Bloomberg'$ $peech

[jocal505]

I originally was going to respond en masse to all your stuff at once, but thought I might have a better chance of you actually addressing my points if I break it up into easier to digest posts. I'm not holding my breath......

You seriously call ME the problem when I am the model gunowner you should be holding up as an example of what to do right. I am avid about safety, about responsibility, about logical and sane discourse, about compromise on some gun legislation, etc. And you STILL want to label ME as the problem??? Well, go fuck yourself. My gun ownership and my views DO NOT have any bearing or impact on the urban youth you pick up a gun everyday and shoot their rival drug dealer.

Jeff, you may be neither "the model gunowner", nor the "reasonable" person you think you are.

Just as one example, you support the open sale of fifty caliber battle weapons.

Yeah, so? How many .50 cal rifles have been used in the commission of a crime in the US? Why do you have such a hard-on for .50 Barrett rifles? I've asked you this question MANY times and not once have you answered me. I don't really expect this time to be any different. Are they just too scary looking for you?

"Model gunowner"? Baloney. Obviously, there are too many kooks out there, yet you want AW's and .50 cals circulating to empower their lethal whims.

We had a misfit shoot up a college not far from the Ballard locks yesterday, Jeff. He was subdued by pepper spray, while reloading a shotgun, after about five shots. One fatality, two in intensive care. His low-capacity ammo feeder made a significant difference.

Here's a look at our local gun mess, for which you are crusading to make worse, bud:

Previous mass shootings in Washington state

June 5, 2014 at 6:06 PM

Previous mass shootings in Washington state:

May 30, 2012: Ian Stawicki, 40, shot five people at Cafe Racer in Northeast Seattle, killing four and wounding one, and then drove downtown and killed a woman near Town Hall. He fatally shot himself on a West Seattle sidewalk

Nov. 29, 2009: Four Lakewood police officers were gunned down in a coffee shop south of Tacoma by Maurice Clemmons, who is later shot and killed by a Seattle police officer.

April 4, 2009: James Harrison fatally shot all five of his kids, ages 7 through 16, in Graham and then drove to Auburn and killed himself.

Sept. 2, 2008: Six people were shot and killed by Isaac Zamora, 29, and four others were injured in a rampage that started in Alger, Skagit County, and continued down Interstate 5 during a high-speed chase that ended when he gave up in Mount Vernon.

Dec. 24, 2007: Six members of the same family were fatally shot in a Carnation home. Michele Anderson and her former boyfriend, Joseph McEnroe, are each charged with six counts of aggravated murder in the fatal shootings of her parents, her brother and his wife, and the couple’s two children. Anderson and McEnroe may face the death penalty.

July 26, 2006: Naveed Haq attacked the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle, making anti-Semitic statements before killing one woman and wounding five. He was sentenced to life in prison.

March 25, 2006: Kyle Huff, 28, shot and killed six people and wounded two others in a house in Seattle’s Capitol Hill neighborhood before fatally shooting himself.

Nov. 20, 2005: Dominick Maldonado wounded seven in a Tacoma Mall shooting rampage. He was sentenced to more than 163 years in prison.

July 5, 1998: Five young men walked into the Trang Dai restaurant in Tacoma and fired nearly 60 bullets, killing five people and injuring five more in what were described as gang-related killings. Of the nine men charged in the case, two committed suicide, another was killed before trial, four pleaded guilty and two were convicted at trial.

Feb. 2, 1996: At Frontier Middle School in Moses Lake, two students and one teacher were killed and another student was wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class. He is serving a life sentence.

June 20, 1994: Airman Dean Mellberg, who had been discharged from the military for mental-health reasons, opened fire with a semiautomatic assault rifle at Spokane’s Fairchild Air Force Base hospital. Four people were killed and 22 were injured before Mellberg was shot and killed by a base security officer.

Feb. 19, 1983: 13 people were slain during a robbery at the Wah Mee gambling parlor in Seattle’s Chinatown International District. Two men, Kwan Fai “Willie” Mak and Benjamin Ng, are serving life sentences for the Wah Mee killings. A third man, Tony Ng (no relation to Benjamin), was paroled this year and deported to Hong Kong.

Pasted from <http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/06/previous-mass-shootings-in-washington-state/>

 

[jocal505]

I guess I need to remind you that the guns in U.S. houses, used between persons who know each other, do more damage than black drug dealers.

Then I will apparently need to remind you that you are full of shit...

>Gun-related homicide is most prevalent among gangs and during the commission of felony crimes. In 1980, the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during arguments was about the same as from gang involvement (about 70 percent), but by 1993, nearly all gang-related homicides involved guns (95 percent), whereas the percentage of gun homicides related to arguments remained relatively constant. The percentage of gang-related homicides caused by guns fell slightly to 92 percent in 2008, but the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during the commission of a felony rose from about 60 percent to about 74 percent from 1980 to 2005.[5]

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/Pages/welcome.aspx#note5

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!! You are entitled to your own opinions. But not your own facts.

Your quote does not indicate what you say it does. And the 95% vs 70% contrast is 20 years old, at the 1993 peak of crime.

I'll look for a good link, but among econometrics professorss, it's a basic that our U.S. guns stats are out-of-whack not with crime, as the NRA would tell it, but with interpersonal mishaps among familiar parties.

This includes the black community. Since we're discussing gun violence among blacks, figure this in:

MOST COMMON WEAPONS

For homicides in which the weapon used could be identified, 82 percent of black victims (4,949 out of 6,022) were shot
and killed with guns. Of these, 77 percent (3,824 victims) were killed with handguns. There were 644 victims killed
with knives or other cutting instruments, 221 victims killed by bodily force, and 130 victims killed by a blunt object. In
comparison, 63 percent of white victims and 73 percent of victims of all races were killed with guns.

VICTIM/OFFENDER RELATIONSHIP
For homicides in which the victim to offender relationship could be identified, 73 percent of black victims (2,138 out of
2,928) were murdered by someone they knew. Seven hundred ninety victims were killed by strangers.

CIRCUMSTANCE
For homicides in which the circumstances could be identified, 70 percent (2,540 out of 3,652) were not related to the
commission of any other felony. Of these, 58 percent (1,475 homicides) involved arguments between the victim and
the offender.

Eleven percent (282 homicides) were reported to be gang-related. Forty-one percent of gang-related homicides (115
homicides) were in California, which may be in part due to more comprehensive reporting. In California, 51 percent of
non-felony related homicides were reported to be gang-related.
http://www.vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide14.pdf

 

[jocal505]

That's a whole whopping 57 'mass' murders in 31 years, in a state with fairly relaxed gun laws.. Or basically about the same as any two given weekends in Chicago, a city with some of the strictest gun laws in America. Thanx again, idiot, for another klassic JokeAwf Fail. You never cease to amaze us with your stupidity......

Shirley you are not trying to say a dozen mass shootings in Seattle is AOK.

It's too many killings Rick. Even for you, my friend.

 

[jocal505]

That's a whole whopping 57 'mass' murders in 31 years, in a state with fairly relaxed gun laws.. Or basically about the same as any two given weekends in Chicago, a city with some of the strictest gun laws in America. Thanx again, idiot, for another klassic JokeAwf Fail. You never cease to amaze us with your stupidity......

It's too many killings Rick. Even for you, my friend.

No its not, fuk-apple. Of all the ways to die in Washington state, being mass murdered is right tgere at thebbottom of the list. After fugu poisoning, being struck by a golf ball or getting smashed by a falling piano. Fifty seven ' mass murder' victims in 31 years is amost zero, percentage wise up there. And you know it.....

What I know here is that you are a very de-sensitized individual who loves guns.

There may be a connection between the two.

 

[Regatta Dog]

Bloomberg is going to spend more in a year than the NRA spends in a decade.

Money in politics is bad....sometimes.

 

[Sean]

Bloomberg is going to spend more in a year than the NRA spends in a decade.

Money in politics is bad....sometimes.

It's not politics.

 

[Regatta Dog]

Bloomberg is going to spend more in a year than the NRA spends in a decade.

Money in politics is bad....sometimes.

It's not politics.

Really? What is it then?

 

[jocal505]

It's public safety, RD. Just trying to negotiate around shit like this:

A 7-year-old girl and a 22-year-old man were wounded in a drive-by shooting in Cleveland, Ohio, Monday night. Police said the victims were at a gas station when Xavier Collins, 22, got into an argument with another man. Collins and the girl, who is his girlfriend’s daughter, drove away from the gas station, but the suspect followed him and opened fire. Also that night, a 26-year-old man was shot and killed during an argument with a roommate. The suspect, 28-year-old Joshua Carter, was arrested. All three lived together.

—Fox 8, News Net 5

Five people were shot, one fatally, in the Sweet Auburn neighborhood of Atlanta, Ga., early Tuesday. The shooting stemmed from an argument over gambling. The dead man was identified as Selemon Belai, 27.

—myfoxatlanta.com

A 13-year-old boy was accidentally shot in the head outside a mobile home in Bluffton, Ind., Tuesday morning. Police said the victim was with a group of minors, one of whom had a gun that accidentally discharged.

—INC Now, WISH TV

Shaquez Brunner, 13, was shot and killed while playing with a gun in southwest Columbus, Ohio, Tuesday afternoon, and his 16-year-old friend was arrested. Police said Jakairion Spikes, 16, and some friends were inside his apartment when the shooting occurred. “I just hate that this happened to his family and I send my prayers to his family,” Spikes’s mother said. The boys were reportedly best friends.

—WBNS-10TV

A 15-year-old boy who was shot in downtown Lodi, Calif., Saturday night died of his injuries Monday. His family has agreed to donate his organs.

—Lodi News-Sentinel

Laquan Nelson, 16, was shot in the torso and killed while walking the grounds of a public housing complex in the Clinton Hill section ofBrooklyn, N.Y., Monday evening. Police have not identified any suspects.

—NY1

A 17-year-old girl was shot in the shoulder outside Arsenal Tech High School in Indianapolis Tuesday afternoon, and police arrested her ex-boyfriend, 19-year-old William Alvies. Police said the two were arguing in a school parking lot across the street from the campus, and the victim started screaming and ran back to school. Alvies allegedly chased her and opened fire from the middle of the street. According to court documents, Alvies had physically assaulted the girl before. That night in a separate incident, a man was shot on the city’s northeast side.

—Indy Star, RTV 6

A man was killed in a drive-by shooting in front of a home on the west side of Detroit early Tuesday. That night, two men and a woman were wounded in a drive-by shooting on the west side ofDetroit.

—Detroit Free Press, WXYZ

A 34-year-old woman and a 41-year-old man were found shot to death in a motel room in northwest Houston, Tex., Tuesday afternoon. Police believe the man shot the woman in the head and then shot himself.

—Chron

Edroy James Ballard, Jr., 29, was found shot to death in front of a home in Horn Lake, Miss., Tuesday afternoon. Neighbors said the shooter was working on a parked car when he started arguing with the victim. The suspect fled before police arrived. “Receive my son, father, into your kingdom,” the victim’s mother shouted as her son’s body was taken away.

—WREG

James Anthony Chancellor, 30, was found shot in an alley inDayton, Ohio, Tuesday night and later died at a hospital. After he was shot, the victim called his girlfriend and asked her to send for police. Police have not released any suspect information.

—WHIO

Bobby Ervin, 20, was shot to death during an argument with three others outside a south Dallas, Tex., convenience store Monday night. The victim ran from the scene before collapsing. Detectives are following up on several leads.

—The Dallas Morning News

A man shot himself near a Toyota plant in Georgetown, Ky., Monday night. The victim was an employee at the plant. He told police that he was approached by someone with a gun while coming back from his lunch break, but after police questioning he admitted the wound was self-inflicted.

—WKYT

A man was shot in the leg during a fight with more than a dozen people near the Beauty Bar in the Mission District of San Francisco early Tuesday. Police do not think the melee was gang-related. No one has been arrested.

—Mission Local

A 50-year-old man is clinging to life after he was shot in the chest in the parking lot of the Lone Star Market in Corpus Christi, Tex., Tuesday evening. Police have detained a 53-year-old man. Authorities have not revealed whether the incident was gang-related.

—KIII TV

Catina Cortes, 25, was found shot to death at a Ramada hotel inLanham, Md., Tuesday afternoon. Detectives are interviewing staff and guests.

—CBS DC

George Moore, 37, was shot and killed at a home in Edgewood, Md., Monday evening. Tanasha Siena, 35, called 911 and told dispatchers she shot her boyfriend. She said Moore assaulted her before the shooting. She was charged with murder.

—CBS Baltimore

Sean Zoccoillo, 23, was shot in the stomach while fleeing a drug deal gone bad in Syracuse, N.Y., Tuesday night. The victim and 23-year-old William Abt were in a car in a parking lot, where they were trying to buy drugs. The dealer and another man tried to rob the pair, and as Abt sped away, one of the men fired a round. Anyone with information about the shooting is asked to contact police.

—Syracuse.com

A man was shot and critically injured during an attempted robbery in Richmond, Calif., Tuesday afternoon. The suspected shooter approached the victim in the garage of a home, and after they exchanged words, gunfire ensued. Police are looking for a man in his 20s or 30s.

—Contra Costa Times

A 22-year-old man was found shot in the foot outside an apartment complex in Kalamazoo, Mich., early Tuesday. Authorities do not have information about a suspect.

—WOOD TV

A man was shot in the stomach during an argument in Mobile, Ala., early Tuesday. The suspect, Michael Antonio Russell, 44, was later located at a motel.

—AL.com

Kenneth Soles, 47, was shot twice during an argument inTrotwood, Ohio, Tuesday night. Police believe the victim and the suspect, D’Aaron Williams, 24, were arguing over Williams’s loose dog. Williams was located at his probation officer’s office.

—WHIO

A man was found shot to death in an alley in Kansas City, Mo., early Tuesday. In separate incidents that afternoon, a man in his late teens was shot by someone in a passing car and another person was shot and wounded less than an hour later.

—KCTV 5, The Kansas City Star

Daniel Alaniz, 33, was killed in a gang-related shooting in the Pacoima area of Los Angeles Monday night. Two men are being sought.

—Los Angeles Daily News

A 21-year-old man suffering from a gunshot wound to his upper body was dropped off at a hospital on the northeast side ofRochester, N.Y., late Monday.

—WHEC

A man was dropped off at a hospital with a gunshot wound to the chest in Crestview, Fla., Tuesday afternoon. Police said the shooting may have been drug-related.

—nfwdailynews.com

A man was shot in the head at a west Tulsa, Okla., apartment complex early Tuesday. The victim was discovered lying on a patio. Police do not have a description of the shooter.

—NewsOn6.com

Anthony Hunt was shot multiple times while riding in a car driven by his mother in west Toledo, Ohio, Tuesday afternoon. The victim told police he saw a small black vehicle speeding from the scene.

—NBC 24

A 32-year-old man was shot several times and killed while driving away from an argument involving a group of people in east San Antonio, Tex., late Monday. Police said the bullet entered the victim’s shoulder and exited through his chest. By the time police arrived, everyone involved in the argument was gone.

—KSAT

A 19-year-old man was shot and killed in north Stockton, Calif., Tuesday afternoon. Emergency responders found the victim lying in the street. Distraught citizens gathered near the crime scene.

—Recordnet.com

A man in his 30s or 40s was shot to death behind an apartment complex in the Old Louisville neighborhood of Louisville, Ky., Tuesday night. There are no suspects.

—WLKY

Two people were wounded in a shooting at an intersection inTallahassee, Fla., Tuesday night. Police are interviewing witnesses.

—WCTV

Eddie George, 59, was shot four times while trying to evade a robber outside a convenience store in Shreveport, La., Tuesday afternoon. The would-be robber chased the victim around his truck, and got fed up and opened fire. “I hope the old man is all right,” said a man who witnessed the shooting. “It was a bloody mess.”

—Shreveport Times

A man was shot while walking past a home in Watsonville, Calif., Tuesday morning. Police believe the shooting is gang-motivated. Schools near the scene were temporarily locked down.

—KION 46

A 22-year-old man was critically wounded during a shooting inAntioch, Calif., Tuesday afternoon. A man with a handgun was arrested near the scene.

—KTVU

A 20-year-old man was shot in the stomach at an apartment complex in Kingston, N.Y., early Tuesday. Stray bullets pierced an apartment wall nearby. Detectives recovered a 9mm rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and a substantial amount of ammunition at the scene. Eric S. Harris, 24, was arrested.

—Daily Freeman

Nathan Newman, 58, was shot in the arm in Pottstown, Pa., Tuesday afternoon. He was holding his right arm, which was bleeding, as he walked to an ambulance. A large group of people stood in the intersection, some of whom were screaming. Police believe the shooting was targeted.

—The Mercury

David M. Hernandez, 25, who was shot in the Bridgeport neighborhood of Chicago Sunday night, died of his injuries Monday. Police said a blue vehicle drove up and someone got out and opened fire. The victim was a documented gang member.

—Chicago Sun-Times

Two men were shot and wounded at a home in Dodd City, Tex., Tuesday afternoon. Police have not revealed the circumstances of the shooting.

—KXII

Antonio Soto, 33, was found shot to death in the driver’s seat of a car in the North Ward of Newark, N.J., early Tuesday. In a separate incident, Latesha Townes, 31, who was shot Saturday morning, died of her injuries Monday afternoon. Townes was found shot at the scene of a three-car collision.

—NJ.com

Daylynn Smith, 21, was found lying shot to death in the street in the Hall Manor section of Harrisburg, Pa., late Tuesday. Authorities have not announced arrests or suspects.

—WHTM

Frankie Trammell, 24, was shot in the chest and killed in the Hill District of Pittsburgh, Pa., Tuesday evening. Police are asking anyone with information to come forward.

—WTAE

According to the Gun Violence Archive, 7,968 people have been injured by gun violence in America and 4,534 have been killed since Jan. 1, 2014. That number includes 16 police officers killed, 507children injured or killed and 380 instances of defensive gun use.

 

[jocal505]

I've had four*in cade you've asleep here for a while) good friends killed by gun fire over the years. And after 35 years, I still hold no ill will to the guns----but the fuckers who killed my friends. So fuk you and your mindless arguements.......

Iv

Don't go away all butt-hurt Rick. Stick around. Because no man on this website can lead with his chin like El Mariachi.

BTW, in your childrens' firearms classes to do you teach that twelve mass shootings in Seattle, with 57 dead in 31 years, is about right?

Do you present guns as nifty "tools" for young "suiciders"?

Here's researcher Hemenway, a respectful supporter of the Second Amendment:

We compared the United States to the other First World countries. We looked at both genders and all ages, but here are the statistics for 5- to 14-year-olds. A child in the United States compared to a child in Finland or France or New Zealand is not 20 percent more likely to be killed in a gun homicide, or 50 percent more likely, or twice as likely, or five times as likely. It’s 13 times higher.

[SIZE=10pt]Our gun suicide rate for these children is eight times higher.[/SIZE] Our non-gun suicide rate is average. For unintentional gun deaths, we have 10 times the likelihood of death [compared with other developed countries]. These children are at risk. When you do [SIZE=11.25pt]surveys[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] across states or cities or regions, you find that where there are more guns and more permissive gun laws, people are dying.[/SIZE]

We can do so much better. Other countries have done so much better.[...]

In a 2001 study, for example, small groups of boys from 8 to 12 years old spent 15 minutes in a room where a handgun was hidden in a drawer. More than two-thirds discovered the gun, more than half the groups handled it, and in more than a third of the groups someone pulled the trigger—despite the fact that more than 90 percent of the boys in the latter groups had received gun-safety instruction.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2004/09/death-by-the-barrel.html>

 

[Guest]

Bloomberg is going to spend more in a year than the NRA spends in a decade.

Money in politics is bad....sometimes.

Good, I hope he goes broke throwing himself at the castle walls....

 

[Guest]

Yes, but the article I linked is about an anonymous contribution in support of a law, not a person.

No, I get that. And it depends (to me) on how that money is used to "support" that law. If the money is used to buy speech in the form of TV ads, billboards, organizing rallies, Newspaper ads, etc in order to inform and educate or to persuade the public to tell their representatives what they would like "we the people" to do - than again he can have a nut.

If that money is being used to buy direct and personal access to the politicians (either for themselves or for lobbyists who represent them) who will vote on that law in order to sway their votes, or that money is being used to "buy" politicians by getting them re-elected to keep them in the rich guys' pocket - then I have a very serious problem with that. "WE THE PEOPLE" do not have that kind of access to our representatives, so I do not think that the rich anonymous guy should either. WE THE PEOPLE cannot call up the congress critters staff and say they want to come over and have lunch with the congressman. The rich guy can. WE THE PEOPLE do not get to actually write and edit the bills that go before congress to eventually become law. The rich guy can.

I do NOT want some anonymous person or corporation being able to directly influence our laws like that. If they want to spend all the money they want to indirectly influence a politician about an issue anonymously - fine. But IF they are actually sitting at the table in the room and whispering in the pols ear - then I fucking want to know who it is so I can make up my own mind if that is a good thing or not. I voted for the guy or gal - so he should be working for ME. Not some anonymous shadow entity who has more money than I do.

 

[Guest]

I originally was going to respond en masse to all your stuff at once, but thought I might have a better chance of you actually addressing my points if I break it up into easier to digest posts. I'm not holding my breath......

You seriously call ME the problem when I am the model gunowner you should be holding up as an example of what to do right. I am avid about safety, about responsibility, about logical and sane discourse, about compromise on some gun legislation, etc. And you STILL want to label ME as the problem??? Well, go fuck yourself. My gun ownership and my views DO NOT have any bearing or impact on the urban youth you pick up a gun everyday and shoot their rival drug dealer.

Jeff, you may be neither "the model gunowner", nor the "reasonable" person you think you are.

Just as one example, you support the open sale of fifty caliber battle weapons.

Yeah, so? How many .50 cal rifles have been used in the commission of a crime in the US? Why do you have such a hard-on for .50 Barrett rifles? I've asked you this question MANY times and not once have you answered me. I don't really expect this time to be any different. Are they just too scary looking for you?

"Model gunowner"? Baloney. Obviously, there are too many kooks out there, yet you want AW's and .50 cals circulating to empower their lethal whims.

Nah, .50 cal Barretts are too big and heavy for home defense.

And BTW - jojo, this is a perfect example of why I don't bother to engage with you any more..... I ask you a direct question above and its like you just ignore it to move right on to your usual cut-n-paste sermonizing. You can have a one way conversation with yourself. You've been doing it for years. Its like you have a standard playbook of answers and if someone actually asks you something that you have to think about and give an intelligent answer that's not in the playbook, you shut down. And then you attempt to distract by pasting something from another area of the playbook.

No one wants to have a conversation with pages of cunt and paste drivel. We've seen it all before. We can do the same too - there is plenty of stories and data on the other side too. If I wanted to do that, I would just ignore a "discussion" and only read articles. But I want you to defend yourself and your position in your own words. And then respond to direct questions or counter-arguments IN YOUR OWN WORDS. Not interested in volumes of cuntnpaste crao that is irrelevant to the posed question.

Enjoy your conversation by yourself. I suspect that is probably the norm for you in real life as well.....

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Bloomberg is going to spend more in a year than the NRA spends in a decade.

Money in politics is bad....sometimes.

It's not politics.

Everytown is a movement of Americans working together to end gun violence and build safer communities. Gun violence touches every town in America. For too long, change has been thwarted by the Washington gun lobby and by leaders who refuse to take common-sense steps that will save lives.

Glad to know that none of their "steps" will involve laws. Odd that they should mention lobbyists and "leaders" in the same sentence, since they are unrelated to "steps" that don't involve laws.

 

[Saorsa]

I don't think the Koch Bros give a rats fart about the second amendment. So long as they can protect their 470 billion in corporate welfare, they will continue to purchase the Republican party, one Congress Critter at a time....

Bloomberg got his money operating non-profits?

 

[jocal505]

I guess I need to remind you that the guns in U.S. houses, used between persons who know each other, do more damage than black drug dealers.

Then I will apparently need to remind you that you are full of shit...

/>

>Gun-related homicide is most prevalent among gangs and during the commission of felony crimes. In 1980, the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during arguments was about the same as from gang involvement (about 70 percent), but by 1993, nearly all gang-related homicides involved guns (95 percent), whereas the percentage of gun homicides related to arguments remained relatively constant. The percentage of gang-related homicides caused by guns fell slightly to 92 percent in 2008, but the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during the commission of a felony rose from about 60 percent to about 74 percent from 1980 to 2005.[5]

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/Pages/welcome.aspx#note5

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!! You are entitled to your own opinions. But not your own facts.

Jeff, you are dead wrong. This is VERY BASIC info on the subject of gun violence in the USA.

The sad fact is that you have typed away for the past 30 months without having a clue about something very important.

Show some class here, and do some open-minded homework for a change.

And Dude you are name-calling again, based on your opinionated, dead-wrong, misinformation.

I stand by my statement, and request an apology.

You are entitled to your opinion, but not to your own facts III.

Based on data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports (SHR), among homicides in which the victim-offender relationship could be determined, strangers committed between 21 percent and 27 percent of homicides from 1993 to 2008, compared to between 73 percent and 79 percent of homicides committed by offenders known to the victims.

Pasted from <http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/vvcs9310pr.cfm>

You are much more likely to be murdered by a partner, family member, friend or acquaintance. In 2004-05 only 2 percent of female and 25 percent of male victims were killed by a stranger. These percentages do not change very much over time.

Pasted from <http://malini.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=1177>

 

[jocal505]

Jeff, instead of just typing in ad hominems, you might read the information provided. It would prevent you from being so ignorant.

Are you man enough to face the facts?

Two gun violence researchers, Kellerman and Webster IIRC, were MD's who noticed quite a few homeowners in ER's with bullet wounds, but very few perps. Curious, they independently set out to do studies on the subject for twenty years, and the figures solidly confirmetd their impression in the ER. I've mentioned this before, Jeff.

Violent Victimization Committed By Strangers, 1993-2010

Erika Harrell, Ph.D.

December 11, 2012 NCJ 239424

Presents findings on the rates and levels of violent victimization committed by offenders who were strangers to the victims, including homicide, rape or sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault. The report presents annual trends and compares changes across three 6-year periods in the incidence and type of violence committed by strangers from 1993 through 2010. It describes the characteristics of victims and circumstances of the violent crime. The nonfatal violent victimization estimates were developed from the Bureau of Justice Statistics' National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which collects information on nonfatal crimes, reported and not reported to the police, against persons age 12 or older from a nationally representative sample of U.S. households. The homicide data are from the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports (SHR) for 1993 through 2008.

Highlights:

• In 2010, strangers committed about 38% of nonfatal violent crimes, including rape/sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault.
• In 2005-10, about 10% of violent victimizations committed by strangers involved a firearm, compared to 5% committed by offenders known to the victim.
• From 1993 to 2008, among homicides reported to the FBI for which the victim-offender relationship was known, between 21% and 27% of homicides were committed by strangers and between 73% and 79% were committed by offenders known to the victims.

About the Source Data

National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)

Pasted from <http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4557>

The Top 5 Murders by Relationship to the Victim in the United States



Relationship

(victim)

Number of Murders

(2011)

Percentage of Total Murders

1

Acquaintence

2,700

21.3%

2

Wife

552

4.3%

3

Girlfriend

474

3.7%

4

Friend

377

2.97%

5

Other family

279

2.2%
Sources: FBI Uniform Crime Report: Crime in the United States, 2011.

List Notes: Data is relationship of victim to offender (according to the data killers kill acquaintances far more than they kill fellow co-workers for example). Data is latest available data for the year 2012. Figures are based on 12,664 murders in the United States in 2011 for whom supplemental homicide data was received. Murder as defined here includes murder and non-negligent manslaughter which is the willful killing of one human being by another. The relationship categories of husband and wife include both common-law and ex-spouses.

inShare

1. Out of 13,636 murders studied in the United States, 30.2% of the victims were murdered by persons known to them (4,119 victims)[SIZE=10pt], 13.6% were murdered by family members (1,855 victims),[/SIZE] 12.3% were murdered by strangers (1,676 victims)[SIZE=10pt] and 43.9% of the relationships were unknown (investigators were not able to establish any relationship).[/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=10pt]Murders were the least frequent violent victimization of all categories -- about 5 murder victims per 100,000 persons in 2009.[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=10pt]The number of homicides where the victim/offender relationship was undetermined has been increasing since 1999 but has not reached the levels experienced in the early 1990s.[/SIZE] Between the years 1976 and 2005 the following facts were found: about one-third of the victims were acquaintances of the assailant, 14% of all murders, the victim and the offender were strangers, and spouses and family members made up about 15% of all victims.
   

WHEN MURDERS ARE NOT COMMITTED BY STRANGERS

Which is most of the time March 27, 2011

(NATIONAL) -- It might surprise many of us to know that only 15% of all murders are committed at random by a stranger; someone who does not know the victim.

And even then, the two people usually have mutual friends and acquaintances, which explains why the killer and the victim are in the same place at the same time.

Yet many assume that most murders are committed by strangers and view the discovery that a murder is not random as news.

And why would that be?

Well, it turns out, writes Christopher Beam in a new piece on Slate about the recent killing of Jayna Murray at the Lululemon Athletica store in Bethesda, Md., the FBI is partly to blame. In the early 1990s, the bureau released a report claiming that half of all homicides were committed by strangers.

But unfortunately that report was flawed.

The media is partly to blame as well. Murders don't typically make big news unless there's something unusual about them. And by covering random crime, in an often sensational way, news outfits help to create the impression that most crime is random.

Beam’s piece can be read HERE

Pasted from <http://www.skyvalleychronicle.com/BREAKING-NEWS/WHEN-MURDERS-ARE-NOT-COMMITTED-BY-STRANGERS-br-Which-is-most-of-the-time-625525>

The FBI Uniform Crime Report will give you an answer of a sort, but only two out of three homicides are ‘solved by arrest.’

If you click on the link immediately above you will find there were 12,996 murder victims but the relationship between the murderer and victim were “unknown” in 4,656 of those. That does not mean that the victim was killed by a stranger, only that the killer is “unknown to the police.” So there is really not enough data to provide a defensible answer to the question.

That said, statistical analysis pegs the most likely number between 1800 (14%) to 2200 (17%) a year.

Stranger

Pasted from <http://extranosalley.com/?p=25008>

Percentage of murders are convicted by a stranger?

In probably upwards of 80 or 90-percent of homicides, there is some sort of relationship.

Pasted from <http://www.chacha.com/question/what-percentage-of-murders-are-convicted-by-a-stranger>

 

[jocal505]

Thanks for the acceptable tone, Jeff. Good question.

But for one thing, I haven't had a handgun since I was 13 (at which time I had three). As mentioned several other times, my gun is a $27 NM pawnshop special semi-auto Marlin .22 rifle, fitted with a scope.

I keep it for nostalgic reasons (guns taught me to gain the trust of my father). And I keep it because I have a right to, and because of demands of a mindless bully on SA PA, and...because I feel gunowners are the whole problem in this matter, and I am one of them: I am a lifetime gunowner.

The gun is kept 23 paces into my shop building, which is 70 paces away. Like Wofsey, the ammo is kept elsewhere.

Actually, my wife and I disagree on very little. Plus I guess we have a natural pattern of being mutually respectful. Seriously, I can't even remember our last argument--but in any flares of temper at whatever, the track record is that we stay out of each other's face, and are, well, simply, mutually helpful moments later.

Furthermore, I have little or no interest in using it, even in our present rural setting, because of the obnoxious noise and its effect on neighbors. Being a committed, disciplined pacifist, violence and temper problems are not so much in my nature, or in my track record, either. But yes, there's a risk having any gun around.

Please note that I am not encouraging general use of firearms on the public at this point. Guns have become a cultural problem.

That said, if I am "batshit crazy" and "clinically insane" (as diagnosed by a certain choirboy), some mechanism should be in place to recover that damn gun, IMO. Hell, I'd even volunteer to take such a test, and would simply hand it over if I failed any strident gun-suitability examination.

Which is easy for me to say: things have changed for me and I find that thing offensive.

**********************************************************

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE is name-calling, Jeffie. And you still need to back it up, Pal.

Jeff, you provided NO stats on most homicides being gang-related. Zip. Here's what Eric Holder said in your link:

In 1980 70% of argument fatalities were gun-related.

By 1993 that percentage remained constant.

In 1980 70% of gang homicide were caused by firearms.

In 1993 95% of gang related homicides involved guns.

In 2008 92% of gang-related homicides involved guns .

In 1980 60% of homicides during the commission of a felony were caused by firearms

In 2005 74% of homicides during the commission of a felony were caused by firearms

The stats in your source ALL related to the percentage of gun homicides which occurred within three different groups: NONE presented the number of total gang homicides within the number of total national homicides. I am weary of pointing this out. OTOH, for the third time, here's a credible 9-year average:

• From 2007 through 2011, a sizeable majority (more than 80 percent) of respondents provided data on gang-related homicides in their jurisdictions.
• The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged more than 1,900 annually from 2007 to 2011. During the same time period, the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 12 percent of all homicides annually.

To refute the NRA-driven your-guns-vs-crime bullshit, I provided five sources which indicate stranger danger is not the problem with guns, dammit. Here's the one (again) which averages 27 years of figures based of FBI data. I'm hoping we can move forward, bro.

Based on data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports (SHR), among homicides in which the victim-offender relationship could be determined, strangers committed between 21 percent and 27 percent of homicides from 1993 to 2008, compared to between 73 percent and 79 percent of homicides committed by offenders known to the victims.

Pasted from <http://www.bjs.gov/c.../vvcs9310pr.cfm>

 

[jocal505]

If I choose to have a gun, it is my freedom to do so.

If I want to caution the world about the danger of having them around, free speech allows this.

My "cut and paste drivel" contains the facts which you say I don't have.

Your STFU from two days ago is toothless: it's a violation of the very Bill of Rights you say you are all about.

"Hypocrite" is also name-calling, a further ad hominem (needed because your argument lacks substance, and has been exposed several times).

Simple Jeff, no hard figures are included in or around your red ink. Zip. Just two unsubstantiated declarative sentences, in a source which appears to be on a different topic: guns causing generally increasing homicides within different groups, gangs included.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts IV.

I provided hard sources. Enough for an honest person to understand that gangs ARE NOT the cause of the "vast majority" (your words) of U.S. homicides. Rather, acquaintances, not gangs or strangers, cause most of the U.S. gun homicides.

You are not discussing in good faith, after requesting direct engagement.

I guess you are a just gun wanker. And your "bitch slap" turns out to be an evasive "swing and a miss".

It's what I expected, though. You have wasted my time, you simple, evasive, dishonest fellow.

Speaking of evasion, from earlier in this thread (also in response to your challenge for direct engagement), you have simply not addressed the reasons why epidememiologists (those who study and cure epidemics), not MADD, will set the standards for Everytown for Gun Safety.

Jeff, you could be part of the solution here, IMO. But you need to step it up.

 

[Regatta Dog]

If I choose to have a gun, it is my freedom to do so.

If I want to caution the world about the danger of having them around, free speech allows this.

Speech is responsible for far more deaths than guns. With that in mind, do you think we need more control on speech?

 

[jocal505]

No, of course not. For reasons explained three or four other times.

Because no total figure of U.S. gun homicides, in any year, is presented in your link.

Nor is any total number of gang homicides, in any year, quoted. Go to work. Try the search function.

Once a person has the two numbers, basic mathematical division can answer our question.

I will grant you that your source is written in a confusing way, but it does not indicate what you say it does.

Here is a clearer summary of your figures,(now in red, above). If I am summarizing your figures inaccurately, let me know. But the info seems to say:

In 1980 70% of argument fatalities were gun-related. (It doesn't say if these arguments were with strangers or otherwise. Poor info, Jeff.)

By 1993 that percentage remained constant.

In 1980 70% of gang homicide were caused by firearms.

In 1993 95% of gang related homicides involved guns.

In 2008 92% of gang-related homicides involved guns .

In 1980 60% of homicides during the commission of a felony were caused by firearms

In 2005 74% of homicides during the commission of a felony were caused by firearms

To explain it differently (as if you were a third grader or something), you are repeatedly claiming a "vast majority" of U.S. homicides are gang related, or are criminals randomly killing strangers. Therefore you need to find a gang or random criminal murder figure for a "vast majority", say 70%, of 12,000 annual homicides. That's 8400 annual gun murders related to gangs (or random perps). You cannot do that. A simple majority would be 51% of 12,000, or 6120. You can't do that either. The best info I have is that the actual gang gun homicide figure is around 1,900 annually from 2007 to 2011.

Unless you are much denser upstairs than I thought, this direct discussion, requested by yourself, is a farce because of how you have handled it, IMHO.

The point we are facing here is KEY. It is very important. We are discussing that misunderstandings with loved ones and associates, in the presence of our many guns, are doing the horrific gun damage in the USA. Not "bad guys with guns", as presented by the fear-mongering gun lobby.

Take care, big guy.