Banque Populaire dropping ClaCla

MR.CLEAN

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While Beucke is certainly attractive, she has also accomplished on her own what only an infinitesimally small group manage to do, and that is win a silver medal at the Olympics, along . Sure she may not have all her offshore chops yet, but my guess is that she’ll be plenty good by the end of the race. Way to support the cause by shitting on a fellow woman for being born good looking!
I had the fortune to meet and interview 'Sanna at a 49er Worlds I was commentating. She is athletic and a phenomenal sailor, she has a real champion-level intensity and work ethic that is rare and noteworthy in any sport. She's also got a great sense of humor, a compelling personality, and not a lot of patience for bullshit. If she wants to do well offshore, she will. Full package IMO.
 

eliboat

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Marie Tabarly speaks on behalf of others women. The point is to raise that the most competent womens don't get jobs, while clearly less competent ones get due to a purely surperficial reason... Yes, feninism is a very intricate cause.
Again, she’s the wrong messenger for that argument. Also, putting Olympic dinghy sailors on offshore boats as a means to increase the overall performance is nothing new. While I take your point, dismissing someone who has achieved far more in the sport on her own merits than MT has and chalking it up to instagram clicks and good looks is poor form.
 

symbio2

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Again, she’s the wrong messenger for that argument. Also, putting Olympic dinghy sailors on offshore boats as a means to increase the overall performance is nothing new. While I take your point, dismissing someone who has achieved far more in the sport on her own merits than MT has and chalking it up to instagram clicks and good looks is poor form.
Do we really sure that it was about Beukle ?
So far, Beukle abilities in offshore sailing is very limited at such level, her painful Figaro displayed it, to say the least. Above all, there is offshore sailing women better that her (it's mainly what MT say).

You "dream-up" the path of MT in sailing. I assume that until very recently, she did not intend some pro career in sailing.
Somehow not the best messenger, yet again it's not discussing her point.
Then, if only the "best" are allowed to speak-out... (among others, that doesn't mean that they will, far from that...)

"... up to instagram clicks and good looks is poor form"
It's not good or bad form. It's relate how it goes.
Btw : form/substance ? The matters goes through there.
 
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I had the fortune to meet and interview 'Sanna at a 49er Worlds I was commentating. She is athletic and a phenomenal sailor, she has a real champion-level intensity and work ethic that is rare and noteworthy in any sport. She's also got a great sense of humor, a compelling personality, and not a lot of patience for bullshit. If she wants to do well offshore, she will. Full package IMO.
According to Wikipedia she also won gold medal at the 49er FX European championships held at Geelong!

It neglected to mention how she did in the Australian Championships that year, presumably held at Kiel.
 
Do we really sure that it was about Beukle ?
So far, Beukle abilities in offshore sailing is very limited at such level, her painful Figaro displayed it, to say the least. Above all, there is offshore sailing women better that her (it's mainly what MT say).
Based on that logic, Grant Dalton would never have put Peter Burling at the helm of an AC boat.
If you are signing up kart drivers for your Formula 1 development team, you place a few bets and give them practice drives. All you have seen from Beukle thus far is that she jumped into a high performance offshore boat with zero offshore experience and finished the course in very tough conditions. She is fast (silver medal) and tough. She is worth a bet vs a tried and true underperformer. Ron Dennis threw his kart driver in the deep end and it worked out pretty good.
 

timotheysski

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Based on that logic, Grant Dalton would never have put Peter Burling at the helm of an AC boat.
If you are signing up kart drivers for your Formula 1 development team, you place a few bets and give them practice drives. All you have seen from Beukle thus far is that she jumped into a high performance offshore boat with zero offshore experience and finished the course in very tough conditions. She is fast (silver medal) and tough. She is worth a bet vs a tried and true underperformer. Ron Dennis threw his kart driver in the deep end and it worked out pretty good.
I think we all agree on this. The original point of MT which I kinda agree with, even if I'm not sure I would've publicly commented on it as such, is that for TOR, which is extremely performance-oriented and pushing the boat at all moments, there were women objectively more qualified for that role, which is true.
We are not saying she is useless on the boat or that she has weak potential. Simply that on short-term performance as is required in TOR, someone better from the Figaro circuit or even like Isabelle Joschke would've been a seemingly better fit.
Factually, though, she is on the boat, and I'd bet she's proving quite helpful on things like sail trim or helm (even if they helm with autopilot remote), even if she wouldn't necessarily be proficient in offshore nav/tac yet.
Besides that, I don't think anyone has an actual problem with her being on the boat; hate the game, not the player.
 

Fiji Bitter

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Fuck, who would not want to have a silver dinghy medalist on board, one who is willing to endure the hardship of a TOR???
Let alone a 49er FX sailor, really...

Bet she will go for a Vendée
 Globe, sooner or later...
 

eliboat

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I think we all agree on this. The original point of MT which I kinda agree with, even if I'm not sure I would've publicly commented on it as such, is that for TOR, which is extremely performance-oriented and pushing the boat at all moments, there were women objectively more qualified for that role, which is true.
We are not saying she is useless on the boat or that she has weak potential. Simply that on short-term performance as is required in TOR, someone better from the Figaro circuit or even like Isabelle Joschke would've been a seemingly better fit.
Factually, though, she is on the boat, and I'd bet she's proving quite helpful on things like sail trim or helm (even if they helm with autopilot remote), even if she wouldn't necessarily be proficient in offshore nav/tac yet.
Besides that, I don't think anyone has an actual problem with her being on the boat; hate the game, not the player.
You’re making the assumption that Isabelle Joske and others in the French IMOCA scene had any interest in taking part. The fact remains that most of the IMOCA fleet sat this one out because it’s foreign to them. I think that will change after this race, but that’s the current state of affairs.
 

wildbirdtoo

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You’re making the assumption that Isabelle Joske and others in the French IMOCA scene had any interest in taking part. The fact remains that most of the IMOCA fleet sat this one out because it’s foreign to them. I think that will change after this race, but that’s the current state of affairs.
I'm with you on this. Remember, Abby Ehler was on leg 1, not Susann. Abby has much TOR experience (but not IMOCA),, She did not want to do all the legs- I think she's coming back on the later legs. Listen to her interview on the Bar Karate podcast. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing its not been easy to find experienced female ocean sailors who wanted to be away for this whole time. I'm sure Kevin would have liked Abby to do more legs, but good on him for giving Susann this experience.
 

Fiji Bitter

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OMG, "Between the legs" with Abby, and she said it was pretty brutal.
Not sure that fits the sentiments of this thread, but I don't think they really care, they are tough cookies.
 
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despacio avenue

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I'm with you on this. Remember, Abby Ehler was on leg 1, not Susann. Abby has much TOR experience (but not IMOCA),, She did not want to do all the legs- I think she's coming back on the later legs. Listen to her interview on the Bar Karate podcast. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing its not been easy to find experienced female ocean sailors who wanted to be away for this whole time. I'm sure Kevin would have liked Abby to do more legs, but good on him for giving Susann this experience.
Kevin has emphatically and clearly stated that he is very happy with the performance and the personalities of the crew on this leg of TOR. Buekle has been shown working all over the boat, inside and out. She may not have Abby's offshore experience, but she has shown she is a hard worker and a companionable one as well. Not a lot of people of either sex would be willing to shit and piss publicly in a bucket, and not bathe, for 2 plus weeks.
 

wildbirdtoo

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Kevin has emphatically and clearly stated that he is very happy with the performance and the personalities of the crew on this leg of TOR. Buekle has been shown working all over the boat, inside and out. She may not have Abby's offshore experience, but she has shown she is a hard worker and a companionable one as well. Not a lot of people of either sex would be willing to shit and piss publicly in a bucket, and not bathe, for 2 plus weeks.
Oh I fully agree... it looks like she's doing a great job. My comment was not disparaging Susann, but rather agreeing with the earlier poster about finding women who wanted to do it. I think Kevin has a great team, and he seems a great leader & team builder. If Clarisse's comment was about Susann then I think it was misplaced.
 

despacio avenue

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OMG, "Between the legs" with Abby, and she said it was pretty brutal.
Not sure that fits the sentiments of this thread, but I don't think they really care, they are tough cookies.
This was a very entertaining, informative podcast. Probably more insightful and revealing about what it is like sailing on a crewed IMOCA, than anything TOR, or even the boats, have produced. Abby is intelligent, articulate, and has a great sense of humor. I laughed out loud, and will now have in my head, "Kevin's On Board Girlfriend." And of course, just listening to Nick Bice's voice is enough to brighten up my day.
 

Fiji Bitter

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Just finished listening, and it was an excellent one. Didn't realize there were in fact 3 girls on board.
And it sounds like Suzann will be on the next monster leg too. But trust me, after this leg she will be as good on the crewed Imoca as any other girl with lots of single handed experience.
 

shebeen

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Surely she is talking about Susann Beucke. Former Olympian with very little experience offshore (I reckon 2 years ago she had never spent a night offshore). She began training with the Solitaire du Figaro as her first major race.

Pretty funny that we don't even know which "instagrammer" female sailor she is referring to, so it only disproves the point.

but hey, thought I would take a gander at her IG and see if she was doing anything for female offshore sailing anyway



Based on that logic, Grant Dalton would never have put Peter Burling at the helm of an AC boat.
If you are signing up kart drivers for your Formula 1 development team, you place a few bets and give them practice drives. All you have seen from Beukle thus far is that she jumped into a high performance offshore boat with zero offshore experience and finished the course in very tough conditions. She is fast (silver medal) and tough. She is worth a bet vs a tried and true underperformer. Ron Dennis threw his kart driver in the deep end and it worked out pretty good.
exactly or who put Pete and Blair on a VOR team? Chris Nicholson tells a funny story about how he got onto VOR/elite offshore racing too with basically zero offshore experience. (that turned out ok).
 

r.finn

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If bp cared so much about the win they would have a bought a her a new boat. Automatic qualification, done.
Agreed. I think her role as skipper began and ended in bad faith. In an incredibly bumbling move they thought firing her on reproductive adjacent grounds would go over smoothly. They need to fire whoever that PR strategy came from.
 
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timotheysski

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Agreed. I think her role as skipper began and ended in bad faith. In an incredibly bumbling move they thought firing her on reproductive adjacent grounds would go over smoothly. They need to fire whoever that PR strategy came from.
I don't necessarily think that was possible. Sure, some designers would've been okay working on the project, but that boat needs to get built sometime before the VG. Currently, all the French yards are full, which is why so many IMOCAs are going to Persico and Black Pepper which are kind of working like overflow release valves for the whole system. You can only really build at Black Pepper if you get a Sam Manuard design though, leaving us with Persico. They just finished Eric Bellion's boat, have to do Jean le Cam's from the same moulds, and I'm pretty sure there's another boat lined up right after that also needs to be built. This last one is already tight for the VG so I'm not sure BP would've had the physical time needed to build a new boat unless they went for some unconventional yard.
Getting Apivia was a smart performance choice. The boat is mint, and we just have to look at the last VG to know what fully-optimized previous generation boats are capable of.
 


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