Brexit WTF, WTF

LeoV

Super Anarchist
12,983
3,963
The Netherlands
Not much in there about Brexit LeoV, do bear in mind the factory was in trouble long before Brexit.
Oh dear.
Bosses blaming Brexit, the pandemic, and Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

And you missed that a healthy company moved into the Grimsby premises of a company in trouble. They really stated in the past Brexit would be a bonus for them. Not. Leveling down.
Exiting the UK market from a value-added perspective. Nice way to put it.
 
Oh dear.
Bosses blaming Brexit, the pandemic, and Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

And you missed that a healthy company moved into the Grimsby premises of a company in trouble. They really stated in the past Brexit would be a bonus for them. Not. Leveling down.
Exiting the UK market from a value-added perspective. Nice way to put it.
Small beer compared to Shells vote in confidence in the UK moving from the Netherlands consolidating back to the UK.

The Dutch government said it was "unpleasantly surprised" by the decision, as the country counts the cost of losing another Anglo-Dutch multinational to London after a similar move by consumer giant Unilever (ULVR.L) last year.

 
Small beer compared to Shells vote in confidence in the UK moving from the Netherlands consolidating back to the UK.

The Dutch government said it was "unpleasantly surprised" by the decision, as the country counts the cost of losing another Anglo-Dutch multinational to London after a similar move by consumer giant Unilever (ULVR.L) last year.

LeoV you missed another Boris clanger,

By the way how is the inflation figure in the Netherlands, its being reported here that its touching 17%, ouch.
 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,759
145
Hamble / Paris
Who would invest in scale manufacturing in the UK now with its supply chain problems from border frictions and its uncertain regulatory environment?

Another company bites the dust;
Landmark Grimsby seafood factory closing after losses of £8 million.

Icelandic owners.
The company chief executive said about Brexit: “We believe in the future and that we are well-positioned in our key markets with well-run value-added operations in Europe”

And now;
"But we must adjust to a different reality and are therefore exiting the UK market from a value-added perspective. This is a difficult decision, but I believe it is the right one. We are committed to our main stakeholders and maintain our commitment to run a profitable business within the European value-added seafood industry."

Nobody should invest in large scale manufacturing in Europe.

Supply chain between UK and EU works smoothly with the trade deal which was negotiated with exactly this in mind. CR manufacturing is particularly deeply integrated.

As for fish processing a lot of that now takes place in China. I think it's mad but fish caught in European waters and shipped to China for processing then shipped back.
 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,759
145
Hamble / Paris
I think the rational argument went out of the window when the repugnant blob in chief called the EU a Nazi super state and a few other unsavoury expletives, just sayin.

Do you have a link / video of him saying that? It's just I think it's very unlikely he called the EU a Nazi Super State.
 
To Laser1 anything sounds close enough, I think he was talking about Boris in a Telegraph interview

Speaking in an interview with the Sunday Telegraph, Johnson said the past 2,000 years of European history had been marked by doomed attempts to unify the continent and recreate the “golden age” of the Romans.

“Napoleon, Hitler, various people tried this out, and it ends tragically. The EU is an attempt to do this by different methods,” Johnson said.
 

LeoV

Super Anarchist
12,983
3,963
The Netherlands
Field Marshal Lord Bramall, a former head of the Army who took part in the D-Day landings, said Mr Johnson’s remarks were “simply laughable”.

“I know only too well, this comparison of the EU and Nazi Germany is absurd. Hitler’s main aim was to create an empire in the East and violently subjugate Europeans,” he said.
 

Mayor of A-Dock

All klanging halyards dealt kwik karma
30
19
Do you have a link / video of him saying that? It's just I think it's very unlikely he called the EU a Nazi Super State.

Quote is here:



88888888888888888888888888888888

BBC:

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson stands by Hitler EU comparison
Published 16 May 2016

Boris Johnson: "There's a very good argument against the lack of democracy in the EU"

Boris Johnson is standing by his comparison of the EU's aims to Hitler's, saying a row over the issue is an "artificial media twit storm".

The pro-Brexit Tory MP said both the Nazi leader and Napoleon had failed at unification and the EU was "an attempt to do this by different methods".

Shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn, who backs Remain, said the comparison was "offensive and desperate".

Tory Leave campaigner Jacob Rees Mogg said Mr Johnson's analysis was correct.

Speaking to the Sunday Telegraph, Mr Johnson said European history had seen repeated attempts to rediscover the "golden age of peace and prosperity under the Romans".

"Napoleon, Hitler, various people tried this out, and it ends tragically. The EU is an attempt to do this by different methods," he said.

"But fundamentally what is lacking is the eternal problem, which is that there is no underlying loyalty to the idea of Europe.

"There is no single authority that anybody respects or understands. That is causing this massive democratic void."

'Divisive politics'​

Rejecting Mr Johnson's analysis, Hilary Benn said: "Leave campaigners have lost the economic argument and now they are losing their moral compass.

"To try and compare Hitler and the Nazis - the millions of people who died in the Second World War, the Holocaust - with the free democracies of Europe coming together to trade and co-operate, and in the process to help to bring peace to the continent of Europe after centuries of war, is frankly deeply offensive."

Mr Johnson, who is one of the leading voices in the campaign to get Britain out of the EU, was asked about the criticism of his comments earlier on Monday.

He said there had been several attempts over thousands of years to "recreate the dream of the Roman Empire", and added: "Very often that's been done by force. The EU is different, it's trying to do it in a more bureaucratic way."
 
At +- 1% accuracy, that could have the OECD forecasts being 10's of Billions out, as historically they have been in the past.


Interesting to have Germany also being the only other G7 nation to be forecast that their economies will shrink, who is going to pay for the EU's growing bar bill ?
 
Hindsight Keir is just catching up what the rest of the country has been saying for the last 20 years. Must be a real "whats that you are saying "moment for the CBI that Keir has caught on and yet they still haven't a clue.

 

Flaming

Anarchist
615
223
UK
Hindsight Keir is just catching up what the rest of the country has been saying for the last 20 years.

It's a really complicated subject, immigration and the effect on growth. But I can tell you that right now it is extremely hard to find people to hire, even when you are recruiting entry level "school leaver" type jobs asking for zero experience or skills and are paying well over minimum wage.
We also offer apprenticeships. Despite advertising locally, online and through our local FE establishment (who will deliver the training) we didn't get a single applicant for this September's intake. Anecdotally we hear that school leavers would rather take a job at Tescos paying minimum wage than start a paid training scheme that will require further learning, but equip them with a skill and result in a higher wage in 4-5 years time.

Even the more senior position that we have recently filled, one that came with a well over market rate salary, bonus scheme and a car, we had a mere handful of viable candidates, and only 1 who actually turned up for interview - the others all crying off as they'd been offered other jobs in the meantime. Thankfully that 1 was very impressive...
We advertised the same role, for less money in real terms, in 2016, and I could have wallpapered Buckingham palace with the CVs I received....

I am, probably unsurprisingly, massively pro FOM. But not for my company - it makes no odds to us, we've never hired anyone who doesn't have a British passport. Not through any policy, we've never had anyone suitable apply. More for the opportunity it gave me to work in Europe in a previous life.
However I have a lot of sympathy for the view that for a lot of "low skill" businesses, FOM was a shortcut that allowed them to stop investing in training. But as usual, the wrong thing got the blame... The EU and FOM got the blame, when the real culprit was the Westminster government not taking action to improve training. Just for example in the decade after 2010 the budget for Adult education was cut by 15%.
It would have been quite possible to incentivise greater workforce training by use of the tax system, but it's much easier just to blame Brussels....
And as seen with our failure to recruit apprentices... The people have to want to undertake the training....
 
And as seen with our failure to recruit apprentices... The people have to want to undertake the training....
So how is FOM going to help that. This a generational and society problem and can only be changed if wages of the trades are pushed higher to represent the amount of skill and training your average engineering apprentice / tradesman undertakes.

Tony Blair pushed hard to get 50% of all school children University educated. What it gave us was my neighbour who is a multi millionare ( got a 2nd studying business management at Uni ) making his fortune from mobile phone advertising, complaining that his electrician ( who is a fully time served apprentice and has had to update himself constantly with new regulations and technology ) is charging him 300 notes a day. The fact is the said millionaire is totally unable to do any daily activity within his house until the said electrician finds the fault ( which was caused by of all things a newly installed Air Source Heat Pump overloading an elderly electrical system ), so much for all that education at Uni.

A question, do you offer your apprentices a starting wage higher than the local Tesco or telephone sales job ?
 

Flaming

Anarchist
615
223
UK
So how is FOM going to help that. This a generational and society problem and can only be changed if wages of the trades are pushed higher to represent the amount of skill and training your average engineering apprentice / tradesman undertakes.

Tony Blair pushed hard to get 50% of all school children University educated. What it gave us was my neighbour who is a multi millionare ( got a 2nd studying business management at Uni ) making his fortune from mobile phone advertising, complaining that his electrician ( who is a fully time served apprentice and has had to update himself constantly with new regulations and technology ) is charging him 300 notes a day. The fact is the said millionaire is totally unable to do any daily activity within his house until the said electrician finds the fault ( which was caused by of all things a newly installed Air Source Heat Pump overloading an elderly electrical system ), so much for all that education at Uni.

A question, do you offer your apprentices a starting wage higher than the local Tesco or telephone sales job ?
That's literally my point. FOM was decried as the issue, letting in people who were "TAKING YOUR JOBS!" when the reality is that the supply of labour into the country was not the issue holding back wages, but precisely the sort of devaluation of the trades that you describe, coupled with a lack of investment into productivity. Which had sweet FA to do with EU membership, yet leave presented the end of FOM as the thing that would bring about the change. Which it hasn't... All its done is reduce the number of people available for UK businesses.

And yes. We offer the same basic wage, plus our bonus scheme. So I believe (though I confess that I don't know for 100% definite) that our apprentice earns more than the Tesco worker. And stated wage increases based on modules passed etc. And of course no need to work evenings or weekends. Or Fridays now, since we've gone to a 4 day week... (Same pay before you ask) It's the need to train and pass courses that seems to be the issue with potential applicants. We went to a job fayre run by the local school. Plenty of youngsters were interested until they found out there was further study. All those who were up for further study after school were off to uni. Those who were left were interested in a job, not a career.
 

Tcatman

Super Anarchist
1,505
138
Chesapeake Bay
US mainstream media point of view on brexit Brit productivity falling with much pain in the future. this article supports flamings experience with productivity and hiring for his apprentices.


None of the WPs commentors support Brexit or its implementation....
I can't find a yank version of wayne or jambo on this side of the pond....
 
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At +- 1% accuracy, that could have the OECD forecasts being 10's of Billions out, as historically they have been in the past.


Interesting to have Germany also being the only other G7 nation to be forecast that their economies will shrink, who is going to pay for the EU's growing bar bill ?
I see that you are always very interested in problems of Germany.
In that regard you sound like many (older) german people.
They really love to speculate about the next big massive crisis.
There is no hope at all...

And then things mostly go along in their normal boring way...
It´s disgusting...;-)

Let us stay with the facts:
One country left a big group of many other countries.
I hope we can agree that the leaving country is more affected than the group.

I know that story about the UK being as strong as 19 small countries of the EU.
The german media brought the same story.
Now look at the list here:
List of countries

That means you compare yourself to a conglomerate of countries like Cyprus. Or Liechtenstein. Or North Macedonia.
Three of those countries (Baltic states) were not even independent until the early 90s.
Is that what you want to compare the UK with?

What if I say France and Bulgaria have a bigger combined GDP than UK.
You know - Bulgaria is even behind Luxembourg.
Or if I say Italy and Spain have a bigger combined GDP?
Does not sound really impressive any more?

We both know, that UK was a big player in the EU and of course it would have been better also for the EU if you had stayed. No question about that.
But you live in a big illusion if you think that the EU will suffer for this more than UK.

As for who is paying: I think if you look at the list above you will see that the german GDP dwarfs the GDP of UK.
I think we can probably afford a lot more than the UK.
Do not worry, we will be okay.

To give you an example:
Your ex-prime minister Liz Truss anounced, she wants to massively lower the taxes.
The markets went into chaos mode.

Germany announces that we will have a big supporting programm (200 billion(?) €).
And the other european countries complain that Germany is too strong.
You see the difference? ;-)

Holger
 
Guten abend ... thanks for the post

I honestly never heard a single person say they voted for Brexit for lower taxes. I never heard any vote Leave messaging on taxes. I don't think Brexit will make much difference to personal or business taxes. It should lead to lower VAT and removing VAT from various things. We are already well placed in that we don't have VAT on food like much of EU. The EU loves VAT as they get a share oaid to Brussels. During out membership they tried more than once to "harmonise" VAT, ie get us to charge it on more things like food, children's shoes and clothes etc

As for the single market as I have said before this is far less important to UK than other member states. UK did less trade inside the EU than outside (only Malta does this) and as a services dominant economy the SM never really worked for us

It is also worth noting that without the UK the SM is much diminished. The UK was equal to the 19 smallest EU countries combined.

It makes sense for UK companies with substantial EU business to have a booking/distribution office there. That way you do one bulk import with one set of paperwork. Customers then deal locally. All straightforward and standard practice around the world

London and UK are still a huge draw for European citizens. I haven't seen that change much.

UK is still one of the very most liberal countries in Europe. For example far less racist than France, Spain or Italy. We continue to attract more tech investment than entire EU. Our Universities are truly world class, in this regard Europe is almost nowhere.
Sorry, that was a misunderstanding.
And of course my fault - english is not my mothertongue. Sorry.

I did not mean that people in the UK voted for Brexit to have less tax.
There were several reports in the german media that showed a lot of money poured into the Brexit campaign by rich company owners because they thought there was a chance for a low tax scenario after Brexit.

If my memory is right they stopped that when it was clear that there was no chance for that.
Great to hear you have no VAT on food.
I remember the prices for food were still much higher when we were in London but that was probably because it was London (?).
And the prices for food are comparably low in Germany.

Concerning the 19 smallest countries: please read above.
What you write means the SM ist still at 81%.

Concerning UK business in EU: The british company we own has no hub here in the EU.
I will ask my colleague for details when I meet him.
It is an interesting question (at least for me...).

I also think that London and UK will still be a big draw.
I also heard that the financial centre of London did not suffer as much as expected.
Good for you.

I really do not know how big a factor the universities are.
I am not competent enough.
Do the students stay in UK after their studies?
And I also do not know anything about tech investments.

Only one remark: The universities of the GDR (East Germany) were known to be really good.
I still have good books about math and engineering.
You know what happened to the GDR? They went bancrupt...;-)

I am joking of course.

I want to tell you one thing:
I am in the camp that believes in a good neighborhood.
You can have the nicest house but it matters nothing when you are in a bad neighborhood.
That is why I think it is better when UK is not going aground.
And as I said: I like the british people.

Sorry for the many words.

Holger
 
As for who is paying: I think if you look at the list above you will see that the german GDP dwarfs the GDP of UK.
I think we can probably afford a lot more than the UK.
Do not worry, we will be okay.
Correct but you are the EU’s problem, by having an artificially under valued currency with the Euro, you have become extremely wealthy on the back of almost all the other 26. Yes you can afford it because you have huge reserves, the others can’t because they don’t have the reserves.

Germany will have to almost entirely pay the EU’s bar bill over the next decade. With a declining world market which China and India will eventually dominate, how are you going to be able to do that without the whole Euro Ponzi scheme failing ? Should Germany as in any true Ponzi scheme, simply pull out of the EU whilst they are wealthy and on top ?
 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,759
145
Hamble / Paris
US mainstream media point of view on brexit Brit productivity falling with much pain in the future. this article supports flamings experience with productivity and hiring for his apprentices.


None of the WPs commentors support Brexit or its implementation....
I can't find a yank version of wayne or jambo on this side of the pond....

Washington Post owned by the King of Woke Mr Gazillionaire himself Jeff "Victorian Working Practices" Bezos

Listen the EU really works for Amazon. Firstly they have the special tax deals done by Jean-Claude Junker himself ... billions in profits and pennies paid in taxes. Then of course there is freedom of movement allowing Amazon to pay poverty wages to employees who work 12 hour shifts and hot bunk in shared accommodation

Lastly I think most people in US don't care about Brexit or indeed the EU in general, all except the Democrats who think it is something to attack Trump about.
 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,759
145
Hamble / Paris
Sorry, that was a misunderstanding.
And of course my fault - english is not my mothertongue. Sorry.

I did not mean that people in the UK voted for Brexit to have less tax.
There were several reports in the german media that showed a lot of money poured into the Brexit campaign by rich company owners because they thought there was a chance for a low tax scenario after Brexit.

If my memory is right they stopped that when it was clear that there was no chance for that.
Great to hear you have no VAT on food.
I remember the prices for food were still much higher when we were in London but that was probably because it was London (?).
And the prices for food are comparably low in Germany.

Concerning the 19 smallest countries: please read above.
What you write means the SM ist still at 81%.

Concerning UK business in EU: The british company we own has no hub here in the EU.
I will ask my colleague for details when I meet him.
It is an interesting question (at least for me...).

I also think that London and UK will still be a big draw.
I also heard that the financial centre of London did not suffer as much as expected.
Good for you.

I really do not know how big a factor the universities are.
I am not competent enough.
Do the students stay in UK after their studies?
And I also do not know anything about tech investments.

Only one remark: The universities of the GDR (East Germany) were known to be really good.
I still have good books about math and engineering.
You know what happened to the GDR? They went bancrupt...;-)

I am joking of course.

I want to tell you one thing:
I am in the camp that believes in a good neighborhood.
You can have the nicest house but it matters nothing when you are in a bad neighborhood.
That is why I think it is better when UK is not going aground.
And as I said: I like the british people.

Sorry for the many words.

Holger

The vast majority of big business supported Remain including making big donations. This is because EU bureaucracy really suits them as the high costs of compliance keeps competitors out. Also freedom of movement is great for big business keeping wages low

No need to apologise by the way.
 

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