Bermuda 40 vs Swan 44?
- Thread starter Caliente
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Panoramix
Super Anarchist
I can't see how hyperinflation can happen considering the high level of debt everybody is in. Hiking interests rates to pre 2008 levels would lead to hyperdeflation!
Left Shift
Super Anarchist
The Fed is pretty closely watching for signs of inflation and has a huge ramp to raise interest rates. But as long as bankers and hedge fund managers remain greedy idiots there is always a risk of economic turmoil. And, frankly, I've rarely met a banker who was half as smart as he thought he was.
Caliente
Member
- Thread starter
- #205
The economy has been on life support since 2008, interest rates have been near zero since-this is the big gun to stimulate the economy. Now the only thing left is to print currency and forbearance of mortgage payments. We are nearing the end of a long financial cycle and there is no way out. Enjoy the decline!
Panoramix
Super Anarchist
Caliente
Member
- Thread starter
- #208
Things are moving along in a positive direction. This time Markel came back with a timely quote, in the $800 per year range covering the Great Lakes region. That's a lot better than $3000 for Annapolis and the east coast I was quoted for the B40 of identical price. Wow, it's giving me flashbacks as to how much more boat I am getting with the J/40 than the B40 
. I've been looking for a suitable dinghy, and I have settled on a 2016 Shellback built by a maritime instructor in Buffalo. It is in new condition.
The only problem seems to be arranging transport for the J/40. After looking at the length of the trip, a lot of it motoring including eight days on the Erie Canal I decided it might be a good idea to ship it by truck, however the boat industry is doing well and transport may be delayed until early June. Surveyors are also in high demand and my broker pulled some strings to get the survey moved up from mid May to next week.
Here is a Shellback dinghy looking identical to the one in Buffalo, they are good rowers, towers, and great sailing dinghies. Weight is about 100 pounds.
. I've been looking for a suitable dinghy, and I have settled on a 2016 Shellback built by a maritime instructor in Buffalo. It is in new condition. The only problem seems to be arranging transport for the J/40. After looking at the length of the trip, a lot of it motoring including eight days on the Erie Canal I decided it might be a good idea to ship it by truck, however the boat industry is doing well and transport may be delayed until early June. Surveyors are also in high demand and my broker pulled some strings to get the survey moved up from mid May to next week.
Here is a Shellback dinghy looking identical to the one in Buffalo, they are good rowers, towers, and great sailing dinghies. Weight is about 100 pounds.
The Shellback is a really nice dinghy. It is big (11'), which is why it rows and sails so well. It doesn't have the very high initial stability of a RIB, and won't be a 20-knot terror like my 9' aluminum ABI if you decide to put an outboard on it, but as you say it rows well, tows well, and can carry a fair amount of load.Things are moving along in a positive direction. This time Markel came back with a timely quote, in the $800 per year range covering the Great Lakes region. That's a lot better than $3000 for Annapolis and the east coast I was quoted for the B40 of identical price. Wow, it's giving me flashbacks as to how much more boat I am getting with the J/40 than the B40
The only problem seems to be arranging transport for the J/40. After looking at the length of the trip, a lot of it motoring including eight days on the Erie Canal I decided it might be a good idea to ship it by truck, however the boat industry is doing well and transport may be delayed until early June. Surveyors are also in high demand and my broker pulled some strings to get the survey moved up from mid May to next week.
Here is a Shellback dinghy looking identical to the one in Buffalo, they are good rowers, towers, and great sailing dinghies. Weight is about 100 pounds.
The smaller Nutshell has similar lines and beam, but is about 20" shorter and has a transom bow. Think of it sort of like a Shellback with the pointed bow cut off.
There are a lot of Shellbacks and Nutshells where we keep our boat in Maine.
A whole bunch of builders sell both boats, which were designed by Joel White.
PS: I would truck your boat. It saves a massive amount of time and wear and tear on everything, even though it is a pain to prep a boat properly for trucking.
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Cruisin Loser
Super Anarchist
The McCurdy & Rhodes designed SW-42 and SW-51 sail extremely well, especially the deep keel versions, and more especially the few competition versions. My SW-42 sailed like a dream. They are very different from the Tripp designs. The interiors are lovely, the cockpits are very friendly to women. Upwind in snot my wife would just tuck herself under the dodger to leeward and smile at the fact that she had married this idiot who actually enjoyed this. They have better natural lighting than most Swans I've been on. Importantly, my wife loved ours.
At the end of one season, on the last launch ride in, my wife was visible tearing up as we rode the launch in. I went out for one last grab, the pretty young lady driving the launch asked if everything was OK. I explained this was a regular occurrence, that she just loved the boat so much that it was very emotional going back to our regular lives.
I've always thought of the smaller Swans as "guy boats".
I would have happily sailed my SW-42 for the rest of my life had not a beautiful Brooklin Boatyard/Alden custom waved her enticing varnished transom and seduced me.
I have a Trinka 10 with the sailing rigs. It really rows, tows and sails beautifull, and is beautifully built. Neither cheap nor light.
Those are the Trinka's only flaws. They are actually built in the town where I live in FL.
The Trinka 10 has a nominal weight 35 lb more than the Shellback before you add options such as the teak floorboards. Shellback weights probably vary from builder to builder.
Two older folk (like me and my 90 lb wife) can carry an empty Shellback short distances. The Trinka is just enough heavier for that not to be practical for us.
They are lovely boats, however.
SVArcturus
Member
I know this was raised a while ago, but my experience with butyl tape doesn't seem to match yours. Maybe there are widely different types, and it looks like our experience is in very different temperature regimes (I'm in Florida, you Ohio), but while I like butyl tape for temporary sealing of things before "real" repair, my experience is that it loses elasticity and hardens up over a decade or two, then leaks if there is any movement. This is exacerbated by exposure to any sunlight.
I used to repair a fair number of 70s Hunters that had the aluminum toenails bedded with butyl tape. They leaked badly very soon, but I'm pretty sure that was because of stupid installation. Looked like the tape was stuck down, the toenail set on top, then holes drilled through the deck and bolts inserted. Lovely "washers" of fiberglass dust around each bolt, keeping the butyl tape from doing any good.
Caliente
Member
- Thread starter
- #213
Yes that would be improper installation. It is very important to pre-drill the holes, drill and fill, and chamfer the edge.
Good tutorial:
https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/
Caliente
Member
- Thread starter
- #214
Survey Wednesday! It will be squeezed into an afternoon as the surveyor added it on to a morning survey the same day, on the request of the broker to avoid a month delay in performing a survey.
Added to that, with trucking the boat 500 miles it is impractical financially to put it in the water for a sea-trial, so the motor will only be tested on a hose without being under load, not ideal at all. But the several thousands of dollars to commission and decommission the boat will go toward preparing for trucking. This of course is nerve-wracking but almost universally this is the approach taken according to multiple sources. I'd like to hear opinions on whether this is just a really bad idea to not splash the boat and check the various systems in the water especially the rig and engine. It has almost new instruments and the autopilot has recently been worked on.
Therefore, any suggestions on how to maximize the survey time and especially weak points to watch for on the J Boat and indeed any 30 year old boat would be welcome. Some items I have found on reviewing J Boats:
-the original Harken lower rudder bearing is prone to failure and the recommended replacement part is $2500
-the chain and wire steering mechanism is often neglected and the idler plate prior to 2004 is prone to galvanic corrosion and failure due to improper bedding and incompatible metals, after 2004 the plate and associated hardware is all aluminum. This can also lead to core rot in the deck aft of the traveler. About a $4500 repair.
-there are various other areas where the J/40 is prone to high moisture in the core. Especially around the genoa tracks and chain plates. In prior surveys there has been some question of moisture in various areas which ultimately was felt to not need immediate attention.
-the through-hull for the speed transducer if Raymarine has a plug and can freeze between the valves if not drained when winterized
-hoses under the pedestal, holding tank hoses difficult to replace. $1700 just for the four under the pedestal
-should the yard/owner provide the work orders from the years of ownership?
-the cabin sole is a total PITA to replace and this one has a little dark wood on the edges by the settees supposedly from water tanks weeping when heeled
Added to that, with trucking the boat 500 miles it is impractical financially to put it in the water for a sea-trial, so the motor will only be tested on a hose without being under load, not ideal at all. But the several thousands of dollars to commission and decommission the boat will go toward preparing for trucking. This of course is nerve-wracking but almost universally this is the approach taken according to multiple sources. I'd like to hear opinions on whether this is just a really bad idea to not splash the boat and check the various systems in the water especially the rig and engine. It has almost new instruments and the autopilot has recently been worked on.
Therefore, any suggestions on how to maximize the survey time and especially weak points to watch for on the J Boat and indeed any 30 year old boat would be welcome. Some items I have found on reviewing J Boats:
-the original Harken lower rudder bearing is prone to failure and the recommended replacement part is $2500
-the chain and wire steering mechanism is often neglected and the idler plate prior to 2004 is prone to galvanic corrosion and failure due to improper bedding and incompatible metals, after 2004 the plate and associated hardware is all aluminum. This can also lead to core rot in the deck aft of the traveler. About a $4500 repair.
-there are various other areas where the J/40 is prone to high moisture in the core. Especially around the genoa tracks and chain plates. In prior surveys there has been some question of moisture in various areas which ultimately was felt to not need immediate attention.
-the through-hull for the speed transducer if Raymarine has a plug and can freeze between the valves if not drained when winterized
-hoses under the pedestal, holding tank hoses difficult to replace. $1700 just for the four under the pedestal
-should the yard/owner provide the work orders from the years of ownership?
-the cabin sole is a total PITA to replace and this one has a little dark wood on the edges by the settees supposedly from water tanks weeping when heeled
kent_island_sailor
Super Anarchist
Unless the boat has about 150 feet of hose, how the hell are you spending that much money
Caliente
Member
- Thread starter
- #216
Saw it in the J/40 owners site. $1700 for four hoses under the pedestal, and that was with the pedestal out to repair the core under the pedestal. Seems crazy high to me also but that was the yard bill for that item.Unless the boat has about 150 feet of hose, how the hell are you spending that much money
kent_island_sailor
Super Anarchist
OK then, the cost of the actual piece of hose was trivial, but it took a lot of time to run them. Back when I did that kind of thing, it was like $200 worth of hoses and clamps and $1,000 labor. This is one reason I can go a decade or two between anyone working on my boat but me.
LionessRacing
Super Anarchist
Your former owner may or may not have the yard bills, after 20 years, I sure don't. The purpose of a survey is much like that of inspecting a house; to identify hidden reasons you should NOT buy it, and document that condition for insurance.
If you have doubts before survey, that's a hint you probably want to re-think.
If the survey (which is essentially an audit of the listing,) comes back with no unexpected problems, that's what you want. If it finds unstated problems, then you can discuss the adjustment of the contract. Either walk away, require proof of resolution or reduction of price sufficient to pay for your to have it done.
One of the questions once you have boat on a transport trailer, is do you want it delivered to the launch point, or do you want it taken to a place where it's likely cheaper to have work done, and then later move it to launch when that has been done. Back in the '00s when I lived in NH, I had Lioness stored over winter alongside my garage, so I could work on her. Cheaper than paying a yard to store, and dealing with issues of adjacent boats, inadequate power, tools left behind etc. I was considering having her refurbished in Baddeck NS, as their labor rates over the winter were ~$10/hr, and included inside storage, vs $60+ in Portsmouth. Would have meant returning to the Bras d'Or lakes and getting a ride home, but that's a lovely trip.
If you have doubts before survey, that's a hint you probably want to re-think.
If the survey (which is essentially an audit of the listing,) comes back with no unexpected problems, that's what you want. If it finds unstated problems, then you can discuss the adjustment of the contract. Either walk away, require proof of resolution or reduction of price sufficient to pay for your to have it done.
One of the questions once you have boat on a transport trailer, is do you want it delivered to the launch point, or do you want it taken to a place where it's likely cheaper to have work done, and then later move it to launch when that has been done. Back in the '00s when I lived in NH, I had Lioness stored over winter alongside my garage, so I could work on her. Cheaper than paying a yard to store, and dealing with issues of adjacent boats, inadequate power, tools left behind etc. I was considering having her refurbished in Baddeck NS, as their labor rates over the winter were ~$10/hr, and included inside storage, vs $60+ in Portsmouth. Would have meant returning to the Bras d'Or lakes and getting a ride home, but that's a lovely trip.
Tom Keffer
Member
You mentioned that you checked with the J/40 owner's group. You might also want to check with the J/4x mailing list. Many J/40 owners hang out there.
