Barcelona AC37

porthos

porthos

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Stingray~ said:
What do you make of his arguments about Trusteeship, profit-making and etc? 
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He's even more off-base on that. Yes, the AC trust is a charitable trust. But that's where the charity ends. Again, don't take my word for it -- you can read what the NY Court of Appeals said in Mercury Bay. Mercury Bay tried to argue that SDYC had fiduciary duties as a trustee (Dr. Ross's same argument) and the court disagreed. The court said that SDYC had an obligation to use its best efforts to defeat a challenger. So this isn't a typical trust, and it certainly is not a typical charitable trust. It's a competition, first and foremost, and the holder is entitled to work as hard as possible within the few bounds to retain the cup. That means the holder can make financial arrangements to make that possible.  

 
porthos

porthos

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Stingray~ said:
Again, my take on the AC33 Shitfight is that nobody in the end fought the Valencia argument on the grounds Ross argues in his piece. I do not expect it will get argued this time either.
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You are correct in that regard, but the court absolutely had to and did pick what the court believed was a Deed-compliant venue for the match. The court landed on Valencia because it was in the right hemisphere and because the parties had agreed to it. Which necessarily means that the court thought several things: (1) Valencia was able to be picked, which in turn means the court wasn't troubled by the fact that SNG's home waters were on a lake; and (2) mutual consent for venue matters. 

Both of those points bear directly on Dr. Ross's latest broadside.

 
Stingray~

Stingray~

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porthos said:
The court landed on Valencia because it was in the right hemisphere and because the parties had agreed to it.
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But it was in the wrong hemisphere, by the date in the end of it all. Bingo, at some point the parties had agreed to it, so it reverted to Khan's original ruling.

If in some bizarre scenario a Challenge from for example S+S has been filed under some YC burgee and as someone therefore having standing they then used Ross's argument to argue that RNZYS broke the rules, then.. ? Am guessing you think their Deed-Venue definition would fail?  

A stretch here, but the NYYC (who may have been getting advice from HR back then) did pivot to S+S for a time before Culver got booted out. It's at least possible that some beyond only HR believed the Deed was being violated, leading to their own (uninvited) Challenge getting filed for in case the RYS one got booted. The argument was supposedly about if Ineos represented RYS or some 'fake' YC entity instead but maybe there was more to the consideration, including since Dunphy called Culver to ask if he would be 'coming to NZ.'

There's f-all in AC news these days, may as well yak about this HR argument :)

 
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dg_sailingfan

dg_sailingfan

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Stingray & Mr Hamish Ross argueing like a bunch of 6-year old children.

No one has challenged the Selection of Barcelona as Venue for the 37th America's Cup in Court hence it is Barcelona for AC37! I am getting sick & tired of all this posturing by some clownish folks trying to drag the upcoming Event into the mud.

 
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sunseeker

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porthos said:
Couldn't find this piece, but did Dr. Ross explain how, if his interpretation of the Deed is correct, 2007 and 2010 happened? 

The best evidence of the what the drafter of the Deed intended are the words used. The Deed says the course, dates, rules, and "any and all other conditions of the match" can be set by mutual consent. No restrictions. 

It may not be what Dr. Ross likes, but there it is anyway.
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Dr Ross was just HAVING a good time blabbering on about his view of the Deed. 

 
S

sunseeker

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dg_sailingfan said:
Stingray & Mr Hamish Ross argueing like a bunch of 6-year old children.

No one has challenged the Selection of Barcelona as Venue for the 37th America's Cup in Court hence it is Barcelona for AC37! I am getting sick & tired of all this posturing by some clownish folks trying to drag the upcoming Event into the mud.
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Then you have two options, ignore, which most people do to you, or leave. 

 
Stingray~

Stingray~

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sunseeker said:
Dr Ross was just HAVING a good time blabbering on about his view of the Deed. 
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Lol!

Yes, HR's views can be a bit out there and that is maybe the best example but he was of course being paid to argue it, maybe even if just to drag the AC33 Shitfight out for long enough to allow CZ to get built.

How many legal teams did EB go through, about 5? They lost something like the first 13 of 14 decisions, the last one gave OR enough time to complete the Wing.

 
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Horn Rock

Horn Rock

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Dalts - "We should have won 7 nil."

Indicates that he thinks that Te Rehutai was quite a bit better than LR.

Dalts - Jeddah was a real bid.

We're going to get some big sponsorship bucks from Barca.

Shoey - The boats in AC37 are going to be a lot closer.

 
shebeen

shebeen

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Horn Rock said:
Dalts - "We should have won 7 nil."

Indicates that he thinks that Te Rehutai was quite a bit better than LR.

Dalts - Jeddah was a real bid.

We're going to get some big sponsorship bucks from Barca.

Shoey - The boats in AC37 are going to be a lot closer.
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Also found the bit from GD interesting 

a)no one in NZ knows what they're talking about

b)sat down with three unnamed super wealthy NZ guys who could fund it in a heartbeat and they all said the money isn't available privately in NZ

After listening to the second one, you realise either GD is playing the PR game or is part of the clueless masses he mentions first.

one thing he did confirm is that the TV is not a revenue generator, they won't try monetize it at risk of killing it.

 
Stingray~

Stingray~

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Stingray~ said:
Includes links to a two-part audio podcast between Shirley R and GD and others

America's Cup: Shirley Robertson talks with key venue decision makers and commentators (sail-world.com)
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There are several references to the sea state being unpredictable starting after July/August off Barcelona.

While the foil arms in V2 are longer (are the rudders going to go deeper too? TH mentions how you don't ever want those blades surfacing either..) the V2 boats may ride higher than last time but with them anticipating bigger swell then maybe we will also see different hull shapes this time for if/when they hit the surface at 50?

 
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Stingray~

Stingray~

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G

Gissie

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Stingray~ said:
There are several references to the sea state being unpredictable starting after July/August off Barcelona.

While the foil arms in V2 are longer (are the rudders going to go deeper too? TH mentions how you don't ever want those blades surfacing either..) the V2 boats may ride higher than last time but with them anticipating bigger swell then maybe we will also see different hull shapes this time for if/when they hit the surface at 50?
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Maybe they will amend the protocol to limit racing to days where waves are smaller than 6". :lol:

 
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