Brexit WTF, WTF

[Waynemarlow]

Agree but wasn’t the Kingspan panels the original start of the fire wicking slowly over the fitted fire stops driven by the high winds on the day. If the outer panels hadn’t done this the Celotex behind it would have been perfectly safe and that is the debate at the moment where both the manufacturers are blaming each other for not conforming to the fire tests used in the original design.
 

What hasn’t been mentioned much was the hot dry wind that fuelled the original breakout from the flat and then dramatically fuelled the total destruction of the outer panels. 
 

I know one of the legal team actually working on the case, nothing much has been said in bar talk,  but I guess one of these days it will all be public knowledge and they will be able to tell the full story. At the moment it would seem “ it was all their fault “”

 

[Albatros]

from a nice newspaper article, on a lighter note... scones, sausages and pork pie, typical british products also sold in some British specialty shops overhere.

scones : due to very thin sales margins the british bakeries don't export it anymore to us, the paperwork would make it too expensive and difficulty in view of low to medium volume, so a bakery in Northern France is now baking and distributing scones

sausages : same story, they are now imported from Ireland instead

pork pie : now this one is really funny to me, same story BUT the Irish refuse to make 'em because it's too unhealthy

and next, as seen from a couple of the  British specialty shop owners :

language problem : ingredients in a product must be on the packaging in the language where it is sold, before Brexit our authorities turned a blind eye on the fact that those british specialty products showed contents only in the english lingo, not in Flemish or French or German,  reasoning " it's EU anyway and english is therefore ok", but now with brexit done they have changed opinion "UK not in EU, therefore not ok to show only english lingo, and fact that english is also lingo of Malta and Eire does not matter"  ...so shop owners need to add own labels, lots of work as British suppliers also don't think it's worthwhile to add other languages

shop owner on the coast here would take ferry each week to get his supplies in Dover and Kent : he doesn't bother anymore saying "these days I would know when I leave home for Dover but no idea when I will be back, it's a liability"

shop owner of two big shops near Brussels catering for (still) thousands of British expats : if you import one container with one product, the new red tape and paperwork is doable, but if you -like us- import a container with hundreds different products it is total chaos and not really practical

of course the wayniacs will argue it's small potatoes, and it can now be exported to Gambia and the likes, but it's like drip drip drip ... a load of small things make a big thing, so this decade's "shoot yourself in the foot"award goes to ....

 

[LeoV]

shop owner on the coast here would take ferry each week to get his supplies in Dover and Kent : he doesn't bother anymore saying "these days I would know when I leave home for Dover but no idea when I will be back, it's a liability"

shop owner of two big shops near Brussels catering for (still) thousands of British expats : if you import one container with one product, the new red tape and paperwork is doable, but if you -like us- import a container with hundreds different products it is total chaos and not really practical

Point one, not allowed without business visa I would think. And lot of paperwork declared beforehand.
Point two, the other way is easy, there are almost no checks on the UK side, wrong declarations are rife.
Mixed load truck says it is full of one product ( the cheapest). UK side is under order to not hinder traffic.
Except drugs, people smuggling etc that is still picked up.

 

[hump101]

Agree but wasn’t the Kingspan panels the original start of the fire wicking slowly over the fitted fire stops driven by the high winds on the day. If the outer panels hadn’t done this the Celotex behind it would have been perfectly safe and that is the debate at the moment where both the manufacturers are blaming each other for not conforming to the fire tests used in the original design.
What hasn’t been mentioned much was the hot dry wind that fuelled the original breakout from the flat and then dramatically fuelled the total destruction of the outer panels. 
I know one of the legal team actually working on the case, nothing much has been said in bar talk,  but I guess one of these days it will all be public knowledge and they will be able to tell the full story. At the moment it would seem “ it was all their fault “”

It is a real shame that the understandably emotive nature of this case seems, from the outside, to be inhibiting the lessons that could, and need, to be learnt to prevent another catastrophe. The manufacturers are being accused, probably because they are the ones with money to claim, but the limitations of their products are well understood and clearly stated, so their liability has to be limited to some extent. The designers are the ones who specified the construction arrangement and materials, and if it was not built to the design, then the builders would be in the firing line. However, the real issue seems to be that the way in which fires propagate and sustain in these high rise buildings is either not understood or has been ignored, as they are built like chimneys with inadequate horizontal breaks in the air flow paths within the cladding and elsewhere. This is arguably a regulatory issue, so not builder, designer, or manufacturer, and hence needs addressing rapidly to prevent more unsuitable designs being built. Similar issues occured on ships built prior to the 80's, but lessons were learned and designs have been improved.

It concerns me that the manufacturers will be forced to settle a claim through political pressure, and the fundamental problems will then be swept under the carpet until the next time. Fires do not scale well, and most regulatory requirements are based on small scale tests that are of arguable validity in tall structures.

 

[Laser1]

 

[LeoV]

Wait… is this the Government giving up on the whole UKCA mark thing? And EU manufacturers can then export with CE only. Nice. Predictable.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Wait… is this the Government giving up on the whole UKCA mark thing? And EU manufacturers can then export with CE only. Nice. Predictable.

Not sure why you would want to re-label anything if you have comparable standards, I guess only hard core Europhiles would consider that odd.

 

[LeoV]

Not sure why you would want to re-label anything if you have comparable standards, I guess only hard core Europhiles would consider that odd.

So all the work the Civil service did on behest of Brexiteers was just for fun ? A pity it did cost millions. Hard core Brexiteers demanded them, not the EU.

• Notified Bodies in the UK became "Approved Bodies". This means approvals from UK Approved Bodies are no longer recognised in the EU. No turning back now, CE approval in the EU even if you are UK based.

• UK regulations refer to "designated standards" to give a presumption of conformity to their essential requirements. As of 1 January 2021, the list of UK designated standards was identical to the list of EU harmonised standards. Since then, standards cited in the Official Journal (such as EN 81-20:2020, EN 81-50:2020, EN 81-72:2020, EN 81-73:2020) have been listed as designated standards. So there is divergence. For nothing.

• New conformity marking requirements (UKCA marking) were introduced to replace the CE-mark. CE-marked equipment may still be put onto the UK market until 31 December 2022. So it is a U turn (one of many to follow).

And rules are diverging, latest is new EU rules on agriculture, food and medicines. Headache for UK business.

 

[Albatros]

Not sure why you would want to re-label anything if you have comparable standards, I guess only hard core Europhiles would consider that odd.

errrr.... bigtime.... one of the prime wayniac reasons to leave the EU was "own rules, own standards".... and now it's like 'yeah but we have comparable standards so why bother ?? " REALLY?

you left, you abide by your petty standards so you abide with those standards you left too, no hanky-panky, deal with what you have brought onto yourself and quit blaming the others, it's your problem.

 

[Sea warrior]

An interesting discussion worth the 18 minute investment imho.

Probably not Wayne or Jamrag’s cupa tae though….

 

[LeoV]

And W is quiet every time the U-turn klaxon going off. BRINO.

For UK in the EU;
British in Europe closing down after 5 years: a very interesting article and interview with co-chair Jane Golding.
https://europestreet.news/british-in-europe-closing-down-after-5-years/
So young British citizens who move from the EU to study in the UK will have to pay international fees?

After seven years from the 1st of January 2021.

 

[Waynemarlow]

And W is quiet every time the U-turn klaxon going off. BRINO.

British in Europe closing down after 5 years: a very interesting article and interview with co-chair Jane Golding.
https://europestreet.news/british-in-europe-closing-down-after-5-years/
 

British in Europe seems to have come up against a bit of a problem

We are winding down because we couldn’t secure core funding. We did manage to raise some funds through donations and we were very grateful to our supporters and members for that. But in order to keep going and fund the work that people are doing in the way that we have been doing it, in such an intensive fashion and almost full time, we would really need a minimum of about 200,000 euros a year.

It would seem people ( unlike LeoV and James O'Brien on LBC ) have moved on and adapted to the new regime of EU and UK being seperate entities and are somewhat bored by the likes of LeoV's and other Remainers constant petty almost infantile sniping on even the smallest thing that may fit in with their PR fuelled addiction to Brexit.

Bit like myself who had expected and written many times that there will be at least 10 years of smoothing of the way we interact with the EU. Not all of it will be good, not all of it bad, but there will be almost certainly be the case where what ever happens, will not suit everyone.

 

[Sailabout]

What about the UK and Russia team up to take over the EU?
Putin does the leg work and controls the power supply, ( done) UK does the management with the help of the USA ( has done that before)
Just like to was years ago when the UK and Russia had to put Germany down and the rest of Europe were on their knees.

Perhaps brexit was the start of the long plan....

Back to my forecast, Trump, Boris, Putin in charge of the worlds biggest trade zone.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Germany, the last payee into the EU's coffers is neeling and bowing below decks to Putin so hard, the only thing left to do was send the Ukranians their 5000 unused above ground helmets.

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-export-5000-helmets-ukraine/

 

[Sailabout]

Germany, the last payee into the EU's coffers is neeling and bowing below decks to Putin so hard, the only thing left to do was send the Ukranians their 5000 unused above ground helmets.

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-export-5000-helmets-ukraine/

Does Germany even have any low carbon weapons?

 

[Waynemarlow]

Does Germany even have any low carbon weapons?

Sells them to Russia apparently

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/2022/02/02/germany-helps-putin-with-its-double-standard-on-arms-exports/

 

[LeoV]

Fuck you using this Ukraine crises for your anti EU bile.
German did not sold weapons to Russia, UK did.
Russia was also among the beneficiaries of UK arms sales – in the last decade, it received £44m of UK arms including ammunition, sniper rifle components and gun silencers, analysis shows.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Fuck you using this Ukraine crises for your anti EU bile.

So what are your constant " anti UK " rants then, bile ?

Have you got your hands out of your pockets yet in the Netherlands and got your wallets out for the EU begging bowl, which is going to come sooner or later ?

 

[Waynemarlow]

German did not sold weapons to Russia, UK did.

I wonder how much of the 9.35B of Germanies arms sales in 2021 alone were rebadged as made in another country and moved on to Russia ? Mind you Germany has a habit of rebadging gear with a Made in Germany stamp, I guess that would be a turn around.

Germany exported €9.35 billion worth of arms exports with explicit government approval in 2021, an an all-time record. Of those, €4.2 billion were weapons of war, something that the new government aims to change with new legislation that limits arms exports.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/defence-and-security/news/germany-continues-blocking-arms-exports-to-ukraine-due-to-new-foreign-peace-policy/

 

[Sea warrior]

Fuck you using this Ukraine crises for your anti EU bile.
German did not sold weapons to Russia, UK did.
Russia was also among the beneficiaries of UK arms sales – in the last decade, it received £44m of UK arms including ammunition, sniper rifle components and gun silencers, analysis shows.

Ironically, in my opinion, Putin has been emboldened by the fact that the UK and to a lesser extent the US are in political Cuckooland .

I’ve no doubt but that he sees the fragmentation in the west caused by the disastrous Brexit divorce as an opportunity.