LeoV
Super Anarchist
What absolute shit. The idea that Brexit has some sort of sacred independent existence which has been corrupted is pure bollocks. It’s a Tory policy, and that’s it. And Tory policies are shit, so what ?
Brexit WTF, WTF
- Thread starter Fiji Bitter
- Start date
In the short term some people may see greater demand for their skills, and thus be able to command higher wages, but in the long term if investment is not forthcoming then the amount of work around will also reduce. When you're talking construction (which I think you were?) then if nobody's building then nobody's earning. And investment into the UK is significantly down since Brexit.
You should remember the following Wayne. The margin of the leave victory was small. It is clear that the number of real ideologists was not enough to win, and support was required from large numbers of people that leave convinced would be better off.
If you aren't able to show to those people that you were right, and that they are better off compared to if we had not left, then their support will disappear. In addition, given the demographics, simply to stand at the same level of support as 2016 you need to continuously convert younger remain voters into thinking that brexit has actually gone ok. All the evidence suggests that this is not happening, that the younger generations are not changing their mind.
As I said to Jambo, the reality is that as soon as rejoining is seen as a vote winner, not a vote loser, then the big parties will pivot that way.
In order for rejoining not to be a vote winner, Brexit has to not be shit. Which is a very difficult ask, since it's not being judged by the public in your terms, the terms of "freedom" etc. It's being judged against the brexit that was promised in order to persuade them to vote for it. The brexit that poured money into the NHS, that kept all our nice trade with the EU with no new barriers, that definitely didn't result in the uk car industry imploding, etc etc....
And that Brexit was never possible, was always a lie. But that's what the people who actually swung the vote are judging the new reality against.
You may say "Oh, I always said it would take years". Even if it wasn't bollocks, it's still irrelevant. You don't have years to prove that it's a good idea. Unless the country improves fast the next labour government will start talking about "aligning rules to reduce barriers" and it's a very small step from there to "well, we might as well join to be able to have a say in the rules".
You should remember the following Wayne. The margin of the leave victory was small. It is clear that the number of real ideologists was not enough to win, and support was required from large numbers of people that leave convinced would be better off.
If you aren't able to show to those people that you were right, and that they are better off compared to if we had not left, then their support will disappear. In addition, given the demographics, simply to stand at the same level of support as 2016 you need to continuously convert younger remain voters into thinking that brexit has actually gone ok. All the evidence suggests that this is not happening, that the younger generations are not changing their mind.
As I said to Jambo, the reality is that as soon as rejoining is seen as a vote winner, not a vote loser, then the big parties will pivot that way.
In order for rejoining not to be a vote winner, Brexit has to not be shit. Which is a very difficult ask, since it's not being judged by the public in your terms, the terms of "freedom" etc. It's being judged against the brexit that was promised in order to persuade them to vote for it. The brexit that poured money into the NHS, that kept all our nice trade with the EU with no new barriers, that definitely didn't result in the uk car industry imploding, etc etc....
And that Brexit was never possible, was always a lie. But that's what the people who actually swung the vote are judging the new reality against.
You may say "Oh, I always said it would take years". Even if it wasn't bollocks, it's still irrelevant. You don't have years to prove that it's a good idea. Unless the country improves fast the next labour government will start talking about "aligning rules to reduce barriers" and it's a very small step from there to "well, we might as well join to be able to have a say in the rules".
Laser1
Super Anarchist
The myth is already unravelling in the levelling up farce. Remember this was going to match EU funding to pound for pound if not exceed that.
Now regions, cities & villages all accross the UK have to compete for funding, a fraction of the EU pot btw, and recently there have been a lot of unhappy punters nation wide.
Tcatman
Super Anarchist
IMO, the way its coming across to those of us interested in brexit is summed up by David Frum in the Atlantic. Freedom to do the Brit thing... comes at a cost in your standard of living. That was always going to be the case and the marketing politics obscured that basic fact. There is no space for patience in politics.... Trump tax cuts were supposed to drive the economy to long term growth much greater then the 2 percent a year... The public did not see it. before covid.. in the economy. and certainly can't ID where the tax cuts are doing something now. Political failure. Today... its the biden infrastructure bills that are starting tunnels and bridges being rebuilt. Political success. So... similar reasoning... Brexit is a political fail and it sucks to be in the UK
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
Which might be nice, except so far it's given me freedom to do not one fucking thing and taken away my freedom to move around Europe with ease.
Actually, anyway, nobody voted to be freer and poorer. Amazingly enough, the sizzle that was sold didn't include that particular proposition.
Tcatman
Super Anarchist
Well freedom is priceless.....language is important! sorry the voters thought that priceless meant free. critical thinking skills are not widespread either side of the Atlantic... US Libertarians are forever selling the free lunch that comes with their definition of freedom!
AnIdiot
Sock
What simple implementation solves the Northern Ireland border problem, exactly?
(..and by "solves" I mean avoids any significant risk of a return to violence)
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
Oh come on Jack, even you would have to admit that for all but a few die hards, NI would be far better off as part of Ireland and we in England would be very happy if they were.
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
And you sum up the short term thinkers that have gotten us into the present financial woes on both sides of the channel. As long as we have the Flamings wittering about the dooms of everything that doesn’t fatten their pocket in the next few hours, then even if we do return back into the EU, as soon as it’s seen as a bad move ( after all the EU would have the same problem of being seen to raise the standard of living in just a few months ) then we are back into the leave cycle again.
All you're saying is that Brexit was a huge mistake it will be hard to recover from.
You can't just wish away the current population or political structure. Only in fantasy Brexit campaign fantasyland can a nation be run without any political constraints.
You just keep reconfirming that Brexit was a mistake in context of the British populace and political institutions. "Flamings wittering about the dooms of everything" existed long before Brexit, you were just too stupid to notice or understand what it meant.
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
So the British population had been wrong then in originally joining the EEC ? I would suggest you stick to politics in Alaska as it would seem you know ferk all about Brexit.
AnIdiot
Sock
So you think a vote for Brexit was a vote for Irish Reunification. Hmm, that wasn't on the bus.
..and you think that would be achieved without violence.
Obviously, May must have agreed that with the DUP when she got their support for her post-poll government.
Nah. You're just trolling, now...
Would you vote for this again? Time travel back to 2016 and stop yourself outside the polling station.
What would you tell your 2016 self to do?
Let's have a straight answer to a straight question.
Lol I said nothing of the sort. That seems like a fine choice given the circumstances at the time.
The issue is they made a stupid choice in 2016, and rather than recognize that their choice isn't going to work out too well, you prefer to go on about how it all could have worked out if only the population was replaced with some other population, or if various well entrenched institutions were replaced it would all be sunshine and roses.
Your posting is the equivalent of someone that got drunk and drove his boat up onto the beach, then spent the next 5 years ranting in the bar about the uncharted rock you hit, and how you no longer have a boat because some cartographers weren't doing their job.
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
Still the same 52/48 to leave, but with the Covid pandemic and now Russian / Ukrainian war showing real flaws in the stability financially of the EU I would now say 90/ 10 to leave.
Sadly every person I meet that has any views on Ireland all say the same, it’s time the threats of violence are just treated as criminal acts and Ireland become united again.
Sadly every person I meet that has any views on Ireland all say the same, it’s time the threats of violence are just treated as criminal acts and Ireland become united again.
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
Purely a personal opinion of course, said from afar and without any actual on the ground information. Sort of what drunks do, opine opinions that have little fact.
Last edited:
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
And where is the EU going to get those funds to distribute, France is a financial basket case, Germany the financial backer ( without the Euro the mark would be incredibly over valued ) is starting to have to dig deep into its nest egg, leaving the Netherlands as the only financially able country to dig deep into its pockets.
Sorry Laser1 but your myth of EU funding is just that myth now that we are in 2023 post Covid and the current war. By the way who is going to pay for the talked about Euro army to defend from Putins ambitions, at some stage the US has to back out of a very costly backing of Ukraine and ask the likes of Germany to man up or become part of Russia.
AnIdiot
Sock
Is that supposed to be a straight answer to the question I put to you?
..and obviously their views override the preferences of those who live there: "Let's make sure we concentrate power in Westminster where it belongs instead of out in the provinces where they don't know what to do with it or with those furriners in Brussels."
"just treated as criminal acts" in the only part of the UK where the police routinely carry guns? Yeah, that's a simple solution. Clear, simple and wrong.
You really should stop trying to pretend you understand this stuff, Wayne.
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
So why should I care about NI, it matters little to me other than having to pay an unfair proportion of my taxes to the good citizens of NI to look back at history to blame their travails on.
From where I sit let’s look at 2023 and where would the best direction forward be for NI. Surely has to be a referendum on integration and if that means the DUP has to eat humble pie then so be it. If not then let’s kick the threat of violence into the courts and let NI become truly a part of the U.K.
By the way with your verdant NI support doesn’t it remind you of the emotional Jack Sparrow, oh actually you are Jack Sparrow.
AnIdiot
Sock
Because it's part of the country you live in, your vote affects the people who live there. Oh, and because that part of the UK has a recent history of violent civil unrest.
There's no mandate for that in the UK. It's a non-answer. You can't wish away the problem.
Troll.By the way with your verdant NI support doesn’t it remind you of the emotional Jack Sparrow, oh actually you are Jack Sparrow.
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
I’m not wishing away the problem at all, it’s 2023 and some 25 years since the IRA decided to put down its weapons and go legit. Just maybe the NI population may have got used to peace and as much as you want the violence to reignite, you may want to consider that Sinn Fein won a majority of seats at the last election. By the way let’s hear when you last resided in NI to be able ascertain what exactly is going on or are your views entirely based on hear say from where is it Australia ?
So having given NI so much TLC and money over the last 25 years can the English possibly be permitted to ask are they in or out of the U.K. At the referendum they overwhelmingly voted out so why not solve so many of the Brexit problems by holding a referendum and finding out once and for all time ?
Last edited:
