsed times, score interested boats by AMS. Have an unofficial, unsanctioned prize night at Shippies.
 

The Dark Knight

Super Anarchist
6,876
1,540
Brisvegas
Well, one suggestion would be to run a pirate AMS pennant in parallel with the sanctioned ones. Sail under club sanctioned PHS as per usual, but keep renewing the AMS certificates (cost of a snap shackle), start up a website or Facebook page, and using the elapsed times, score interested boats by AMS. Have an unofficial, unsanctioned prize night at Shippies.
That's the attitude to take when you are thankfull for AS driving club racing and growing it, because of their leadership. You dont want to appear ungreatful for their hard effort and don't want to upset the applecart by suggesting AMS is more suitable.
 

LB 15

Cunt
Maybe there needs to be a Keelboat Club Racer association created. Perhaps with enough members some control can be wrestled back.

This move in Hobart sounds like a good rallying point for the start of such an association. Get all the owners of AMS rated racers together to discuss some action. For example, boycott ORCc and only race PHS to send a message to the clubs, etc….

If owners don’t get together and fight back then there are only two choices for us, be sheep or quit.
We formed the Qld offshore owners association a few years back. But 4 of the original 12 (including me, livia and shaggy) just threw our hands in the air and walked away from the sport. We were fucked over so completely by the system that there is no coming back.
 

Couta

Super Anarchist
1,162
903
Australia
^^^Or another way of looking at it is : that's the attitude that can show people a way forward...and let the participation numbers tell the story...rather than get caught up in the aggravation and politics and ego...
So far, despite the clear dissatisfaction expressed by many here (and elsewhere) we've felt locked into the system. Secret Experiment's suggestion breaks the deadlock...and it's easy & simple to implement!! Surely worth a crack!?
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,011
1,080
Southern Ocean
We formed the Qld offshore owners association a few years back. But 4 of the original 12 (including me, livia and shaggy) just threw our hands in the air and walked away from the sport. We were fucked over so completely by the system that there is no coming back.
Funnily enough I have the renewal for that Association on my desk at the moment.
Out of the 12 original members only 2 are still racing under the AS regime.
6 of the 12 have sold their race boats and another 4 race boats are tied to the dock and not been raced.

These are owners with literally thousands of sea miles between them, countless major regattas and decades of knowledge and experience who have walked out the door to other things.

But of course, these owners are the problem!
 

Couta

Super Anarchist
1,162
903
Australia
LB...Mate....I know things look dark right now...and there are clearly forces at play here that can bring the most resilient to their knees....but the sun will rise again....there is the promise of things improving...maybe not as fast as you'd like, but......sooner than you might expect. I say this with certainty...as a mental health professional that deals with life's inequity and cruelty on a daily basis...and I can tell you with absolute conviction...Golf is not the answer. We see the tragedy of people taking this irretrievable step every day... the anger, the guilt of those that stood by, the endless "what ifs" and "if onlys". The ripples of such a decision will work through the generations...I implore you to stop, think of your friends and family and commit to just one more day...just one...you can do that. Because you know...deep down... That "Golf is a long term solution to life's temporary problems"...and there's no going back.
 

trt131

Super Anarchist
1,594
321
AMS has consistently outperformed IRC despite the puritans calling it a mickey mouse rule
AMS is a Mickey Mouse rule. The only reason owners use it is because it is cheap. When you take the total cost of campaining a boat in a Club 's series over summer, the cost of AMS is piddling as is the cost of ORCc. AMS is Victorian based and has failed to get a decent foothold in other States. Very presumptuous of Victoria to call it Australian Measurement System, a bit like AFL. Bite the bullet and get an ORCc certificate and encourage others to do so as well and you will have some great racing.
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,011
1,080
Southern Ocean
No going back for me then although Greasy Al always would say to me when I complained about running the boat “there is always golf”

B756E78B-8C92-4BC2-ACD5-40568B32012D.jpeg
 

Livia

Super Anarchist
4,011
1,080
Southern Ocean
AMS is a Mickey Mouse rule. The only reason owners use it is because it is cheap. When you take the total cost of campaining a boat in a Club 's series over summer, the cost of AMS is piddling as is the cost of ORCc. AMS is Victorian based and has failed to get a decent foothold in other States. Very presumptuous of Victoria to call it Australian Measurement System, a bit like AFL. Bite the bullet and get an ORCc certificate and encourage others to do so as well and you will have some great racing.
Yet at its heart it very similar to IRC
 

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