boy is this girl in for a surprise..

lasal

Super Anarchist
2,558
173
Denver
Did you read the linked article? She apparently has or had some rather severe mental issues. I never mentioned a word about whose idea this is or "what drives her" because I have no way of knowing.
No offense, but you're making a lazy assumption when you throw around "mental issues" without describing what your talking about specifically.

Edit: on the "making her an internet media star" comment, that sounded like plain old innuendo that by supporting her people are harming her. If you think that, why? She has taken up the cause, quite effectively, and isn't it up to her?

 
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kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
29,321
7,011
Kent Island!
No offense, but you're making a lazy assumption when you throw around "mental issues" without describing what your talking about specifically.
I could go cut and paste, but you can read it yourself too.

Never mind - here you go:

Greta is eleven years old and has gone two months without eating. Her heart rate and blood pressure show clear signs of starvation. She has stopped speaking to anyone but her parents and younger sister, Beata. 

After years of depression, eating disorders, and anxiety attacks, she finally receives a medical diagnosis: Asperger’s syndrome, high-functioning autism, and OCD. She also suffers from selective mutism—which explains why she sometimes can’t speak to anyone outside her closest family. When she wants to tell a climate researcher that she plans a school strike on behalf of the environment, she speaks through her father.

The book Scenes from the Heart (“Scener från Hjärtat,” 2018) recounts these medical difficulties and the events that led to Greta Thunberg’s now-famous “school strike for climate,” in which hundreds of thousands of children have refused to attend school to protest about government inaction over climate change.

 
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dogwatch

Super Anarchist
18,549
2,585
South Coast, UK
You said "instant credibility" after pointing out that we don't let kids vote. Looked like a "too young to have credibility" argument to me. Perhaps those 19 people, I missed that post, find her quite credible.
I may have liked that post, I certainly liked some making similar points. If I did it had nothing to do with an assessment of credibility, it was to with campaigning effectiveness. 

 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,583
1,437
SoCal
You are forgetting that the gasoline engine is around 30-40% efficient at best and an electric motor is over 80%.

BTW - externalities include the damage the pollution does and the large military needed to keep various bad actors from disrupting the oil markets. An externality of a coal powered device would include acid range damage.

* ever go on a trip on a coal fired train? Fun for nostalgia but it would suck balls to live near a track that carried a lot of them.
Good point about not factoring in thermal efficiency of the gas engine...

Externalities of batteries will include the damage to the environment from mining Lithium and Nickel, and then the military needed to keep various bad actors from disrupting mining operations.  Plus the added instability in the Middle East in particular should the oil market collapse.

I'm not arguing for continued use of petroleum as the primary source of energy, only trying to highlight the challenges of replacing it with something else.

 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
29,321
7,011
Kent Island!
You said you hope she doesn't stress out and go on a hunger strike. How nice of you. But you don't explain anything except you find her history disqualifying on it's face. That's not too nice, it's lazy.
You apparently did not read the linked article explaining her history of mental illness and anorexia. Having mental illness is not disqualifying nor qualifying, but potentially not a fun thing to deal with at sea. I really do hope nothing on this voyage triggers a relapse of her more severe past issues.

I do think *any* 16 year old child growing up in the middle or upper class in a 1st world country has a weak grasp at best of anything to do with adult responsibility.

 

batkinmok

New member
34
3
The Ocean
Also, to clarify-  China is the "most polluting" overall, while the US is the most polluting "per capita."  Meaning, China pollutes more by virtue of the fact that their population greatly exceeds the United States, while each person in the United States pollutes more on an individual basis by consuming more energy and generating more municipal waste.

https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html
Well yes, emission per country numbers are useless because obviously a country with a much  bigger population must emit more. It just seemes like some people in north america might feel entitled to emit more than say an Indian. I am looking at a marina right now that has a steady stream of giant motoryachts coming and going all summer. Those boats probably burn as much fuel in a couple weeks vacation as the average Indian on his scooter in what? his lifetime? Doesnt seem fair pointing fingers at him now does it?

 

lasal

Super Anarchist
2,558
173
Denver
You apparently did not read the linked article explaining her history of mental illness and anorexia. Having mental illness is not disqualifying nor qualifying, but potentially not a fun thing to deal with at sea. I really do hope nothing on this voyage triggers a relapse of her more severe past issues.

I do think *any* 16 year old child growing up in the middle or upper class in a 1st world country has a weak grasp at best of anything to do with adult responsibility.
Thurnberg obviously has a much stronger grasp of "adult responsibility" than most adults. Striking on Friday's, because there isn't time to wait, grasped a whole lot. Kielberger realized that adults were not doing anything to prevent children being sold into slavery. I think *a lot* of 16 year olds have a better understanding of responsibility than a lot of adults.

 

KC375

Super Anarchist
3,305
1,760
Northern Hemisphere
...

However, our/my earlier points that:

1.) Greta has energized how many millions of kids to make a stand and start screaming about why the fucking adults can't get their shit together

2.) Greta is on a SAILBOAT...never mind what sailboat, she's on a bloody boat for God's sake

3.) and maybe, as sailors, we should be talking about how to somehow turn this opportunity into some way to reach kids and teach them something about sailing, instead of pissing on Sailing Anarchy about whether it takes more petroleum to build an open 60, or fly across the Atlantic

still stands.


...

Most rationale people can see that it effectively communicates three things:

1) It demonstrates her conviction

2) People may question their own travel or broader lifestyle choices 

3) That more IMOCAs should be on UK breakfast news
It seems to me there are a number of issues being discussed, some of which I think we can find a consensus on.

1.       Anthropocene climate change and solutions to it. That’s an interesting topic to debate that I doubt we will gain consensus on.

2.       Greta is a sincere teenager who is genuinely trying to do some good. Out of deference to her age, her naivety/inexperience, and her mental health, we should treat her with kindness and respect, even those of use who are cynical about her cause or her effectiveness. I hope we can gain consensus on that.

3.       Greta has generated a significant following and media attention. I think we can accept that as fact.

4.       Greta has chosen sailing as a way to help communicate her message. Again that is simply a fact.

It seems to me as well meaning people with an interest in sailing and promoting sailing we don’t need to get into the hypocrisy or not of her venture. We can simply welcome her as someone who can help raise the profile of sailing. By the time she has crossed the Atlantic we can welcome her as a legit sailor (or at least voyager). We should be looking at opportunities to do that in a way that does not undermine or contradict her effort but allows sailing to benefit from the additional attention.

Who’s organizing the welcome party featuring a bunch leading sailors...ideally young sailors?

Who’s organizing or help organize her trip back by sailboat...maybe adding in a bunch of other attendees from the conference....?

 
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Israel Hands

Super Anarchist
3,550
2,228
coastal NC
You said you hope she doesn't stress out and go on a hunger strike. How nice of you. But you don't explain anything except you find her history disqualifying on it's face. That's not too nice, it's lazy.
Check yourself there, youngster. You are accusing him of personal attacks on Greta that IMO weren't made. Yet you are the one throwing around the personal barbs ("not too nice, lazy").  

It's like I tell my son - when you over-prosecute the argument, you start losing support. 

I'm a fan of what Greta is doing. But know-all sermons and accusations in support of her are a turn-off.

 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
29,321
7,011
Kent Island!
It seems to me there are a number of issues being discussed, some of which I think we can find a consensus on.

1.       Anthropocene climate change and solutions to it. That’s an interesting topic to debate that I doubt we will gain consensus on.

2.       Greta is a sincere teenager who is genuinely trying to do some good. Out of deference to her age, her naivety/inexperience, and her mental health, we should treat her with kindness and respect, even those of use who are cynical about her cause or her effectiveness. I hope we can gain consensus on that.

3.       Greta has generated a significant following and media attention. I think we can accept that as fact.

4.       Greta has chosen sailing as a way to help communicate her message. Again that is simply a fact.

It seems to me as well meaning people with an interest in sailing and promoting sailing we don’t need to get into the hypocrisy or not of her venture. We can simply welcome her as someone who can help raise the profile of sailing. By the time she has crossed the Atlantic we can welcome her as a legit sailor (or at least voyager). We should be looking at opportunities to do that in a way that does not undermine or contradict her effort but allows sailing to benefit from the additional attention.

Who’s organizing the welcome party featuring a bunch leading sailors...ideally young sailors?

Who’s organizing or help organize her trip back by sailboat...maybe adding in a bunch of other attendees from the conference....?
Just FYI - she is going to Chile next, not back home, so maybe hold off on organizing another sailing trip.

 

lasal

Super Anarchist
2,558
173
Denver
Check yourself there, youngster. You are accusing him of personal attacks on Greta that IMO weren't made. Yet you are the one throwing around the personal barbs ("not too nice, lazy").  

It's like I tell my son - when you over-prosecute the argument, you start losing support. 

I'm a fan of what Greta is doing. But know-all sermons and accusations in support of her are a turn-off.
you're breaking yer own rules there, pops. I'm good with Kent, and he's honestly calling it like he sees it. I'm simply pointing out that he's making some assumptions that he might look into, both re mental illness, and re "adult responsibility." It's responsibility indeed that Thurnberg is taking, along with a lot of other young people out there today and in the past.

 

Ajax

Super Anarchist
15,152
3,469
Edgewater, MD
Well yes, emission per country numbers are useless because obviously a country with a much  bigger population must emit more. It just seemes like some people in north america might feel entitled to emit more than say an Indian. I am looking at a marina right now that has a steady stream of giant motoryachts coming and going all summer. Those boats probably burn as much fuel in a couple weeks vacation as the average Indian on his scooter in what? his lifetime? Doesnt seem fair pointing fingers at him now does it?
I would simply say developed nations, not lay the blame solely at North America's feet but on the whole, i agree with you.

All I can do, is try to live my life responsibly, which I am doing. I don't feel "entitled" and I'm not pointing fingers.

 

KC375

Super Anarchist
3,305
1,760
Northern Hemisphere
Just FYI - she is going to Chile next, not back home, so maybe hold off on organizing another sailing trip.
But the skiing there is great this time of year. With global warming I feel an obligation to get in as many trips as I can before the snow is gone. I do this as an obligation to my grand chidren so I can tell them stories about the "before" times.

 

KC375

Super Anarchist
3,305
1,760
Northern Hemisphere
If you look at per-capita emmissions, it also looks like people in very hot places may also use a lot of energy. Reasons aren't hard to fathom. 
The size of some of the AC units on the palaces in Riyadh are pretty impressive...70% of Saudi electricity goes to air conditioning, 20% to desalinate water, 10% for everything else.

 



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