back on a mooring after months in a marina - thoughts welcome

When sailing into my slip, when questioned, I always said the motor won't start or the prop is fouled, etc.
This,

The crew at the coast guard station at the entrance to False Creek in Vancouver eventually stopped asking me on the bullhorn if I needed assistance. It"s illegal sailing under the bridges there so they had to ask.

Thing is that old Volvo was always crapping out so it was true that I was usually sans motor. For every hour it ran I had to put 3 hours of work into the bloody thing, the ratio sucked.

I never was fussed about that engine packing it in though. Prior to my relationship with that Volvo I had crewed for a year with 2 avid sailors who owned a heavy engineless boat. That skipper could do ballet like maneuvers with that boat that seemed impossible at times.

I once asked a BC lawyer/commercial fisherman who specialized in federal waterways law what the deal was with moorings. Things may have changed since then but he claimed that the federal government legal take was if there is no boat on a mooring its viewed to have been abandoned and is legally up for grabs.

Another interesting tidbit he brought up.  If you anchor near an empty mooring before the owner returns with his boat “he” is required to avoid you as you are the grandfathered vessel. He even named the statute. Don’t ask me to dig it up, it was thirty years ago in his wheelhouse and there was beer involved so take it with a grain of salt.

I did try it on once in Gorge harbour, I normally would have moved out of courtesy but this mooring owner’s incandescent rage and barking sense of entitlement was not endearing so to in order to irritate him further I didn’t. I had politely mentioned the statute but it didn’t seem to matter so I let him get on with his heart attack.

That was thirty years ago of course and I haven’t been back for eleven years so perhaps things have changed and someone with more accurate knowledge can enlighten.

 

toddster

Super Anarchist
4,359
1,054
The Gorge
My enemy is the Osprey, a prolific and fast nest builder and dropper of dead fish parts :angry:

I also had a dumb-ass duck lay eggs in the cockpit :rolleyes:
I had an osprey leaving duck pieces on my deck one summer, but they haven't been back for a while.

Baby geese are already out! Haven't seen ducklings yet, but the dog makes a point of checking the corner of the float where he once encountered some.  Every time we pass.  

 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,701
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Kent Island!
that is funny... I am so excited when I see an Osprey

seen em in scotlandf and once down here on the deben... but only once.
Come to Maryland, you'll see more ospreys than you can count. They are everywhere here! One of them made a nest on the Bay Bridge one year and the traffic cam operators pointed the camera at the nest during slack traffic periods.

 
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kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,701
5,544
Kent Island!
This,

The crew at the coast guard station at the entrance to False Creek in Vancouver eventually stopped asking me on the bullhorn if I needed assistance. It"s illegal sailing under the bridges there so they had to ask.

Thing is that old Volvo was always crapping out so it was true that I was usually sans motor. For every hour it ran I had to put 3 hours of work into the bloody thing, the ratio sucked.

I never was fussed about that engine packing it in though. Prior to my relationship with that Volvo I had crewed for a year with 2 avid sailors who owned a heavy engineless boat. That skipper could do ballet like maneuvers with that boat that seemed impossible at times.

I once asked a BC lawyer/commercial fisherman who specialized in federal waterways law what the deal was with moorings. Things may have changed since then but he claimed that the federal government legal take was if there is no boat on a mooring its viewed to have been abandoned and is legally up for grabs.

Another interesting tidbit he brought up.  If you anchor near an empty mooring before the owner returns with his boat “he” is required to avoid you as you are the grandfathered vessel. He even named the statute. Don’t ask me to dig it up, it was thirty years ago in his wheelhouse and there was beer involved so take it with a grain of salt.

I did try it on once in Gorge harbour, I normally would have moved out of courtesy but this mooring owner’s incandescent rage and barking sense of entitlement was not endearing so to in order to irritate him further I didn’t. I had politely mentioned the statute but it didn’t seem to matter so I let him get on with his heart attack.

That was thirty years ago of course and I haven’t been back for eleven years so perhaps things have changed and someone with more accurate knowledge can enlighten.
I would be MORE than incandescent if someone anchored so close to my mooring I couldn't use it. Say I am coming home Sunday night and need to be at work Monday morning. Am I supposed to sail around in circles until they decide to move? It isn't like I could move the mooring or just go somewhere else. This would be the equivalent of parking your Winnebago in my driveway and telling me to go park somewhere else. There is no such rule here thankfully. I have had to kick people off my mooring a few times, but now it says PVT and has my phone number on it, so they can't claim it isn't mine. Also a polite person will call and ask if I need it.

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,438
3,510
Tasmania, Australia
I would be MORE than incandescent if someone anchored so close to my mooring I couldn't use it.
All moorings here are numbered and have to have the tag attached so can be checked online WRT currency. Technically you can't pick up someone else's mooring without permission but lunch stops etc, meh. Nobody seems to get stressed about that.

WRT anchoring close, seen that, doesn't worry me. But I have a steel boat with 2.1m of steel bowsprit so I know who will come off worse. Unless it's desperation it's damn rare for anyone to anchor in a mooring field here.

And let's NOT discuss roosting birds and boats. I hate cormorants with a passion. Nasty flying shit machines.

FKT

 
I would be MORE than incandescent if someone anchored so close to my mooring I couldn't use it. Say I am coming home Sunday night and need to be at work Monday morning. Am I supposed to sail around in circles until they decide to move? It isn't like I could move the mooring or just go somewhere else. This would be the equivalent of parking your Winnebago in my driveway and telling me to go park somewhere else. There is no such rule here thankfully. I have had to kick people off my mooring a few times, but now it says PVT and has my phone number on it, so they can't claim it isn't mine. Also a polite person will call and ask if I need it.


In Canada federal ownership of waterways is a thing. The provinces and communities generally have little say in the matter. It was designed to keep some legal consistency and access within all communities across a huge country for the benefit of maritime trade and passage. It was also designed to avoid local cronyism and nonsensical laws. It’s not a perfect system but I’ll take that over whatever idiocy the current bozos in the BC legislature or the Nanaimo or Vancouver city councils would surely cook up. 

A mooring in BC costs are the materials and the labour of installing that mooring, thats it. You don’t have to buy any water rights you don’t need permission you just have to make sure its out of the way of any fairway and even that is overlooked in BC. Put it anywhere you want, go ahead, no one will stop you. People will put multiple moorings down on the off chance that someday they or their friends will buy a boat or boats. This worked fine when the BC coast was sparsely populated, now not so much.

Even BC cities have been caught with their pants down. Vancouver city council thought they had jurisdiction over all local waters so put in nice new moorings in False Creek outside of the borders of the water lease the city unknowingly owned, (I knew but they wouldn’t listen to me). They were shocked when they discovered they couldn’t legally evict the freeloaders who started tying permanently to those moorings. 

One can lease water lots in Canada but they are relatively few in numbers and you don’t actually own them.  If you have a water lease you can put down legal moorings that no one can touch. Otherwise you takes your chances when putting one down. Mooring owners in BC never wanted to talk about that when I would ask them. According to my legal friend they never bought a water lease in federal waters and were never given permission to put that mooring down so don’t have any rights of ownership. They’re entitled to give it a go but there are no implied rights. It’s also one of the reasons why there were so many derelict boats on moorings in the Gulf Islands and elsewhere. The individual cottage owners who put the mooring down lay claim to that mooring by having a boat on it all the time otherwise anyone can nab it. The elephant in the room. 
As I mentioned up thread all this may have changed since I was last saIling in BC. From some rumours I’ve heard it may have. All of this gum flapping is from memory and some of my information is 30 years old and possibly inaccurate so…

With regards to your analogy.
If its your private land the driveway is on then I agree wholeheartedly with your ire.
Let me modify that analogy a bit to reflect more accurately the situation that exists in Canada as I understand it. You park a Winnebago on a federal driveway you don’t own but use regularly. You’ve also happened to put a picnic table there. In Canada regular use or the picnic table doesn’t imply any ownership of that driveway. You have every right to park your Winnebago there and use the picnic table but if you’re not around and I park there and use the picnic table I can’t be asked to leave. Equal rights to access federal land. Its what the federal waterways act is trying to address, not always successfully but it has been a stable entity for many many decades. I know there’s been pressure to dismantle or weaken the act in order to better benefit a few individuals but so far that hasn’t happened and we’ve all benefited.

As I recall I read somewhere the US government had sold off a lot sea bottom/water rights during WW2 to raise capital. Under that culture as an owner of a mooring I would have legal expectations of right of way. if someone was on or near that mooring I would be pissed as well, especially if I or my ancestors had paid a lot of money for that mooring.
My new friend up in Gorge harbour had no legal Canadian rights, all he did was drop an engine block on a whim and take up almost a quarter of the very small northwest anchorage with his 360 swing. It’s why the federal waterways act has the first come, first serve principle, installed moorings on federal seabeds have to abide by it as well, they don’t have superior rights to anchored vessels unless it is a legal mooring on leased seabed.

Anyway, I like being on a mooring.

 

Russell Brown

Super Anarchist
1,762
1,445
Port Townsend WA
I wish I lived somewhere that had good mooring fields instead of just marinas. There are very few shallow, protected bays here with mooring fields and dock space will always be outside of my income bracket. I've learned to live with trailerable boats, but that's a challenge too. There are a lot of things I don't miss about the East coast, but one thing I do miss is all of the good natural harbors with mooring fields.

 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,701
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Kent Island!
I think part of the issue is "destination moorings". Around here a mooring is the permanent home of someone's boat, no one goes around putting moorings in at every cove they like to anchor in. Plus we have space, my mooring and all the others near it take up about maybe 5% of the good space in the creek, we aren't keeping you from anchoring.

If you grab some random person's mooring while they are out sailing, they now have no place to put their boat.

 

Kris Cringle

Super Anarchist
3,291
2,930
I think part of the issue is "destination moorings". Around here a mooring is the permanent home of someone's boat, no one goes around putting moorings in at every cove they like to anchor in. Plus we have space, my mooring and all the others near it take up about maybe 5% of the good space in the creek, we aren't keeping you from anchoring.

If you grab some random person's mooring while they are out sailing, they now have no place to put their boat.


Destination moorings, that's my pet peeve. Luckily, they don't affect me that much up here with all the countless snug anchorages available. I just resent that I lose my right to anchor - entirely, to a destination mooring that likely won't be used beyond a handful of nights per season (often not used at all by the owner). 

Add a houseboat that is rarely (if ever) used and it is hard not get surly about it. :)

Destination mooring house boat (1 of 1).jpg

 

accnick

Super Anarchist
3,557
2,559
Destination moorings, that's my pet peeve. Luckily, they don't affect me that much up here with all the countless snug anchorages available. I just resent that I lose my right to anchor - entirely, to a destination mooring that likely won't be used beyond a handful of nights per season (often not used at all by the owner). 

Add a houseboat that is rarely (if ever) used and it is hard not get surly about it. :)

View attachment 508726
Perry Creek is the poster child for destination moorings. Without good local knowledge and shallow draft, you are screwed. (Yes, I know where you anchor.)

 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
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Kent Island!
Perry Creek is the poster child for destination moorings. Without good local knowledge and shallow draft, you are screwed. (Yes, I know where you anchor.)
If I were The God Of Moorings you only get one per boat unless you are willing to share.

* I know this opens up a can of worms with some guy wrecking his $10,000,000 floating condo and suing because your mooring was intended for a 30 foot boat, not a 130 foot 4 story thing :rolleyes:

 
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Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,999
3,283
Edgewater, MD
Looking at Dylan's original post, when it comes to choosing one or the other, I'm in a sort of a gray zone.

I'm on a private dock of which I am the dockmaster, in a small, quiet cove. It's not on my residential property so I don't pay outrageous waterfront property taxes but the dock is only a 2 minute walk from my front door.  We have maybe a dozen boats in the high season and 2-3 in the off season. There are moorings in the cove and I could install one if I wanted.

I would say that I have the best of both worlds. 

 

Kris Cringle

Super Anarchist
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If I were The God Of Moorings you only get one per boat unless you are willing to share.

* I know this opens up a can of worms with some guy wrecking his $10,000,000 floating condo and suing because your mooring was intended for a 30 foot boat, not a 130 foot 4 story thing :rolleyes:
Nick is right, Perry Creek is a destination mooring take-over. We're steeped in small town cronyism on this coast when it comes to politics, especially harbor usage. That only becomes more pronounced on the islands where territorial rule goes back generations. 

Perry Creek is loaded with destination moorings and very few come with land access. I believe that if it has any jurisdiction, it's by the harbor master of the twin island of North Haven, but I'm not totally sure of that as moorings don't look as though they are inspected per governance regulation. 

I do know that the family that donated much of the surrounding property to public use is not happy with the destination moorings but they're well versed in the local cronyism, and so it goes,...

On the flip side, it works pretty well supplying overnight moorings to visiting boats. Most, especially those of us locals, just use them. I don't give it another thought in fact. :)   

This is one of my favorite shots of Perry Creek taken at 5:45 am. That's Foy Brown in the skiff leaving for work from his houseboat. I'm pretty sure he sets most of the moorings. I'm hanging on a destination mooring set by a guy who has a second home on Camden Harbor. He uses this mooring a few times a season (that's more than most are used here), to overnight on his Concordia yawl. 

It's a good mooring that takes up a perfect spot to anchor. It's well marked with the word PRIVATE. That's good, because I like a little privacy. 

Perry Creek 5-45 am Foy commute.jpg

 

accnick

Super Anarchist
3,557
2,559
Nick is right, Perry Creek is a destination mooring take-over. We're steeped in small town cronyism on this coast when it comes to politics, especially harbor usage. That only becomes more pronounced on the islands where territorial rule goes back generations. 

Perry Creek is loaded with destination moorings and very few come with land access. I believe that if it has any jurisdiction, it's by the harbor master of the twin island of North Haven, but I'm not totally sure of that as moorings don't look as though they are inspected per governance regulation. 

I do know that the family that donated much of the surrounding property to public use is not happy with the destination moorings but they're well versed in the local cronyism, and so it goes,...

On the flip side, it works pretty well supplying overnight moorings to visiting boats. Most, especially those of us locals, just use them. I don't give it another thought in fact. :)   

This is one of my favorite shots of Perry Creek taken at 5:45 am. That's Foy Brown in the skiff leaving for work from his houseboat. I'm pretty sure he sets most of the moorings. I'm hanging on a destination mooring set by a guy who has a second home on Camden Harbor. He uses this mooring a few times a season (that's more than most are used here), to overnight on his Concordia yawl. 

It's a good mooring that takes up a perfect spot to anchor. It's well marked with the word PRIVATE. That's good, because I like a little privacy. 

View attachment 509258
I was not going to say what you said, but it is the absolute truth, and is a two-edged sword.

When we used to anchor in PC, people could get pretty grumpy in tight quarters. Now we pick up a mooring--we know several that are more-or-less available if you fly the right club burgee--and hope the owner doesn't show up to claim it. We generally would not go in there on a weekend until October, and avoid it until after Labor Day in any case.

 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,701
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Kent Island!
This is why my phone number is on my mooring, you can call and ask if I need it in the near future ;)

We only have ONE place on the Bay that I know of where moorings have made a significant impact in your ability to anchor, which would be Annapolis. Evey other place with mooring fields has plenty of nearby good anchorages. Overall the mooring field in Naptown is a good thing, I well recall the days before it existed and between the relatively open harbor and bad holding ground it was a Mongolian Cluster F*** every time the wind came up. More boats can fit now than fit before.

On the other hand, my first exposure to Maine was like WTF is THIS :eek: Imagine a harbor where 100% of the available space is either lobster pots or moorings. Some of those places you are going to be a LONG way from town if you can't get one of the moorings.

 
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Elegua

Generalissimo
On the other hand, my first exposure to Maine was like WTF is THIS :eek: Imagine a harbor where 100% of the available space is either lobster pots or moorings. Some of those places you are going to be a LONG way from town if you can't get one of the moorings
I would politely suggest that you are going to the wrong places at the wrong time of year. I rarely take a mooring.  

The lobster pots on the other hand....

 
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