Bad Times in Mobile

[Steam Flyer]

So for the audience here, what would you have done if you were the small sailboat with main up and several crew that the boat in the video passed ? Looking for a constructive response to what to do when you are caught unprepared (mainsail up) and need to ride out a major squall. e.g get sail down, point into the wind, how to keep the boat stable etc.

My own tendency is to assume that I'm the smartest guy in the room, or at least in the upper quartile. Instead of rescue, I prefer other boats leave me the fuck alone and not run me down trying to "help." What I saw in the video was a boat marginally under control themselves, they were not capable IMHO of helping the other boat with it's mainsail up.

I would most likely work at getting the mainsail down and reach back & forth under jib to keep under control / make it to a safer area.

What could have been done to help the other boat, the one heeled over with the totally flogging mainsail? If you could approach from their windward side and pass a line, it might have helped them to hold their bow into the wind to get the mainsail down. However the most likely result, in the absence of fairly serious training, is a collision and a line in the prop.

FB- Doug

 

[Kingstonsail]

So for the audience here, what would you have done if you were the small sailboat with main up and several crew that the boat in the video passed ? Looking for a constructive response to what to do when you are caught unprepared (mainsail up) and need to ride out a major squall. e.g get sail down, point into the wind, how to keep the boat stable etc.

BR: here is a link to a recent article on the subject

http://www.chesapeakeboating.net/Media/Feature-Stories/Weathering-a-Bay-Squall.aspx

 

[chaos!341]

I don't do the dauphin island race, only once was enough. I do not do it in my own boat or as guest crew because of the "booze cruz" makeup of the race...

even in good weather the start can be a nightmare.....

I was asked to do it this year again as crew but I had work I needed to do on my boat. I live in ocean springs, ms about 40 minutes west of mobile bay.

one of my crew was helping me replace a transducer so we had to empty out the cabin to chase wire. about 1300 it started looking like the gates of hell to the west.

we got done just in time to drag all the sails, etc back into the cabin. we sat down to have a beer and looked at our phones weather radar...holy shit!!!!

fifteen minutes later it started to rain hard...then the shit hit the fan...sideways rain and wind gusting so hard I thought one of my dock lines would snap...

the wind speed from the anemometer was busting to 60kt, and OS harbor is protected by tall bluffs and tall trees for 360 degrees...

then, I remembered the DI race was going on and I knew they were going to get it.

I called my foredeck guy that was supposed to sail it in a 5ktsb to worn him...he answered calmly and told me they decided to bail before leaving the dock...

man was I glad to hear that. then the news started coming in....

I also know Lee Creekmore and highly respect him as a boat designer and sailor...I had just done a 3 day regatta 2 weeks earlier which he pretty much cleaned house with Scoundrel....

I also met the crewman who died at the skippers meeting. I feel bad for Lee knowing he was trying to do everything he could to protect his crew and boat...

i'll add one more thing that I know from sailing many boat races on mobile bay...the bay makes it's own weather. when you throw in a major bad storm system on top of that, it just gets worse.

 

[shaggy]

So for the audience here, what would you have done if you were the small sailboat with main up and several crew that the boat in the video passed ? Looking for a constructive response to what to do when you are caught unprepared (mainsail up) and need to ride out a major squall. e.g get sail down, point into the wind, how to keep the boat stable etc.

So, I would attempt to reach back and forth doing chicken gybes as best as we could, but in 60 with the main up, that aint easy. the high mountain squalls that come through are much the same as discussed (they come from under the dam or over/through a mountain pass), so there is generally little or no time to prepare. If you are lucky, you get a 1-2 min warning from the boats further up the lake or from behind and you get the sails down and float. I have taken the main down once in the 15 yrs I have raced in CO, and we floated for about 2 mins bare headed in 0 kts , lashing the main and throwing genny/spin below then Bang.... There is a great story about the buccaneer nationals last year on Dillon that hits on this. Some great sailors were humbled that day......

 

[isailfaster]

I was on a Melges 24 (USA 9) for the Dauphin Island race this year. After the finish we decided to turn back for Fairhope under the kite. When we saw the white wall coming at us we already had the kite down and barely had time to get the main down and only one life jacket made it above deck. The boat was immediately tossed onto its side with a "bare pole", we spent the next 10 minutes with the mast in the mud and the crew of 5 in the water hanging onto the aft lifeline and the 25qt yeti. I truly believe that the mast being in the mud (10-14ft of water) is what saved the boat from sinking. due to the large waves and light hull the waves were rolling right under the boat. once the winds calmed down some the boat was able to right itself and we all climbed back on board. we immediately got more life jackets from down below and I grabbed my vhf radio with built in GPS and distress button. A few minutes later another gust came thru and flipped the boat the opposite way, and back into the water we go. another 10 minutes or so. finally the winds calmed and the boat came back up. We were able to drain enough water from the boat (honestly didn't know a Melges 24 would hold as much water as it did and not sink) and start sailing back towards dauphin island looking for people in the water. This was by far the worst storm I have been in.

 

[MisterMoon]

I was on a Melges 24 (USA 9) for the Dauphin Island race this year. After the finish we decided to turn back for Fairhope under the kite. When we saw the white wall coming at us we already had the kite down and barely had time to get the main down and only one life jacket made it above deck. The boat was immediately tossed onto its side with a "bare pole", we spent the next 10 minutes with the mast in the mud and the crew of 5 in the water hanging onto the aft lifeline and the 25qt yeti. I truly believe that the mast being in the mud (10-14ft of water) is what saved the boat from sinking. due to the large waves and light hull the waves were rolling right under the boat. once the winds calmed down some the boat was able to right itself and we all climbed back on board. we immediately got more life jackets from down below and I grabbed my vhf radio with built in GPS and distress button. A few minutes later another gust came thru and flipped the boat the opposite way, and back into the water we go. another 10 minutes or so. finally the winds calmed and the boat came back up. We were able to drain enough water from the boat (honestly didn't know a Melges 24 would hold as much water as it did and not sink) and start sailing back towards dauphin island looking for people in the water. This was by far the worst storm I have been in.

That sounds bad. Awful even.

Glad you guys came out no worse for the experience.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Can someone explain something?

I understand beach cats capsizing.

Things like the Melges are a bit :blink:

My standard idea of a keelboat is that *wind* could not possibly heel a boat over more than 90 degrees. At the mast-in-water point, there is no more exposed sail. How is this possible to roll like a 420 and stick the mast in the bottom? I have sailed my boat through a hurricane and cannot imagine accomplishing that feat other than maybe running in a line of huge surf. Waves big enough to roll my boat could not exist in shallow water except as huge surf.

Were the waves big enough in this storm to hit the bottom of the Melge and keep rolling her?

Glad I wasn't around for THAT ride

 

[MisterMoon]

My guess is the wind was blowing the boat to leeward at a pretty good clip once the keel aired out. The masthead in the water is driven down by the water pressure until it hits bottom in the shallow bay. This may not be as much of a problem with heavy boats, but it sure is in light ones. I think a Melges qualifies as light enough in any case. Lucky they didn't break the mast.

I've always been one to get the sails down if I see a bad storm blowing in on my small centerboarder. I'm now thinking if I get caught out in a hard chance like that and (if I have the time and based on other this and other accounts, its doubtful that I would) I'd pull my masts and lower them. I have zero confidence I'd be able to prevent a capsize in that situation.

 

[RKoch]

Boat was probably blowing sideways rapidly, and "tripped" over the submerged deck edge.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I was caught out in a Penguin once. Sailing home from a race the wind died, it was sunset, and I was 4 miles from home. The the sky lit up with lightning and I knew I was going to get nailed. I put the board full down, removed the rudder, lowered the sail, and sat in the stern wrapped in the sail. The windage aft and the board down (CLR forward) kep the boat straight into the wind. I survived the storm and then there was no wind at all and I had to row in the dark

The wide deck issue seems likely with the Melges. I guess I was lucky all those years ago when a similar storm hit us in a 25 foot boat. The boat was an Alberg-type design, both heavy and narrow. The wind could do nothing more than heel us over.

My guess is the wind was blowing the boat to leeward at a pretty good clip once the keel aired out. The masthead in the water is driven down by the water pressure until it hits bottom in the shallow bay. This may not be as much of a problem with heavy boats, but it sure is in light ones. I think a Melges qualifies as light enough in any case. Lucky they didn't break the mast.

I've always been one to get the sails down if I see a bad storm blowing in on my small centerboarder. I'm now thinking if I get caught out in a hard chance like that and (if I have the time and based on other this and other accounts, its doubtful that I would) I'd pull my masts and lower them. I have zero confidence I'd be able to prevent a capsize in that situation.

 

[TQA]

Any short steep breaking wave will do it.

https://youtu.be/fvPtYa-yWEg

 

[TQA]

OK this one is a plastic toy but the wave is not that big. Any short steep breaking sea demands serious respect.

https://youtu.be/xZXYUNamMTM

 

[jsprague]

TCOTB,

love my spinlock deckvest. It has a sprayhood, and I find it very comfortable to wear, even with the leg straps. Wore mine for the Greenport Ocean Race last year, 85 miles straight, and was never uncomfortable in the vest.

Suggested reading: The story of the UU tragedy....

Dash,

I read it thoroughly. As I'm sure you are aware, the spinlocks have gone through a rev since then, not to mention that there was some contention that they weren't fitted properly. I've tested mine in Boston Harbor and I did not experience any of the issues that were cited in the report. However, I do appreciate your concern

I haven't read the story of the UU tragedy, can you guys provide a link?

 

[DarthSailor]

Vibroman described it exactly how it rolled: "As far as I can tell there was no cloud formation visible that would warn people just an increasing darkening overcast. The cold wind off the tops approached at 65 knots! most boats were towards the SW part of the bay so by the time the squall line hit the water and became visible out of the gloom it was too late."

Max- The description matches overhead development of a severe thunderstorm but I submit that is to be expected given the forecast and the cold air mixing with relatively very warm Gulf waters over Mobile Bay. I am not saying novice sailors would have recognized these signs but the NWS watches and warnings provided at least a hint that the weather could turn SEVERE on Saturday afternoon. What is the solution to best ensure this does not happen again? I am not sure but it is worth discussion by this community to try and identify the warning signs in the hopes that the next time the conditions mirror Saturday's events, sailors will seek safe harbor sooner if possible.

[SIZE=medium]I was not on the water on Saturday, but was aware of the tornado watch that expired at noon. While T-storms are always a possibility here, this implied to me that the worst of the weather would be passed by then. The NWS is usually pretty good about that sort of thing down here, including tracking strong cells and streaming to the minute when they will hit the various towns across the bottom of the TV.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]We were in the Gulf Shores area (20-25 mi east of Dauphin Isl) that afternoon. We got caught outside (on land) when it first hit and ran for cover and then the car, drove in it for a bit, got out/in again (in the rain) and then drove awhile through the rest until it passed. While clearly not just a shower, we were surprised at the amount of damage that we saw along the way – trees and lots of limbs down, numerous billboards trashed, power / traffic lights out.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Again, maybe because I wasn’t following the weather, and I (probably) would have paid a little more attention to it if I was actually going out on the water, but the severity seen in the aftermath of this storm was somewhat surprising to me.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]A couple other items to reiterate (for you to interpret as you please):[/SIZE]

• [SIZE=medium]Many / all of the catamarans caught by the storm had finished the race and were on their way home.[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=medium]The Catalina 22 that sank and had three crew rescued from the water was because they were literally run over by another, larger boat and not because of their abilities or lack thereof.[/SIZE]
• [SIZE=medium]It has been reported, but I can’t confirm that it’s true, that only about 10-20% of the 50 or so plucked from the water were in the race, the rest were “civilians” out cruising.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This race and many others have been run in the Gulf, from FL to TX, for decades and nothing like this has happened before (that I’m aware of). My reading of all of this is that while perhaps not completely unpredicted / unpredictable, the storm event was a bit of an anomaly. Let’s hope it doesn’t happen again. Condolences to all affected.[/SIZE]

I did a GORC race back in the day, the 100 mile on out to a oil rig and back so more of an offshore deal. It went to shit and a friend didn't make it when his boat got hammered. He got washed overboard and they couldn't get back to him. I was on a IOR one ton and the waves were higher than we were long. 80 mph winds I was scared shitless the whole time. I was 17 and learned exactly what could happen if you were unlucky even if you had your shit together. Also the last time I ever thought someone was a wuss for heading back in when they decided the conditions were too much for them. I hate thinking about that race.

 

[DryArmour]

Third victim identified. Search continues for fourth body.

DAUPHIN ISLAND, Ala. (AP) - Authorities on Wednesday identified the third person killed when a powerful storm struck a sailboat race off the Alabama coast and said they will search one more day for three boaters who remained missing.

The body of William Glenn Massey, 67, of Daphne was found near a gas platform in Mobile Bay, the Coast Guard said. An angler spotted the body Tuesday and notified officials.

Massey, who lived in his sailboat in a marina on the eastern shore of Mobile Bay, was the third person confirmed dead since the boating disaster happened Saturday afternoon. His Facebook page featured of photo of him at the helm of a sailboat.

The other victims were Kris Beall, 27, of Pineville, Louisiana, and Robert Delaney, 72, of Madison, Mississippi.

Searchers have covered more than 6,500 square miles of water looking for possible survivors and victims, and volunteers walked shorelines looking for any signs of the missing.

Capt. Duke Walker, commander of the Coast Guard in Mobile, said the search would continue through sunset Thursday, but crews will go back to normal duties afterward.

Searchers have combed the surface of Mobile Bay, dove to sunken boats and flown 20 miles out in the Gulf of Mexico looking for signs of life, he said. "You're looking in a very large area for a very small target, so it makes it challenging," said Walker.

The families of two of the boaters who are still missing held a news conference Tuesday at Dauphin Island to thank emergency responders and others. They identified the missing as Adam Clark, 17, of Mobile and Jimmie Charles "J.C." Brown, 71.

Clark's mother, Angie Tew, choked up when discussing his plan to be a software engineer someday.

"Adam is an amazing kid who loves his brother and his sister so much," she said. Brown's stepdaughter Jennifer Hoffman thanked sailors who helped save people when the storm hit Saturday afternoon during the Dauphin Island Regatta.

In Louisiana, Amanda Allbritton Beall said a funeral will be held Friday for her husband, Kris, who was working hard to build his construction business.

"He had unending energy," she said. "I don't know where all his energy came from. He never stopped. I mean, he always made the most of every day. He was not a sitter. It drove him crazy just to sit."

 

[DryArmour]

I don't do the dauphin island race, only once was enough. I do not do it in my own boat or as guest crew because of the "booze cruz" makeup of the race...

even in good weather the start can be a nightmare.....

I was asked to do it this year again as crew but I had work I needed to do on my boat. I live in ocean springs, ms about 40 minutes west of mobile bay.

one of my crew was helping me replace a transducer so we had to empty out the cabin to chase wire. about 1300 it started looking like the gates of hell to the west.

we got done just in time to drag all the sails, etc back into the cabin. we sat down to have a beer and looked at our phones weather radar...holy shit!!!!

fifteen minutes later it started to rain hard...then the shit hit the fan...sideways rain and wind gusting so hard I thought one of my dock lines would snap...

the wind speed from the anemometer was busting to 60kt, and OS harbor is protected by tall bluffs and tall trees for 360 degrees...

then, I remembered the DI race was going on and I knew they were going to get it.

I called my foredeck guy that was supposed to sail it in a 5ktsb to worn him...he answered calmly and told me they decided to bail before leaving the dock...

man was I glad to hear that. then the news started coming in....

I also know Lee Creekmore and highly respect him as a boat designer and sailor...I had just done a 3 day regatta 2 weeks earlier which he pretty much cleaned house with Scoundrel....

I also met the crewman who died at the skippers meeting. I feel bad for Lee knowing he was trying to do everything he could to protect his crew and boat...

i'll add one more thing that I know from sailing many boat races on mobile bay...the bay makes it's own weather. when you throw in a major bad storm system on top of that, it just gets worse.

That is an outstanding write up. Thank you for taking the time to provide real world assessment filled with facts and local knowledge. Again, condolences to all who knew someone who was adversely affected by the events of Saturday on Mobile Bay.

 

[F_L]

Can someone explain something?

I understand beach cats capsizing.

Things like the Melges are a bit :blink:

My standard idea of a keelboat is that *wind* could not possibly heel a boat over more than 90 degrees. At the mast-in-water point, there is no more exposed sail. How is this possible to roll like a 420 and stick the mast in the bottom? I have sailed my boat through a hurricane and cannot imagine accomplishing that feat other than maybe running in a line of huge surf. Waves big enough to roll my boat could not exist in shallow water except as huge surf.

Were the waves big enough in this storm to hit the bottom of the Melge and keep rolling her?

Glad I wasn't around for THAT ride

I watched a J22 roll 360 degrees in Dallas many years ago. It was blowing like hell and we shouldn't have been out there. I think once the sails hit the water it provided resistance to the wind/waves on the hull and rolled the boat. Unfortunately the deck plate was left out of the fwd flotation tank and the boat sank. RC wisely decided to postpone for a while.

 

[AJ Oliver]

For lots of boats, lets say you don't have the lazarette hatches (or any other hatch-type thingys) secured and get a knock down.

It takes no time at all for tons of water to enter.

You sink like a stone.

 

[i550sailor]

So for the audience here, what would you have done if you were the small sailboat with main up and several crew that the boat in the video passed ? Looking for a constructive response to what to do when you are caught unprepared (mainsail up) and need to ride out a major squall. e.g get sail down, point into the wind, how to keep the boat stable etc.

So, I would attempt to reach back and forth doing chicken gybes as best as we could, but in 60 with the main up, that aint easy. the high mountain squalls that come through are much the same as discussed (they come from under the dam or over/through a mountain pass), so there is generally little or no time to prepare. If you are lucky, you get a 1-2 min warning from the boats further up the lake or from behind and you get the sails down and float. I have taken the main down once in the 15 yrs I have raced in CO, and we floated for about 2 mins bare headed in 0 kts , lashing the main and throwing genny/spin below then Bang.... There is a great story about the buccaneer nationals last year on Dillon that hits on this. Some great sailors were humbled that day......

Can someone explain something?

I understand beach cats capsizing.

Things like the Melges are a bit :blink:

My standard idea of a keelboat is that *wind* could not possibly heel a boat over more than 90 degrees. At the mast-in-water point, there is no more exposed sail. How is this possible to roll like a 420 and stick the mast in the bottom? I have sailed my boat through a hurricane and cannot imagine accomplishing that feat other than maybe running in a line of huge surf. Waves big enough to roll my boat could not exist in shallow water except as huge surf.

Were the waves big enough in this storm to hit the bottom of the Melge and keep rolling her?

Glad I wasn't around for THAT ride

We were caught in an 86 MPH storm (recorded by the weather station) that knocked our boat (U20) flat, faster then you could say starboard,,,,, with the sails in the water and the wind pushing the side of the hull, the boat fully turtled. I was the only one who managed to stay with the boat, and the wind continued to push the hull and I was able to get the now swamped U20 upright again, but due to all the water in the cabin, it turtled again. long story short I ran around the circumference of the hull 3 times before we got a tow and was able to bring the boat head to wind and keep it upright to be towed in. Like Shaggy said,,,,, humbling.

 

[U20guy2]

I was on a Melges 24 (USA 9) for the Dauphin Island race this year. After the finish we decided to turn back for Fairhope under the kite. When we saw the white wall coming at us we already had the kite down and barely had time to get the main down and only one life jacket made it above deck. The boat was immediately tossed onto its side with a "bare pole", we spent the next 10 minutes with the mast in the mud and the crew of 5 in the water hanging onto the aft lifeline and the 25qt yeti. I truly believe that the mast being in the mud (10-14ft of water) is what saved the boat from sinking. due to the large waves and light hull the waves were rolling right under the boat. once the winds calmed down some the boat was able to right itself and we all climbed back on board. we immediately got more life jackets from down below and I grabbed my vhf radio with built in GPS and distress button. A few minutes later another gust came thru and flipped the boat the opposite way, and back into the water we go. another 10 minutes or so. finally the winds calmed and the boat came back up. We were able to drain enough water from the boat (honestly didn't know a Melges 24 would hold as much water as it did and not sink) and start sailing back towards dauphin island looking for people in the water. This was by far the worst storm I have been in.

Glad you guys are ok.
To answer the question about how the modern sport boat gets rolled in these conditions. They have a wide flat bottom, when blown flat mast down, the wind drives them sideways due to the large exposed flat bottom, mast gets driven under and they go inverted. I figured this out after many yrs racing my U20 with our share of some good wipe outs. With the U20 you start to see the wind push and slide in the 40knot range, Experienced it once and thought we would get rolled as the mast was being driven down by the hull Catching the wind. No doubt you get into 50+knots you can get the U20 rolled from wind driving on the bottom of the boat parked on its side. I can see the Melges having similar behavior in higher winds. Our long time U20 class leader was rolled same type of situation during the Green Bay race same system that hit rolled and killed crew on the winged 38footer.

I'm glad that we didn't loose anymore folks than we did the conditions sounded really bad and there were many small craft out there.

Hold your loved ones tight, some familes sadly are not so lucky.