Black Jack, Nose Job Arse Lift

SCANAS

Super Anarchist
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Yes but it  seems the Wild Oats style bow will be part of BJ's mods so there must be an advantage other than structural?
The sprit obviously adds a wee bit of surface area to the bow might have a 0.0001% affect on pitching, the WOXI bow is much finer post nose job. 

 
Yes but it  seems the Wild Oats style bow will be part of BJ's mods so there must be an advantage other than structural?
I would hazard a guess that the advantage is completely structural regarding the sprit. Having extra structure in the part that has been controversial certainly adds a fair amount of support area where the sprit connects to the hull. 

I did find it interesting that it was interpreted the way it was though, regarding LOA.

 

terrafirma

Super Anarchist
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Looking forward to it. Bradford knows whats best for the boat and there's no doubt these boys put a good campaign together. They also have the advantage of knowing the Oats configuration and mods. Initially the same when Bob Oatley commissioned Oats, he simply said make me a faster one than Alfa Romeo. They won't be undertaking all this work simply to catch up to Oats, they wan't faster.!

 

Boink

Super Anarchist
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So what will become of the Tungsten bulb? The amount of skin grafting will be in similiar order of magnitude as WOXI - so it will be bulb forfeiture time.... Will they introduce their own version of lateral foils (read: DSS without licence) for speed gains. What about rig? Multiple spreader fixed tubes are getting long in the tooth for sail designers....... Is now the time for a full system re-boot?

 

DickDastardly

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Syderney
So what will become of the Tungsten bulb? The amount of skin grafting will be in similiar order of magnitude as WOXI - so it will be bulb forfeiture time.... Will they introduce their own version of lateral foils (read: DSS without licence) for speed gains. What about rig? Multiple spreader fixed tubes are getting long in the tooth for sail designers....... Is now the time for a full system re-boot?
I think I read somewhere that the tungsten bulb is gone already

 

Sugarscoop

Member
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Wouldn't be stupid for Comanche to retrofit some IMOCA style foils to keep ahead of the game. 

Is there rules against this?

If so surely not for long.

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
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Wouldn't be stupid for Comanche to retrofit some IMOCA style foils to keep ahead of the game. 

Is there rules against this?

If so surely not for long.
Maybe you should first look up what a 100' displaces v sailpower. You over 20 tonne out for starters.

 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
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Scan question you then have to ask is why weren't they adopted? It certainly wasn't money/budget.

 
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I believe the tungsten bulb is still there plus a longer fin.
I think the reason they kept a small rig and optimized for the light air is because they did keep the bulb, but had the keep the original fin as well, which didn't draw anywhere near as much as what Wild Oats currently has. The tungsten bulb was grandfathered in by IRC, but they weren't allowed to change the keel at all, or they'd lose the grandfather status. 

The call was made when the boat was acquired to optimize for the light end of the spectrum, as WOXI was currently going through her major reconstruction to make her more competitive uprange with Comanche. 

So they had a self imposed righting moment limitation, which they were hoping would be overcome by the reduced wetted surface (frontal cross section area, really) of the tungsten bulb. There apparently hasn't been enough light wind for this to matter when it counts (Hobart race). And Wild Oats with a taller rig and more sail area could easily overcome the "disadvantage" of carrying a standard bulb versus one containing tungsten.

 

DickDastardly

Super Anarchist
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Syderney
I think the reason they kept a small rig and optimized for the light air is because they did keep the bulb, but had the keep the original fin as well, which didn't draw anywhere near as much as what Wild Oats currently has. The tungsten bulb was grandfathered in by IRC, but they weren't allowed to change the keel at all, or they'd lose the grandfather status. 

The call was made when the boat was acquired to optimize for the light end of the spectrum, as WOXI was currently going through her major reconstruction to make her more competitive uprange with Comanche. 

So they had a self imposed righting moment limitation, which they were hoping would be overcome by the reduced wetted surface (frontal cross section area, really) of the tungsten bulb. There apparently hasn't been enough light wind for this to matter when it counts (Hobart race). And Wild Oats with a taller rig and more sail area could easily overcome the "disadvantage" of carrying a standard bulb versus one containing tungsten.
The latest ORCi certificate still carries a note that the Tungsten bulb is still there - but it's possible it simply hasn't been updated as there's also a note on there about dock heel angle that's out of date.  Dunno.

 
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The latest ORCi certificate still carries a note that the Tungsten bulb is still three - but it's possible it wasn't updated as there's also a note about dock heel angle that's out of date.  Dunno.
Right, I was saying that I don't think the keel was able to be changed as they would have lost the grandfather status of the tungsten bulb.  They made the call to optimize around light weight and less wetted surface, while knowing that the other similar boat (WOXI) had much more righting moment capability.. purely due to her deeper keel fin, as WOXI is a bit narrower than BJ100.

 

Boink

Super Anarchist
1,589
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Commanche didnt launch with Dali-esque foils because of her age.

Launched Sept 2014 - a year before Hugo Boss - and many, many generations of foil development ago. Look at how foil lengths have lengthened whilst reducing in Chord. The material science alone is what has released these new shapes

So whilst she has Verdier and VPLP DNA within her; just a little too early for what is being seen now as on say Sam Davies Initiatives Coeurs. The loads that these 2 boats generate, would be of a magnitude of difference.

Bet that some questions have been asked or proposed as to what you could do with her though. Maybe the Supermaxi owners have a cartel that has pencilled in one boat per year to carry out some plastic surgery to their mistresses  ;) - its Peter Harburgs year currently........ Would certainly help stimulate some interest in the S2H outside of douchebaggery.

 


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