Books about composite boatuilding

[slug zitski]

nothing wrong with inquisitive study

some of the best yacht related info comes from New Zealand and the Netherlands …papers

they put a lot of effort into studying slamming loads , composite panel structures …..

that stuff is on the internet as PDFs

the problem is finding it with google, then understanding the engineering in the documents

use “ High performance yacht design conference “ in your search

https://www.blur.se/images/The-effects-of-staysails-on-yacht-performance.pdf

 

[guerdon]

There are no books that show current composite building procedures or scantlings. Find a builder whose work impresses you and pay them to help you. It's like building and programming a new computer, except that with a boat if you are wrong you can die. If you find an older boat you may find some of the current books helpful but make sure that you keep within the scantlings that were used on that era. Good luck.

 

[eliboat]

The current state of the art is to use FEA, in conjunction with classification rules to refine structures. The more you know about your loads, the better you can design your structures and the lighter you can make them. What Slug mentioned earlier about uncharted territory is still somewhat true, but it’s becoming much less so every day as load cells become more and more common on less exotic boats. Also, at the very tippy edge of things..AC, Sail GP, IMOCA etc, the amount of data being generated is astronomical relative to just a few years back. Given that there are only a handful of yacht structures firms/engineers around the world, all of this data is getting absorbed and being used into make far more informed decisions about less exotic structures.

 

[slug zitski]

The current state of the art is to use FEA, in conjunction with classification rules to refine structures. The more you know about your loads, the better you can design your structures and the lighter you can make them. What Slug mentioned earlier about uncharted territory is still somewhat true, but it’s becoming much less so every day as load cells become more and more common on less exotic boats. Also, at the very tippy edge of things..AC, Sail GP, IMOCA etc, the amount of data being generated is astronomical relative to just a few years back. Given that there are only a handful of yacht structures firms/engineers around the world, all of this data is getting absorbed and being used into make far more informed decisions about less exotic structures.

Still plenty of fudge factor

you may scientifically know the loading and material properties …then you must design something that normal human boatbuilders can actually build and something with a long lifespan

I’ve seen shipyard engineers reject yacht designer engineering because …we can’t build that , or…way too expensive

 

[Raz'r]

of course i'll use vacuum infusion, i thought that comes with territory of building FG samwich hull to save weight.

vacuum infusion does many things. Saving weight is not one of them.

 

[pironiero]

human boatbuilders can actually build and something with a long lifespan

thats why im going for class 40 lookalike, lots of developable surfaces and stuff

 

[eliboat]

Still plenty of fudge factor

you may scientifically know the loading and material properties …then you must design something that normal human boatbuilders can actually build and something with a long lifespan

I’ve seen shipyard engineers reject yacht designer engineering because …we can’t build that , or…way too expensive

Yes… this happens from time to time. It almost never happens when you’re dealing with ultra lightweight composites. The yards that do this stuff are as specialized as the engineers in most cases and they usually have right working relationships. You will consistently see the same yards/yacht designers/ and structures engineers working on project after project as they all trust and respect each other. What you are describing usually happens when that mix is altered.

 

[pironiero]

vacuum infusion does many things. Saving weight is not one of them.

can you clarify on that?

 

[Raz'r]

Sure, the first vacuum-infused boats, "SCRIMP" J105s were heavier than the boats built by hand layup. They were more uniform of course, and the styrenes were contained so good pollution control, but they were heavier. And there is a lot of waste in vacuum infusion. Making up panels at home on occasion, I use epoxy, peel ply and vacuum for consolidation. Infusion is tricky, you can end up with dry spots, etc. Of course you can with hand-layup as well, but I seem to have that figured out. I would only use infusion if I was going into a production mode, or if I was using poly or vinyl-ester resins.

J-105 SCRIMP construction

i know that scrimp is thought to be a bit heavier. but, i've also heard that the scrimp hulls have less trouble with moisture in the core - is that generally accepted?

forums.sailinganarchy.com

 

[slug zitski]

Yes… this happens from time to time. It almost never happens when you’re dealing with ultra lightweight composites. The yards that do this stuff are as specialized as the engineers in most cases and they usually have right working relationships. You will consistently see the same yards/yacht designers/ and structures engineers working on project after project as they all trust and respect each other. What you are describing usually happens when that mix is altered.

Yup

there exists a high tech traveling gang of composite builders that are involved with all the latest custom stuff

sometimes, when you are at the right place at the right time…..when they are between builds … you can even hire them for your own backyard project

 

[FD Sea Dog]

no, for me building a boat is at least 50% of fun

My experience started with a small Automobile Company called Avanti (1970's). We made Handmade Fiberglass Car Bodies in Shop with a Studebaker frame and Corvette drive train.
A lot has changed with 'Composites' since then. Koenigsegg Auto and Baltic Yachts use cutting edge methods.

You have you start somewhere, so I suggest a Car Body Shop is as good a place to develop your Skills. Resin handling is an acquired skill. That said, If you can handle a Paint Roller, you can handle layup. However, having the technique mastered is what makes the difference between a good job and a bad job.

Books are one thing, it takes years to Master technique. You have to commit yourself.
Start with a small simple Plug, then work yourself up to an F-1 Body.

Today's 'Composites' run the spectrum of uses.
Carbon Fiber vs Kevlar vs Fiberglass - Which one is right for YOU?

Aeolos Composites documented the Process extremely well.he
https://www.aeoloscomposites.com/post/first-hull-of-aeolos-flying-dutchman-a-picture-story

To answer your Question:
There is a ton of books available, from the Basic to the Deep Engineering.

Title: Canoe and boat building. A complete manual for amateurs. Containing plain and comprehensive directions for the construction of canoes, rowing and sailing boats and hunting craft
Author(s): Stephens W.P. (Ed.)
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=6272FFF0C3B9F4A17A4F618A5C4B1173

Title: Durability of Composites in a Marine Environment
Author(s): John Summerscales (auth.), Peter Davies, Yapa D.S. Rajapakse (eds.)
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=3C9BE21AFEA3959A9A606CF2A24FC85F

Title: Marine applications of advanced fibre-reinforced composites
Author(s): Graham-Jones, Jasper; Summerscales, John
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=9229602BE19669D4E1648167EF14C18B

Title: Marine composites: design and performance
Author(s): Graham-Jones, Jasper; Pemberton, Richard; Summerscales, John
https://www.libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=50D06D98B520AB0D7BB1194D0D581149

Tons more available ...
Composites
Epoxy

 

[pironiero]

Books are one thing, it takes years to Master technique. You have to commit yourself.

yeah, but after i've lost my home the only option i have is to make a 1:10 model

 

[mckenzie.keith]

vacuum infusion does many things. Saving weight is not one of them.

Well, compared to hand layup it will have less resin and therefore be lighter. So I think it can be argued that it does save weight.

 

[pironiero]

Yup

there exists a high tech traveling gang of composite builders that are involved with all the latest custom stuff

sometimes, when you are at the right place at the right time…..when they are between builds … you can even hire them for your own backyard project

i probably wont have that much of money, i can only depend on myself and for a couple of guys i can hire to help me flip the hull

 

[slug zitski]

i probably wont have that much of money, i can only depend on myself and for a couple of guys i can hire to help me flip the hull

Sometimes …the best way to get expert knowledge is to sign on to a high tech build as a simple labourer

after a few months you get pretty smart

this is how most composite guys grow into pros

 

[slug zitski]

i probably wont have that much of money, i can only depend on myself and for a couple of guys i can hire to help me flip the hull

Yah

that the problem with backyard builds …you are a singlehanded so you must choose a build method suitable for singlehanded , tiny crew construction

that why wood epoxy is so popular…excellent results that normal humans can achieve

 

[slug zitski]

And choose a design specifically designed for home building

serveral designers specialize in this

Boat plans, yacht designs & boat kits from Dudley Dix Yacht Design & Boat Plans

 

[Raz'r]

Well, compared to hand layup it will have less resin and therefore be lighter. So I think it can be argued that it does save weight.

Not hand-layup with vacuum consolidation...

 

[Raz'r]

Yah

that the problem with backyard builds …you are a singlehanded so you must choose a build method suitable for singlehanded , tiny crew construction

that why wood epoxy is so popular…excellent results that normal humans can achieve

For one-off, wood epoxy makes a LOT of sense.

 

[longy]

Vacuum infusion usually results in a heavier finished product than older hand lay-up methods. Why? because v/i completely fills any/every void with resin, where older techniques would have filled those with an ultra lite compound or left an air space. Kerfed core panels are a big source of gaps - as they are bent to the curves desired all the kerf slices open up to some degree. In hand layup these were filled with a very light fairing compound before the next layers of structural glass was added. Doesn't seem like much, but when J 105's went to direct weight measuring to achieve even weights, pre-scrimp (vacuum) hulls all needed about 250 lbs of added weights.