Australian Sailing

kdock44

Member
87
35
alaska
I recall that a few years ago a non affiliated club in Pittwater was warned that anyone sailing with them may be banned from AS sanctioned events, but I am sure that didn't go anywhere.
Right on.

Lots of Businesses and Organizations make unenforceable threats or claims. Suckers and marks sadly fall for it frequently. Receiving a cease and desist notice should be a right of passage.
 

Jason AUS

Super Anarchist
2,292
358
Sydney
Good god you are a moron. The IRPCS and SOLAS are law you arse clown. What are you some kind of sovereign citizen now? Next time you get pulled over for speeding or get caught getting a blowjob from a street hooker, try telling the arresting officer that those laws don't apply to you because you don't own the IP of these laws.
Now calm down and tell us the real story how you upset AS so badly they wanted to kick you out of the sport.
5A93E142-6EF1-46F9-89C1-5420609D13AD.jpeg
 

LB 15

Cunt
You don't have to be a "sucker or mark" to respond to a threat of your members, and the members of other clubs who attend your regatta, being banned. All that AS has to do is to advise clubs that certain people are banned and cannot enter regattas. To get them to retract it would probably take a least a few legal letters, and who wants to end up with those bills?
I am guessing your desire to avoid 'legal letters' is why you post this bullshit anonymously?
 

Curious2

Anarchist
937
535
I've had enough of the harassment by that liar LB15 so I'm out. I've got enough to do dealing with the situation to spend time putting up with someone who can't post a single honest sentence.
 

mccroc

Anarchist
674
464
Sydney
Okay, so I just wasted an hour or so reading the 208 page Regulations of World Sailing. Nowhere in there can I find anything about a penalty for any member of a MNA for sailing in an event not affiliated to WS, other than if it is a Prohibited Event, as listed on the WS website. A search of the website shows no list. The main events they worry about is where the word "World" appears and where they haven't been paid an event fee!

Interestingly, to apply to be a MNA of WS, you only have to be an organisation that "represents officially through membership or affiliation, a significant majority of the yacht or sailing clubs and other sailing organizations of the country;". That suggests that in many cases not every club or association sailing around the world is, or must be, affiliated. So if a MNA doesn't represent a club, how can they penalise you for sailing with that club?

However, AS have the following part of their Participant Terms and Conditions:3.3 Australian Sailing reserves the right to, at any time, in its absolute discretion and without notice: a. to revoke the entitlement and access of an Individual to the Individual Membership, or b. to amend, materially alter or terminate the operation of the Individual Membership.

So in other words we are all sailing at the pleasure of these fuckwits!
 
So, the AS threatening letter exists.
There must be an Australian lawyer on this site who could do the necessary research to establish whether it’s legal.
It seems more and more people are pissed off with AS so what do we the sailors do about it?
Where is GRS?
 

duncan (the other one)

Super Anarchist
5,673
671
Siderney
So, the AS threatening letter exists.
There must be an Australian lawyer on this site who could do the necessary research to establish whether it’s legal.
It seems more and more people are pissed off with AS so what do we the sailors do about it?
Where is GRS?

I'm no lawyer - but the relevant WS regs AS are citing are below.

Solution appears to be ditch the RRS and use IRPCAS or something else, then you're not violating RRS 89.1, and hence nor WS 19.20 .


19.19 Competition Eligibility or World Sailing Eligibility (or both) may be suspended or revoked:
(a) by a National Authority (for events within its own jurisdiction) or by World Sailing:
(i) for a breach of RRS 69.1(a); or
(ii) for competing, within the preceding two years, in an event that the competitor knew or should reasonably have known was a Prohibited Event;

19.20 A ‘Prohibited Event’ means an event:

...
(d) that does not conform to the requirements of RRS 89.1 and is not otherwise approved by World Sailing;

RRS 89.1 is

89.1 Organizing Authority Races shall be organized by an organizing authority, which shall be
(a) World Sailing;
(b) a member national authority of World Sailing;
(c) an affiliated club;
.. etc
 

Curious2

Anarchist
937
535
I'm trying to walk away from here, but not even ditching RRS will prevent people from being banned for daring to sail as they want to sail.

The way it works is this;

RRS 89.1 requires events to be run by affiliated bodies. Whether or not they use RRS is irrelevant according to the rule. There's nothing that says that using IRPCS allows anyone to escape the ambit of 89.1.

Regulation 19.15 (d) says that any event that breaches 89.1 (ie is run by a non-affiliated body) is a "Prohibited Event". Whether or not an event uses RRS is irrelevant under this reg.

Regulation 19.14 (a) (ii) says that anyone who sails in a "Prohibited Event" may have their Competition Eligibilty revoked.

Regulation 19.2 says that "An individual who does not have Competition Eligibility....shall not compete in any competition in the sport of sailing to which the RRS or these Regulations apply in whole or in part."

19.3 says that a boat with a crew that does not have Competition Eligibility will be DSQd.

19.24 says that you can't apply to have Competition Eligibility restored for three years. Even after three years, the sailor guilty of the heinous crime of sailing in an unaffiliated event must prove that they have changed their way to get a hearing; 19.24(a).

SO - anyone who takes part in a race held by a non-affililiated body is taking part in a prohibited event, and can therefore be suspended for three years or more.

No other sport seems to have these draconian restrictions that require ALL events to be held by an affiliated body, or the contestants to be banned from ALL affiliated events for years or potentially for life.

We've probably all played football, snooker, cricket, baseball or other games in comps of one sort or another. Sailing seems to be the only sport that says that ALL comps must be run by bodies paying cash to the ruling bodies.

I bet 1000 to one that everyone on WS and AS committees and involved in these rules has played many competitions in sports and games that have not been run by affiliated bodies. In sports like football, for example, there are major non-affiliated leisure comps. But apparently what's good for all other sports is not good for sailing.

Although it's out of my area, I would say that it's likely that a court would rule against AS banning anyone for a couple of reasons (it's not worth going into more detail on SA, where lying would-be bullies are allowed to run rampant) but who wants to be dragged through court and pay legal bills just to go sailing?

But apparently letting LB15's lies go unchallenged is more important than all of this stuff. I'll try to walk away again but thought I should just point out how the banning process works.
 
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sunseeker

Super Anarchist
4,037
942
I'm trying to walk away from here, but not even ditching RRS will prevent people from being banned for daring to sail as they want to sail.

The way it works is this;

RRS 89.1 requires events to be run by affiliated bodies. Whether or not they use RRS is irrelevant according to the rule. There's nothing that says that using IRPCS allows anyone to escape the ambit of 89.1.

Regulation 19.15 (d) says that any event that breaches 89.1 (ie is run by a non-affiliated body) is a "Prohibited Event". Whether or not an event uses RRS is irrelevant under this reg.

Regulation 19.14 (a) (ii) says that anyone who sails in a "Prohibited Event" may have their Competition Eligibilty revoked.

Regulation 19.2 says that "An individual who does not have Competition Eligibility....shall not compete in any competition in the sport of sailing to which the RRS or these Regulations apply in whole or in part."

19.3 says that a boat with a crew that does not have Competition Eligibility will be DSQd.

19.24 says that you can't apply to have Competition Eligibility restored for three years.

SO - anyone who takes part in a race held by a non-affililiated body is taking part in a prohibited event, and can therefore be suspended for three years or more. Even after three years, the sailor guilty of the heinous crime of sailing in an unaffiliated event must prove that they have changed their way to get a hearing; 19.24(a).

No other sport seems to have these draconian restrictions that require ALL events to be held by an affiliated body, or the contestants to be banned from ALL affiliated events for years or potentially for life.

I bet 1000 to one that everyone on WS and AS involved in these rules has played many competitions in sports and games that have not been run by affiliated bodies. In sports like football, for example, there are major non-affiliated leisure comps.

Although it's out of my area, I would say that it's likely that a court would rule against AS banning anyone for a couple of reasons (it's not worth going into more detail on SA, where lying would-be bullies are allowed to run rampant) but who wants to be dragged through court and pay legal bills just to go sailing?

But apparently letting LB15's lies go unchallenged is more important than all of this stuff. I'll try to walk away again but thought I should just point out how the banning process works.
I have had LOSER BOY 15 (which probably stands for 15 millimeter cock) on ignore for several years. He is one of the worst trolls here.

Any organization with all of these rules designed to control and exclude by their very nature would be incapable of spelling fun if you spotted them the F and U.

While some say he’s a good guy, Alistar Murray is the President of your NGB and as such pressure needs to be put on him. Even though he now has some lofty title there now, best thing everyone can do is publicly boycott Ronstan.

World Sailing is toothless. They aren’t in any position to be spending time or resources chasing people who sail in some event that isn’t blessed by WS that doesn’t use the words World Championship. WS is a broke ass organization still dealing with the consequences of the move to London. The Chinese President of WS is not about to start litigation over this, and sure as shit doesn’t want to have to defend. A guy like that would never appear on the witness stand.

Why don’t you guys just be the tough cunts the world knows you to be and just tell AS to fuck off. You’ll go to sea in what is arguably the most brutal 600 mile race in the world, but you cower about some stupid words on paper written by people who have a need for control that shows their fundamental weakness.
 

LB 15

Cunt
Operating charter fleets for nearly 3 decades I have been the OA for 100's of 'Non Sanctioned' regattas, using the RRS, but without a club or silver card in sight. And yet AYF/YA/AS never wrote me any threatening letters about that (And let me assure you that after being the main instigator in bringing the RYA to Australia, I was not on AS's Christmas card list.) So whatever the Curious one did to piss them off it must have been a biggy. Sadly as Curious can not lie straight in bed, we will never know. However now that Cumseeker has swiped right on Curious's grinder profile, he may let it slip during some pillow biting talk.

Interesting that Cumseeker talks tough while the peak body in his own fucked up country is a complete basket case. The NRA has more influence on him than US Sailing.
 

LB 15

Cunt
Are individuals members?

That's not the way I understand it, and if not that clause has no effect!
To do that they will have to get the individuals club to bin the person. If they wanted to go down the path of 'Misconduct'...
The Racing Rules of Sailing provide for National Authorities to receive reports from protest committees of misconduct or alleged misconduct. When Australian Sailing is in receipt of such a report it shall conduct an investigation in accordance with its established procedures and may conduct a hearing to consider taking disciplinary action within its jurisdiction.
AS would have to get the individuals club to make a report, but since the club was non affiliated they can't. So if they tried to ban an individual it would wind up in court and AS would be thoroughly reamed in the arse and get costs awarded against them. Curious has such a boner for AS that it could be that the letter he posted is fake. After all he ain't game to put his name to it or any of his claims.
 
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