Bad Times in Mobile

[Steam Flyer]

this is a very sad tragedy for those involved. Condolences to all involved.

... ...

I nearly got caught out in a storm like that once. Knew it was coming but figured I had time. I did, but just barely. ... ... ... As I was headed in, many people were still headed out. I remember 3 guys in a 13 foot whaler passing me joking and drinking beer. When I got to the ramp there was a guy there hosing his boat off. The lightning was very close. I mentioned he might want to stop and he asked me if I thought the storm was going to hit. Within 5 minutes we were fully in the storms wrath. There were several fatalities that days as well. I was shocked at how disconnected people were to the situation building around them.

If the interviews I saw on several news sites were any indication it seemed there were people with very little experience out there on Saturday. Makes me sad. Sad for those that were lost, sad for those that lost someone, and sad for what effect it will have on the local and possibly national sailing community.

My sympathy to the families of those lost, this is really a tragedy.

It's an even bigger tragedy in that it could have been avoided. I dunno where you all have been sailing, but I've been in more fronts and squalls and really-sudden-bad-weather than I can remember. Sometimes it's not all that bad, sometimes, it's been a major trial. I am not very expert in weather but I seriously believe in paying close attention to what is going on around you. When there are warning signs, a skipper needs 1- see them and 2- to shift his priorities. It's not even SEEING, much of the time. It's the slight chill ahead of an oncoming t-storm, the tang of salt ahead of a vigorous thermal. But when you -do- see a squall line or an ominous cloud formation, to just keep on sailing like nothing can go wrong is plain stupid.

Most people stumble thru life with little or no clue what is going on around them, and most sailors nowadays seem to carry that behavior out onto the water. It isn't helped by the fact that so many modern boats are not designed or built handle properly in hard weather.

PJM a big big plus to you and your fellow sailors for the rescue. Seriously, thank you for being there!

FB- Doug

 

[F_L]

Away from the dock without a PFD on, un-fucking believable.

This is not going to have a happy ending.

This one is FO* REAL. Video from yesterday on the water. Gets ugly at about 2:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJF7i5z9lQ4

It took these guys 6 min before deciding it might be a good idea to get PFDs on? WTF???

Damn sad to see the loss of life. I don't think PFDs should be madatory, but I haven't left the dock without one on in MANY years. Just like a seat belt in the car, my PFD has become automatic for me. PFD's save lives. I invested in a good, comfortable inflatable with a harness. I hope like hell I never need it.

We lost a club member a few years back. Husband and wife were out sailing when a front came through. The husband went over in a knock down without a life jacket. The wife was unable to turn the boat around even with the engine running.She was repeatedly knocked down, mainsail broke every sail slug from tack to head. I can't imagine the horror she faced not being able to get back to her husband.

My condolences to everyone involved in the Mobile tragedy.

 

[Reht]

Severe weather has different meanings depending where you are. To some areas who rarely see much more than 20, a storm of 35 is of note. Meanwhile somewhere what regularly sees 30-35 and all the boats are set for that won't make much fuss for a sub-40 knot prediction. Never mind that fronts and conditions like were seen can sweep in surprisingly fast.

While I've never seen conditions to the extreme of what was documented here, I have had occasions where the weather got serious fast. Both times hot and light wind days, one was an evening race where the venue had minimal visibility to windward (shore with buildings in the way) and as soon as we saw ominous weather we started telling people to head in, only 1 made it in, everyone else had to ride it out (probably only gusting around 25-30, but it had been 5-7 and sunshine all day with no severe weather indications beforehand) in an enclosed shallow venue. The other time was mid-regatta, high performance event (bunch of skiffs and cats) where storm cells had been running along shore to our left and right all day, as the fleets rounded the windward the last time one swept down the course. In the words of the RO "I looked down to set the finish line, when I looked back upwind there were no boats upright". With the exception of one or two boats, everyone capsized that day, many broke equipment, at least one ended up involved with rocks and a cat went over and stuck it's mast in the mud and had to be left overnight.

The weather will mess you up when you least expect it, and when it hits not everyone is always prepared.

 

[RandyM81]

Condolences to the family and friends of the lost sailors.

The front page reporting is unfortunate in that it shows an image of a turtled catamaran when the tragic deaths were actually due to a monohull capsize and sinking. This seems to reinforce Ian Farrier's comments in one of the G4 threads that multihull incidents are often more widely reported than monohull sinkings because when a monohull sinks there are no images available. Farrier claims that this reinforces misconceptions that multihulls are not as safe as keelboats. In this tragedy the sailors that were lost apparently drowned when their small monohull capsized and sank beneath them. However, all of the multihull sailors survived despite capsizes and lost boats. I speculate this is because the multihull sailors were already dressed for exposure when they went out. There is no front page image of a sunken monohull for the obvious reason that no such image is available.

The image of a turtled catamaran followed by a tragic story of sailors drowned is powerful and hard to not make an association between the two even when the catamaran sailors were fortunately all recovered.

This is a small observation relative to the tragedy, but it struck me after reading Farrier's comments just a few days ago.

My heart goes out to all involved. I hope there are lessons learned that can prevent similar tragedies in the future.

 

[mad]

This one is FO* REAL. Video from yesterday on the water. Gets ugly at about 2:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJF7i5z9lQ4

It took these guys 6 min before deciding it might be a good idea to get PFDs on? WTF???

Got to admit, if I'd seen that coming towards me, even after one minute in I would have had people getting into PFDs and gear asap. If I'd had sails up, they would have been straight down and secured as well.

Seen it happen to many times to take the risk anymore. Its a harsh way for people to learn a lesson and just tragic that people were lost.

 

[AClass USA 230]

That video is scary. NOT because of the storm but the total lack of diligence. 1st scene- crew remarks it is going to be a bad one. No one has a PFD on. No lifesling on the rail. Some crew go below. Everyone should have had a PFD on, not the crappy ones they put on later in the video. The boat should have had a life sling and a heaving line at minimum.

Later in the video the storm hits and you see a 24-25 footer with main up in obvious distress. Not much they could do since they were not prepared. Hope the smaller boat is o'k.

It appears that is was an 18 mile race and then return trip to Fairhope. Mobile Bay is only 10 mile wide but I would guess that the 4-6 foot short wavelength steep waves brought on by a storm like this are impossible to navigate in a small boat like the dinghys and beach cats entered in the race.

I am sure some locals from the area will weigh in and correct any errors in my post. I have only sailed Mobile Bay twice.

Totally agree about how this crew managed their personal safety. They are lucky they were not knocked down. The PFD's they finally put on were a joke. I hope they will reflect on this.

I grew up on Mobile Bay and have done the race a number of times. The last two times were singlehanded on my A-Class. Makes me cringe to think about getting caught out in a monster like that one.

 

[powergroove]

+1 on the lady driving the piss out of it downwind, -1 on the OMG LJ's broke out too late, I take my own LJ on every boat I go on, don't hand me the orange one unless I lose mine.

There seemed to be conversation on the boat of steering into the wind "and riding it out" but the camera operator disagreed and they continued downwind. On that big boat I guess it is safer to go downwind but on a smaller vessel(Cat 22) wouldn't it better to face the storm?

 

[the_chick_on_the_boat]

However....I was impressed that the gal had both the confidence to continue driving and that no one felt the 'need' to take over for her.

Well done jpuffyman and crew, and fair winds to those lost.

Veeger, I realize you THINK this is a compliment, but perhaps you should go back to the cave and shave your knuckles and try to figure out why what you think is a compliment is really a dig at women sailors, and frankly, women in general. The rest of us would like to continue reading and learning from a relevant discussion of the events.

Ajax, if you get any good intel on PFDs with spray hoods, share the wealth. I've wanted to upgrade mine for a while and this tragedy is a strong and sad reminder to do as sailing starts to gear up.

It is a shame that it takes an event like this for people to take safety more seriously. I'll often hear comments like "oh, its just the Bay" when talking about sailing on the Chesapeake. We've had crazy weather come through that would challenge some of the best offshore sailors, and a few summers ago, we went through a spate of weather-related accidents (especially on the Magothy River) that resulted in loss of life. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that those events are what it took for me to invest in a proper PFD and tether. Shit comes up fast on the Bay -- we were on a night race a few summers back and a storm came up -- 3 knots to 28 knots with gusts into the 30s in about 3-5 minutes. After about 20 minutes, everything settled back down and the rest of the night was an absolute perfect 10-15 downwind run home. That's Chesapeake Bay sailing.

The relatively calm "normal" conditions of any sailing location should never be taken as an excuse not to be as prepared as possible (jack lines, proper pfds, throw lines, etc.)

TCOTB

 

[ryley]

TCOTB,

love my spinlock deckvest. It has a sprayhood, and I find it very comfortable to wear, even with the leg straps. Wore mine for the Greenport Ocean Race last year, 85 miles straight, and was never uncomfortable in the vest.

 

[vibroman]

Just found out that we lost a U20 (crew are safe) and the E33 mentioned above that pulled 3 from the bay was doublehanded!

 

[blackjenner]

I'll not indulge in any armchair "what if" quarterbacking regarding this incident and the films shared. It's a waste of time dealing in hypothetical arguments mixed with reality and people's opinions, informed or otherwise.

This serves as a reminder to me and reinforces our operational safety practices for Brigadoon.

1) PFDs worn when underway and above decks -- no exceptions.

2) Any crew going forward of the pilothouse when underway in anything but the calmest of conditions (15-20 knots is not calm conditions even if it is fun sailing) is tethered in to the center mounted jacklines.

3) PFDs worn when working over the side of the boat at anchor or the dock.

4) Lifesling always ready to deploy.

5) Heaving line always ready to deploy.

The plan is:

1) Stay on the boat. Stay on the damn boat. It's hard to drown while aboard.

2) Use the jacklines and tether. Yes they slow you down a bit but, in tough conditions maybe one needs to slow down and rush less.

3) Wear your PFD or stay below, sit in the pilot house and work navigation or make something to eat.

The arguments for an against PFDs always come up and they are too full of uninformed opinion, heresay and hypothetical guessing to be worth anything.

Whatever they are, make you own guidelines and follow them.

Survive your adventures.

 

[Ajax]

However....I was impressed that the gal had both the confidence to continue driving and that no one felt the 'need' to take over for her.

Well done jpuffyman and crew, and fair winds to those lost.

Veeger, I realize you THINK this is a compliment, but perhaps you should go back to the cave and shave your knuckles and try to figure out why what you think is a compliment is really a dig at women sailors, and frankly, women in general. The rest of us would like to continue reading and learning from a relevant discussion of the events.

Ajax, if you get any good intel on PFDs with spray hoods, share the wealth. I've wanted to upgrade mine for a while and this tragedy is a strong and sad reminder to do as sailing starts to gear up.

It is a shame that it takes an event like this for people to take safety more seriously. I'll often hear comments like "oh, its just the Bay" when talking about sailing on the Chesapeake. We've had crazy weather come through that would challenge some of the best offshore sailors, and a few summers ago, we went through a spate of weather-related accidents (especially on the Magothy River) that resulted in loss of life. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that those events are what it took for me to invest in a proper PFD and tether. Shit comes up fast on the Bay -- we were on a night race a few summers back and a storm came up -- 3 knots to 28 knots with gusts into the 30s in about 3-5 minutes. After about 20 minutes, everything settled back down and the rest of the night was an absolute perfect 10-15 downwind run home. That's Chesapeake Bay sailing.

The relatively calm "normal" conditions of any sailing location should never be taken as an excuse not to be as prepared as possible (jack lines, proper pfds, throw lines, etc.)

TCOTB

This: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|2290066|2290067&id=2698025

And this: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|2290066|2290067&id=2698050

Now get in the kitchen and get me a beer and a sammich. (kidding)

 

[Morgan Crewed]

To TCOTB;

The vest to get is KRU Sport Pro - been wearing mine for 4 years now and love it.

Google search "Revere Survival Kru" There are two models one with harness only and another with harness and spray hood. Both have a crotch strap and come in either black or blue.

For some reason this site does not allow me to cut/paste a URL link or photos.

 

[ropetrick]

+1 on Kru Sport.

My sincere condolences to family and friends in Mobile.

 

[Grande Mastere Dreade]

Stick-

You're referring to "offshore use" PFD's. Mobile Bay is a comparatively small, almost completely enclosed body of water, i.e.- "in-shore".

I doubt anyone who commonly sails there, carries offshore foulies and PFD's. It seems unfair to berate people who sail in a little bay, for not being "blue water" equipped.

I sail on a 1200 acre lake and wear a pfd... even yesterday when it was sunny out...

 

[RKoch]

+1 on the lady driving the piss out of it downwind, -1 on the OMG LJ's broke out too late, I take my own LJ on every boat I go on, don't hand me the orange one unless I lose mine.

There seemed to be conversation on the boat of steering into the wind "and riding it out" but the camera operator disagreed and they continued downwind. On that big boat I guess it is safer to go downwind but on a smaller vessel(Cat 22) wouldn't it better to face the storm?

Even a boat that size with IB isn't going to make headway into the wind in that wind and chop. No headway = no steerage. No chance of a Cat22 with an outboard doing so. Anchor not likely to hold, unless it's a really big one. Riding it out downwind the correct call, if there's enough searoom. Even a large dinghy (Scot, Lightning, etc) can go downwind under jib alone or bare poles in a short-lived storm, under control.

 

[Rasputin22]

Noon news in Mobile reports that one of the five missing has been located safe at home. Still four unaccounted for. More that 40 people rescued but not all participating in the regatta. Still searching but another nasty day and the CG is asking the boaters that were helping in the search yesterday to stay off of the water due to the present weather conditions.

The other big sporting event Saturday here on the Redneck Riviera was the Flora-Bama Mullet toss. Could have been all time record setting conditions for a long throw with that wind at your back!

Wait! They would have been throwing into the wind...

https://player.vimeo.com/video/21776986

 

[dacarls]

A truly nasty storm. Sadly there were casualties. In my experience racing cats (& monohulls) all over the South, the occasional racers in once-a-year races like the DI race are most problematic. My good bad example is the image of the turtled Hobie 16. Back in the day, we had huge Hobie Fleets for this new concept in sailboats, these speedy cats. Two weeks before ( my wife/crew 1976-1996 just reminded me) every ocean race, our Hobie Fleet 153 had a formal boat inspection with a formal "Inspector", for ALL sailors & ALL parts, including trapeze harnesses, good PFDs and mast seal check. Original aluminum mast s.s. pop rivets each had a sealed liner, so no water could get into a factory mast. It was sealed and your cat would not turtle. Replacement s.s. pop rivets put in by owners or shop employees who did NOT HAVE or use these liners, that mast is guaranteed to leak unless each rivet is sealed with a dab of silicone. .

A Hobie 16 or 18 or 20 footcat with a sealed mast can be easily righted by 2 crew, or maybe one if the wind is blowing.

But unsealed? This is a dangerous situation, as you have maybe a minute, then down she goes, and 2 people cannot right a turtled boat. Old cats on the beach, bought cheap, or a neighbor's cat borrowed for the day by kids....invariably have never been sealed, or nobody knows about, or never heard of sealing cat masts. Please look or ask when you see one. And I thank you, Hobie Alter, for a lifetime of safe catsailing and teaching through your Hobie Fleets.

 

[ProaSailor]

To TCOTB;

The vest to get is KRU Sport Pro - been wearing mine for 4 years now and love it.

Google search "Revere Survival Kru" There are two models one with harness only and another with harness and spray hood. Both have a crotch strap and come in either black or blue.

For some reason this site does not allow me to cut/paste a URL link or photos.

This site certainly DOES.allow you to copy/paste a URL link or photos:

http://www.reveresurvival.com/index.php/revere-products/pfds/british-pfd/kru-sport-pro-inflatable-pfd-auto-w-harness-navy

http://www.oceansafety.com/product-range/lifejackets/product/kru-sport-pro-iso

 

[powergroove]

Dave, I have ridden out a squall on my old G-Cat 5.0 purposely turtled, survival conditions. Not the best way to survive but sometimes the only way if you can "hunker down" in between the hulls.