Autopilots

El Borracho

Verified User
6,836
2,793
Pacific Rim
with the Ray marine system using a type 1 linear drive, what is the standby resistance on the tiller like?  is it noticeable at all?  my rudder post is exposed below - trying to decide whether to go type 1 or sort a tiller pilot arrangement.  but i have no feel for how much resistance the type 1 will give when not being used
My opinion on that is: The resistance imposed by a well maintained Type 1 drive is so low as to be unnoticeable. However there is a discernible inertia effect. It indeed moves without much friction, but your motion must spin the shaft, pulleys, and clutch mechanism. I think most drivers would opt to disconnect the actuator from the rudder arm when racing. A trivial operation if the area is accessible.

The inertia effect is present with all wheel systems. Especially if the wheel is s/s rather than carbon. The weight of the wheel must be accelerated regardless of frictional resistance. That requires work. 

 

DanimalNZ

Anarchist
525
8
Perth WA
thanks, interesting - so i have a tiller - and therefore only use a tiller arm connected to the linear drive unit, i would not have the issues which flow from any pulleys (which I imagine would account for most of any resistance)?  thus, being of simpler config, its a good bet that i wouldnt notice the inertial effect?

 

El Borracho

Verified User
6,836
2,793
Pacific Rim
thanks, interesting - so i have a tiller - and therefore only use a tiller arm connected to the linear drive unit, i would not have the issues which flow from any pulleys (which I imagine would account for most of any resistance)?  thus, being of simpler config, its a good bet that i wouldnt notice the inertial effect?
The pulleys I mentioned are the toothed belt connection inside the Type 1 unit. Very low resistance but spinning the mechanism back and forth take some small effort.

The drive would be connected to a short tiller arm under-deck (300mm?). The connection is a simple ball joint slipped over a pin with a spring clip retainer. Trivial to remove and most racers do so. Casual sailors probably not.

The Type 1 could weaponize the real tiller as it swings across the cockpit. One quickly learns to not reach for the beer can thru the wheel lest a sudden turn break a wrist, or worse spill the beer.

 

james3232

Member
322
31
I wouldnt ever trust a clamp on the shaft, a keyway is the only way to go.

I personally love the raymarine st pilots. They don't look the best, but they've always performed well for me.

 

Jeff F

Member
50
25
Great Lakes
I put a Raymarine EV 200 AP with a type 1 linear drive in my Mount Gay 30 this year.  Cut the stern tube and put a gaitor seal in, and had the shaft keyed to mount the 300 mm tiller.  

I was prepared for the drag of the drive unit when hand steering, but what I hadn't considered was the restriction on rudder movement.  We had to put stops in to limit rudder rotation to about 35 degrees off center to protect the drive unit.  I have to remember that I can't spin the boat.  

I'm very happy with the performance.  But if I were doing it again I'd probably try a robust tiller mounted unit like the EV100.  

 

El Borracho

Verified User
6,836
2,793
Pacific Rim
I was prepared for the drag of the drive unit when hand steering, but what I hadn't considered was the restriction on rudder movement.  We had to put stops in to limit rudder rotation to about 35 degrees off center to protect the drive unit.  I have to remember that I can't spin the boat.  
Yes, that is another reason racers make it easy to disconnect the drive from the A/P tiller arm: rudder limits.

Worth adding an access hole to accomplish it quickly. My travel limiter, to protect the drive, is not the recommended fixed blocking. It is a strop of spectra from the quadrant (or could be A/P tiller) to a padeye about a meter forward. It too disconnects in seconds for racing.

 

DanimalNZ

Anarchist
525
8
Perth WA
still contemplating options

does or has anyone used an ST2000 for purely taxiing purposes or short term use to free up a second hand for sail changes etc when 2 handed?

for the money, thinking that could have one on deck for slapping in place when a second hand is needed for sail change/set etc

boat is 36ft, 4T displace, tiller steered

 

Rail Meat

Super Anarchist
7,193
175
Mystic, CT
25 of the 27 Class40s in the current Transat Jacques Vabre have NKE instruments and autopilots.  The other 2 have B&G.  Exactly zero have Raymarine or any other pilot.  Draw your own conclusions.

And before someone blathers about "French boats, french equipment", 24 boats in that fleet have Harken winches when they could have chosen Pontos now Karver.  That fleet chooses equipment based on its functionality utility, not nationality.  

 

Libertist

Member
50
14
Good point. 

NKE computers - very very OK

But drives? NKE, as far as I am concerned, do not manufacture hydraulic arm?

BTW - does anyone compare JEFA direct drive vs. hydraulic by NKE, in terms of speed and power consumption?

 

JonRowe

Super Anarchist
1,893
1,018
Offshore.
We talk about that a bit over in the Mini Transat thread, I still have hydraulic NKE but mines permanently attached, apparently some of the fleet now use the JEFA drive with the NKE computer but not on boats I've seen ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

23feet

New member
44
37
SF
The TP has a sensor to stop the drive motor at full travel. The ST 1000 and 2000 do not. The STs slowly destroy themselves when the ram reaches full travel and mashes against the housing.

 

longy

Overlord of Anarchy
7,013
1,296
San Diego
All pilot install directions will state not to hit the end of travel for the drive unit. Linear or hydraulic, that will destroy them. There are settings to stop the power driven movement of the drives, but you cannot exceed limits when hand steering either

 

vdm

Member
66
4
Have a Simrad TP-10 on a 1D35. Only used for deliveries but has been pretty good. Mounted in Cockpit.

Not interfaced with instruments.

 

DanimalNZ

Anarchist
525
8
Perth WA
hmm - so would i be correct in thinking that with these above cockpit tiller-pilots they would be ok for use for just taxiing purposes without sail up - ie. while you were mooring up, and in the process of hoisting main etc? (my boat is in-keeping with the 1D35)

but otherwise have limitations depending on load

 

vdm

Member
66
4
VDM - how does that TP-10 handle off-wind with main/jib up?  use much juice?
We have only used it for deliveries, have not had any problems with it but have not used it in any heavy weather or in big seas.

1D35 has a solid rudder tube, I don't think you would want to cut it.

 


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