Bieker rudder on a J/111?

[LI_sailor]

The J/111 planes ~17 knots going downwind

 

[pironiero]

huh, im struggling to understand what are the pros and cons of Jboat in comparacing with something like SF3300, can you please explain?

hull shapes are so different...

 

[Roleur]

Pardon me, pironiero, but would you mind starting a thread with your question?  You are asking possibly the most general question ever about J Boats, in perhaps the most specific thread ever.  This is a thread about one single thing.  The J/111 rudder.  

 

[pironiero]

Pardon me, pironiero, but would you mind starting a thread with your question?  You are asking possibly the most general question ever about J Boats, in perhaps the most specific thread ever.  This is a thread about one single thing.  The J/111 rudder.  

okay, sorry

 

[woodpecker]

The J/111 planes ~17 knots going downwind

At what windspeed?
 

 

[Roleur]

17 knots...

 

[woodpecker]

17 knots...

Funny, I look up the ratings certificate with the VPP's on it and does not show anything near 17 knots. 
Are you saying the certificates are wrong?
 

https://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/03410001D3C

https://j111class.org/images/documents/J111_ORC_Plot.pdf

 

[Roleur]

Okay, I'll play along here.  The VPP doesn't show any windspeeds near 17 knots?  I see 20 knots of WIND SPEED on the table you just linked.  

 

[woodpecker]

Okay, I'll play along here.  The VPP doesn't show any windspeeds near 17 knots?  I see 20 knots of WIND SPEED on the table you just linked.  

You are saying the boat goes 17Knts at 17kns of windspeed? Fastest I see at 16knts is 9.95

 

[Roleur]

No.  No one said the boat goes 17 knots in 17 knots of wind speed.  They said the boat planes at 17 knots of wind speed.  No reference to boat speeds has been mentioned.

 

[Roleur]

That said, plenty of J/111's have seen over 20 knots of boat speed.  Of course, that was done in over 20 knots of wind speed.

 

[MPH]

Assuming you ended up going with a Beiker rudder then?

 

[solosailor]

The J/111 certainly planes in wind above 20k and will hit high teens/low 20s peak boat speed when it's really howling.

 

[George Dewey]

The J/111 certainly planes in wind above 20k and will hit high teens/low 20s peak boat speed when it's really howling.

Still waiting for the right conditions to try this! It looked like that would be yesterday, but the RC cancelled the race last Thursday when the wind forecast hit 33 kts sustained and gusts about 40. 

 

[Boomerang]

only a little different 

Who designed the new rudder?  How well does it work?  Who built the new rudder?

 

[Roleur]

Paul Bieker designed the rudder.  Paul is the designer that helped fix the Team Oracle AC catamaran in SF to come from behind and win the AC.

Simon Miles at 206 Composites built the rudder.

Don't know how it works.  Installation has been delayed until May.  Recon has the same rudder and they seem happy with it, but they don't actually race very much.  They are super good and usually win, but that group races other boats a lot and the J/111 doesn't go out too often.  

Something interesting I just learned.  If you order a new J/111 rudder from CCI composites with the bigger rudder stock, you get a completely new rudder shape that is more like the Bieker rudder than the original J/111 rudder.  It has a narrower cord and more of a NACA foil shape.  

 

[Boomerang]

I just spoke with CCI.  They haven’t changed the rudder shape, just increased the stock from 80mm to 82.  They could provide me with a new design as long at it fits to the original engineering parameters.

I sail in Hawaii with bigger waves.  The original rudder could be more effective while sailing upwind for driving over the waves.

 

[Roleur]

That is very strange.  I saw photos this weekend of an original rudder from 2012/2013 and a new rudder from CCI that was installed 1 year ago on the same boat.  They were obviously not the same foil shape.  

FWIW - the Bieker rudder uses a 125mm lower bearing.  

 

[Boomerang]

Please let me know if you encounter any issues installing the larger lower bearing.  Also be interested to get your impression as to the handling with the new rudder.

 

[Roleur]

Simon Miles is doing all of the new bearing work.  As he is a professional boatbuilder and has already done one these rudder builds and installations, I don't expect any issues, but we shall see.  Yes, very interested in seeing how the new blade performs.