Bluff bow, long overhanding stern... Older FP article?

alteredst88

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There was an article or maybe it was just a thread a while back about a working sailboat with a bluff bow and a long overhanging stern. I've searched the archives and the forums with no luck. Can someone help a brother out?

G

 

Somebody Else

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"Cod's head and mackerel tail" working boats?

There certainly were more than one or two of those...

Especially around England, mid-19th century.

 

Ishmael

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There was an article or maybe it was just a thread a while back about a working sailboat with a bluff bow and a long overhanging stern. I've searched the archives and the forums with no luck. Can someone help a brother out?

G
At a wild guess, it was in the Cool Boats thread in Cruising Anarchy.

 

RKoch

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The English and French pilot cutters at the turn of the century often had bluff bows and overhanging sterns. See Jolie Brise. Some cruisers were modelled on those lines.

 

Ishmael

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Are we getting closer?

cutter.jpg


 

fastyacht

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It was an artifact of the English tonnage admeasurement which taxed based on beam X Length on keel.

Solution to that problem was narrow and deep, with a highly raking sternpost to shorten the keel length.

Yes, the yacht racing ratings were based on the same rule originally, which produced their plank on edge cutters versus our centerboarders.

My favourite though, lookwize, is French. There is a photo from ecades back, in Classic Boat or maybe the French equivalent, taken at Dounarez. (sp?). Tall ketch rig of stacked standing lugsails. Absolutely stunning! I forget what these boats were called. I knew it once but escapes me.

 
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alteredst88

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Very close Ishmael. That's the look. There was a thread (or maybe an FP article) about the history of the design. Maybe there was a modern CAD rendering of a boat with similar lines? I'm grasping at straws here and I know it... Thanks for any info!

G

 

RKoch

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It was an artifact of the English tonnage admeasurement which taxed based on beam X Length on keel.

Solution to that problem was narrow and deep, with a highly raking sternpost to shorten the keel length.

Yes, the yacht racing ratings were based on the same rule originally, which produced their plank on edge cutters versus our centerboarders.

My favourite though, lookwize, is French. There is a photo from ecades back, in Classic Boat or maybe the French equivalent, taken at Dounarez. (sp?). Tall ketch rig of stacked standing lugsails. Absolutely stunning! I forget what these boats were called. I knew it once but escapes me.
I think what you are describing are French sardine boats. I don't remember what they are called, but Claude Worth described them in his book Yacht Cruising, based on observations during a cruise to France 100 years ago. He was quite impressed with them. BTW, that book is hard to find now (and expensive), but I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the early days of cruising and old school methods. Still a lot of info and ideas that apply to today.... though the instructions on reefing a bowsprit and salting beef are quaint, but entertaining.
 

RKoch

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All sorts of French fishing boats. Probably most famous are the bisquines.

2 replicas of the later form sailing: La Granvillaise

800px-Bisquine_La_Granvillaise_in_Rosmeur.jpg


La Cancalaise

Tonnerres_de_Brest_2012-Cancalaise_Eulalie.JPG


You have to say that those are fucking crazy rigs.

One form of offshore tuna boat was the dundee

Dundee.JPG
Thankyou very much, Ed. Thats probably the boats fastyacht was thinking of, I couldn't locate a photo. I agree, pretty crazy. Topsails for light air speed (no motors), and lug rig to easily set sail off the beach.
 

Presuming Ed

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Thankyou very much, Ed. Thats probably the boats fastyacht was thinking of, I couldn't locate a photo. I agree, pretty crazy. Topsails for light air speed (no motors), and lug rig to easily set sail off the beach.
The Scottish version: a fifie, Reaper in this case. 70' LOA with a 1,130.2 sq ft DIPPING lug main. Can you imagine swinging the heel of the yard round the mast when tacking? Ouf. Hard men - don't think I would tell one of them to HTFU.

461684544.jpg


 

moody frog

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All sorts of French fishing boats. Probably most famous are the bisquines.

2 replicas of the later form sailing: La Granvillaise

800px-Bisquine_La_Granvillaise_in_Rosmeur.jpg


La Cancalaise

Tonnerres_de_Brest_2012-Cancalaise_Eulalie.JPG


You have to say that those are fucking crazy rigs.

One form of offshore tuna boat was the dundee

Dundee.JPG
Thankyou very much, Ed. Thats probably the boats fastyacht was thinking of, I couldn't locate a photo. I agree, pretty crazy. Topsails for light air speed (no motors), and lug rig to easily set sail off the beach.
Horses for courses !Bisquines were Oyster dredgers. Dredging time being limited by the administration (and the banks guarded): light wind speed was paramount to be there in time and to get back in time for the catch to grab the Paris train. All of out of drying-out Harbour.

+ the need to quickly and effectively reduce sail for the dredging leg, then re-hoist to get back to the start.

 
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