Banque Populaire dropping ClaCla

[Fiji Bitter]

Basically he is saying :
-The rules we set and defned
-CC has very little chance to qualify (if any)
-So if she isn't qualified in June 2024, that's the whole program budget thrown away for BP
-Also saying : Ok the qualif rules might be changed slightly for next time according to this case, but you don't change the rules once the event (and qualif period) is on going, and there is nothing "mysoginist in that".
-Also reminding that when BP chose CC, it was a lot because of her being a young female and promising sailor, but that on sports curiculum basis only, she was clearly not the best candidate, male or female
Edit : he also says at some point that he knows BP has had discussions with the VG organisation and CC, and that this decision does not come out of the blue

Quite honestly, Des is sounding more and more like an arrogant professor. Several of his comments in the last few years have been irritating me.
Maybe he never recovered from that devasting experience in the 1st leg of the 2014 Volvo Race,where he was beaten into DFL by... wait... The Girls.


Talking about body language!

More on that episode, and an amusing discussion about The Girls, here on SA:

VOR 2014-15 - Leg 1

Someone mentioned up-thread that AbuDhabi (sponsor) has to approve all content before it is released, this in addition to Volvo's approval = time consuming... FWIW - I don't think any of the other teams are any less focussed on winning, this is exactly the reason why they have the OBR - content...

forums.sailinganarchy.com

 

[eliboat]

Say CC had a breakdown or two in her qualifying races, BP would be fucked, and they may be even if the boat makes it through OK.

I hope CC finds a way to the start. Love watching her updates.

 

[wildbirdtoo]

Say CC had a breakdown or two in her qualifying races, BP would be fucked, and they may be even if the boat makes it through OK.

I hope CC finds a way to the start. Love watching her updates.

Exactly the same holds true (boat breakdown) for a new skipper for BP or indeed for any other boat. . that's no excuse. The qualifying miles is the issue for BP (or so they say- maybe there's something else going on, which might explain their late decision). And they have to replace her with someone with existing miles for their decision to be "credible" in terms of what they have said so far.

 

[yl75]

Tip and Shaft summary of the "affair" :

N°354 🚀 Clarisse Crémer débarquée, Banque Populaire dans la tourmente + Comment le défi Orient Express Team a vu le jour

English version :

N°204 🚀 How the french Orient Express Team challenge was started + Clarisse Crémer left on the dock, Banque Populaire in the eye of a storm

Didn't realize that Clarisse published her messages -before- the BP press release.

Btw they also provide the link to the "points table" for the VG2024 :

https://www.imoca.org/mediacenter/uploads/tableau_milles_vg_0112_fr4.pdf?version=5f196d1b

 

[Chasm]

Interesting pdf.

26 slots for normal boats, plus wildcard. Currently 25 skippers have the first part of the qualification in the bag.
Another 5 did at least one of the required races but are not listed as qualified.

Fabrice Amedeo needs a new boat.
Nicolas Lunven was the partner for Clarisse and is perhaps the substitute for Boris?
Denis Van Weynbergh Previously Class 40, ran out of money last VG.
Rodolphe Sepho ?, not listed on IMOCA site
Nicolas Rouger ?, not listed on IMOCA site

Perhaps no application yet? They have until October 2nd 2023.

Using round numbers ~9500 miles have been sailed. ~20000 are still up for grabs. ~15000 of those outside the ocean race.

 

[staysail]

No other sport event that I know of requires the participants to absent themselves from proximity to medical care by thousands of miles and for periods of weeks during a qualification period and a contest for a place on the start line, of several years prior to an event. That requirement fundamentally disadvantages women of prime childbearing age, the very women who are the most likely to be able to compete at high level, the most likely to win and most likely to beat men in the event. Men, that is, the very sex that not only cannot bear children but need women to do it for them!
Nothing could be more fundamentally unfair against women than applying this same qualification requirement equally to disqualify women and to favour men when the facts are that pregnancy takes 9 months and most people consider it prudent during this period to have medical care available.
Who writes the rules? Men.
In the big projects who has the final say on the skipper selection? A man?

 

[symbio2]

There will not be 40 boats on the start line...

It's what you think. Boldly.
So far for the miles race, Cremer is late. Facts.
The main issue is that she doesn't have anymore her destiny in her hands. Her qualif is dependent of what the others will do.
BP somehow can not keep their VG campaign in such situation. But do they have a better solution (even just before the disclosure of the eviction) ? Not really, IMO.
Then, how an huge, very structured, experienced, sailing team as BP (all the more, the most in france), doesn't have anticipated all that.
Plus, how BP doesn't have anticipated the shitshow and consequences of the eviction.
Pretty sure that BP didn't want to reveal the situation at that time, it's Cremer who did that.

After, has everything been related about this mess ? I assume no.

One interesting thing that I did not read overhere, it's that Cremer is planned (since weeks) for TOR leg(s?) on Biotherm.
So, does she that much late for the VG miles qualif ? Or Biotherm planned her strictly for only one short leg ? Then, BP knew but it seems that they did not take it in consideration ?

 

[symbio2]

Searching for dirt on Desjoyeaux...

"great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." E. Roosevelt

 

[Fiji Bitter]

Facts

Are you a Michel Des sock, Simplio, or just a fan?
Anyway, thanks for the down vote here, as well as in the TOR thread, it makes me feel more important!
Maybe you should try to make sense in your own posts, instead of all that gobbledygook.
Oh, and perhaps you like to know that I don't think much of Des's master either, the french hero Eric Taberly, who was not arrogant, but just ignorant, and never mind, introvert. Like(d) both of them though, but like a lot of other good french sailors, like Clarisse, a lot better.

"great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." E. Roosevelt

I see, but this a Sailing Anarchy, not Sailing Philosophy, my frog.

 

[yl75]

Are you a Michel Des sock, Simplio, or just a fan?
Anyway, thanks for the down vote here, as well as in the TOR thread, it makes me feel more important!
Maybe you should try to make sense in your own posts, instead of all that gobbledygook.
Oh, and perhaps you like to know that I don't think much of Des's master either, the french hero Eric Taberly, who was not arrogant, but just ignorant, and never mind, introvert. Like(d) both of them though, but like a lot of other good french sailors a lot better.

How was Tabarly "ignorant" ?

You should be careful, Eric's daughter is now raising her voice in favor of your Clarisse sweety :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/vendee-globe/marie-tabarly-le-clarisse-gate-n-est-que-la-partie-emergee-de-l-iceberg-4367167a-a47c-11ed-a609-bec206662bee

 

[symbio2]

Are you a Michel Des sock, Simplio, or just a fan?
Anyway, thanks for the down vote here, as well as in the TOR thread, it makes me feel more important!
Maybe you should try to make sense in your own posts, instead of all that gobbledygook.
Oh, and perhaps you like to know that I don't think much of Des's master either, the french hero Eric Taberly, who was not arrogant, but just ignorant, and never mind, introvert. Like(d) both of them though, but like a lot of other good french sailors, like Clarisse, a lot better.

I see, but this a Sailing Anarchy, not Sailing Philosophy, my frog.

Lay done this bottle and go take your pills.

 

[Fiji Bitter]

Eríc was ignorant because he put uranium in his keel, thinking he would get away with it, for instance.
And perhaps not wearing a tether when he was getting old, but saying that makes me rather sad, because he was a good man who did a lot of great things.

And Marie would be doing her father proud, if only he was still with us. She carries on his legacy very admirably.
Read half the article so far, and she sounds passionate about it, good on her!

And my Clarisse "sweety", indeed, I'm in love with her eyes, even though I still have a crush on Sam. Love all those wonderful woman sailors, and some of the men, like clac clac Le Cam too, to some extend...

 

[yl75]

Eríc was ignorant because he put uranium in his keel, thinking he would get away with it, for instance.
And

And ?

Plus he DID get away with it :

" Pen-Duick-VI " peut courir avec sa quille en uranium appauvri

Le Monde.fr - 1er site d’information sur l’actualité. Retrouvez ici une archive du 09 juin 1978 sur le sujet

www.lemonde.fr

 

[Mambo Kings]

I'm not doubting the talents of the women my wife included. She refused to work for French companies due to their rampant sexism and worked instead for a US Bank in Paris.

I worked for Lazard Freres, Paris in the days of Michel David-Weill. Man or woman, Michel was ruthlessly meritocratic... and I mean ruthless.

 

[Fiji Bitter]

And ?

Plus he DID get away with it :

" Pen-Duick-VI " peut courir avec sa quille en uranium appauvri

Le Monde.fr - 1er site d’information sur l’actualité. Retrouvez ici une archive du 09 juin 1978 sur le sujet

www.lemonde.fr

Sorry, a premature posting, while I was still at it.
And whatever Le Monde exactly writes, Pen Duick was allowed to sail in that Whitbread race, but "hors classe".

 

[Mambo Kings]

Please take this in the humorous vein in which it is intended.

The Banques Populaires have always been the banking equivalent of the J105 class....or something worse......
Lots of people. None of them any good.

(please insert whichever class you want to smack talk.....but the irony is that BP seems far more concerned about winning in sailing than they do in their business. This is not their first PR mistake, nor will it be their last)

 

[Vincent]

Nicolas is only 46.
His resume includes The Treasury, Deputy commissioner of the French Financial regulators, Advisor to the prime minister, and Chairman of the largest bank cooperative in Europe. These are all stepping stones. He has about as much interest in being a life time banker as I have in being a pro golfer.
He is not looking to have misogyny listed on the resume under personal interests.
Someone somewhere is going to get hauled on the carpet. The traditional french corporate pastime of finding the scape goat is doubtless in full swing.

Well predicted, some French newspaper are already reporting that he is now sorting this out in person.
However, in large french corporations, this usually doesn't end up with heads rolling : people responsible will probably get promoted to some position where their fuck-up potential will be a bit more limited.
In French, we don't say "Advisory member of board" but "placard doré" and I think it's beautiful .

 

[Mambo Kings]

Well predicted, some French newspaper are already reporting that he is now sorting this out in person.
However, in large french corporations, this usually doesn't end up with heads rolling : people responsible will probably get promoted to some position where their fuck-up potential will be a bit more limited.
In French, we don't say "Advisory member of board" but "placard doré" and I think it's beautiful .

Yes. Rest assured Nicolas will ensure he will get credit for intervening personally and that someone else will be attributed responsibility for the "incorrect" decision.

BP already tried to blame the VG organization for their "inflexibility" and got that door slammed in their noses by a brilliant response from the VG president...who in effect said that Clarisse would most likely qualify, and if she did not, she was the perfect candidate for a wild card.

So now BP need to blame someone else. The short list is three names!

 

[staysail]

Are you a Michel Des sock, Simplio, or just a fan?
Anyway, thanks for the down vote here, as well as in the TOR thread, it makes me feel more important!
Maybe you should try to make sense in your own posts, instead of all that gobbledygook.
Oh, and perhaps you like to know that I don't think much of Des's master either, the french hero Eric Taberly, who was not arrogant, but just ignorant, and never mind, introvert. Like(d) both of them though, but like a lot of other good french sailors, like Clarisse, a lot better.


I see, but this a Sailing Anarchy, not Sailing Philosophy, my frog.

He did the same to me! Very sensitive about body language. Expect I am about to feel even more important!

 

[troll99]

Not at all, Cremer is a spoiled brat basically, Sainte Geneviève, HEC, ok second in a mini transat, then straight to IMOCA, and now whining, who cares ?

yep, it is even ridiculous with all the drama. Dosjeyaux is a legend. Sport is a sport but it might be killed slowly if we care too much about what people think (by inserting our own political agenda).

BP wants to win and get 1st place. Who cares about 12th place? I was surprised that BP chose Clarisse after LeCleach. It looked funny.

For the record, Isabelle did very well in the last edition. I'm cheering on her.