Brexit WTF, WTF

[Flaming]

Seems business just ignores the political headlines and just does what it does best, trade. Note the totals for both the EU and UK are higher than in 2016
View attachment 574925

Hey Jack / AnIdiot, looks like your hero Nanny Nichola has bitten her own dust.

Not this crap again.

It has been explained a hundred times that this is

a: not adjusted for inflation (which of course has been high)
b: is largely driven by trade in fossil fuels which are (hopefully) temporary in nature due to Putin.

Actual trade volumes are down. A lot.

 

[Waynemarlow]

a: not adjusted for inflation (which of course has been high)
b: is largely driven by trade in fossil fuels which are (hopefully) temporary in nature due to Putin.

Hasn't that always been the case and haven't we always counted the cost of energy being transferred across the channel. Just because its now going the other way, can't we count that in ?

Flaming, my views have been very clear that out first post the post system is not a good system which I think you agree. So lets get the one clear result that there can be no doubt, what was it 52 / 48, should we ignore that as well ?

 

[cms]

Seems that Nicola Sturgeon is about to resign. More news coming soon.

 

[Flaming]

Hasn't that always been the case and haven't we always counted the cost of energy being transferred across the channel. Just because its now going the other way, can't we count that in ?

Flaming, my views have been very clear that out first post the post system is not a good system which I think you agree. So lets get the one clear result that there can be no doubt, what was it 52 / 48, should we ignore that as well ?

The point is that it has massively increased in volume and is the result of LNG being shipped in, processed and then piped across the channel. Sure it's good business but it's disguising the impact of Brexit on general trade in goods. And when it stops you'll see a very big slump. My own EU business is much reduced at the moment. There are a lot of factors in this, but Brexit, and the comparative complexity of buying UK rather than EU goods is quite clearly a major one. In short we're still getting most of our share of the large orders, but the smaller "top up" orders that are short notice and urgent we aren't getting. And they add up...

We clearly cannot ignore 52/48. And clearly haven't since we have left the EU.

However it is definitely not democratic to refuse to allow people to change their mind. What we're now discussing is basically the mechanism in which that mind changing (or confirming the previous decision) is recognised.
Remember that in 2019 the Brexit supporters ran scared of a confirmatory referendum and instead opted for a general election. Which they then claimed as a massive mandate for their hard brexit despite more people voting for anti brexit, or second vote, parties than voted for "get brexit done".
It would be hypocritical in the extreme if those same Brexit supporters did not accept that a general election that left Starmer as PM with a mandate to "fix Tory Brexit" by removing trade barriers (and by definition aligning more with the EU) was legitimate.

Where we go after that is of course for the public to shape, first by way of polling that steers policy in the main parties, and then by voting for those policies, or not....

 

[Waynemarlow]

However it is definitely not democratic to refuse to allow people to change their mind. What we're now discussing is basically the mechanism in which that mind changing (or confirming the previous decision) is recognised.

Oh come on, you could say that about any GE or even local council elections, in your case I would suggest that as it hasn't worked out for you, then its not democratic.

 

[Flaming]

Oh come on, you could say that about any GE or even local council elections,

Yes, that's exactly it. Whether it's a GE, or a local council election, or the election of the golf club committee There's another one in a few years time and the voters can either confirm their choice or vote to change their mind. That is literally what democracy is.

Actually rejoining the EU would almost certainly require another referendum, and literally nobody likely to get anywhere near power is currently suggesting that.
What is currently being suggested is mitigating the damage that has been done by aligning more closely with the EU on matters of trade and security co-operation.
If, and it is still a big if, that is in the manifesto of the party that wins the next general election, how is that undemocratic? Explain please.

And more widely, you seem to utterly misunderstand the nature of representative democracy. We elect people to represent us and make decisions for us. They tell us what they plan to do, but are quite at liberty to take different decisions if circumstances dictate. Then at the following election we can either endorse those decisions or kick them out of power. If we elect a Labour government, then that government is quite entitled to look at the situation it finds itself in, and say "do you know what, we'd be better off adopting this policy". Or joining this trade body. Or this defence partnership.
After all was joining with the US and Australia in a defence partnership in the 2019 Tory manifesto? No, but it happened...

 

[LeoV]

Try to find the source of that graph, and read the graph headline. It is not clear it is about UK imports and exports to the EU. Statista is a paid service, so you can not look up how they made that graph. This is take somewhere from the internet without context, even the headline is so weird.

Here more info, but some in %, some in money but inflation corrected with 2019 as base, we know what happened after that date.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7851/

So funny, one reason to Brexit was that trade with the EU was declining, and now they argue that trade is up... weird guys those Brexiteers.

 

[huey 2]

 

[Waynemarlow]

And more widely, you seem to utterly misunderstand the nature of representative democracy. We elect people to represent us and make decisions for us. They tell us what they plan to do, but are quite at liberty to take different decisions if circumstances dictate. Then at the following election we can either endorse those decisions or kick them out of power. If we elect a Labour government, then that government is quite entitled to look at the situation it finds itself in, and say "do you know what, we'd be better off adopting this policy".

If you spent as much time on your business as you do writing on this thread, you would be a much more wealthy and worldly individual. That bit of prose cost you an hour of your time for what, it certainly is not news here.

 

[Flaming]

An hour? Writing that would take you an hour?

Clearly I type a lot faster than you… My coffee didn’t even get cold.

 

[Laser1]

Nice find @huey 2 of course (some) people in power know what is going on. Regretfully it is also (some) people in power that have (or are still) benefited from this train-crash or think they have a (perceived) political future that perpetuate the lies.

Writing this while he is waiting for a shipment of rubber fendering from Rotterdam to be delivered that is sitting in a trailer in Immingham with threats from the clearing agent that if the process takes too long the consignment will be offloaded and all transshipment,storage and admin cost will be for the account of the undersigned.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Seems that Nicola Sturgeon is about to resign. More news coming soon.

 

[mad]

 

[Jambalaya]

No, we don't. You're making things up again. Deceitful.

That's comedy gold mate. The UK media is unashamedly biased against Brexit. We all know it.

 

[Jambalaya]

What’s abundantly clear is that Brexiters expected the EU either to fall apart upon Brexit or cave in to British cakeism.

Mugged by reality. So they keep thrashing the EU and talking up the UK. It's the only thing they have left.

We have our democracy back thanks very much. We won. We left. We will never rejoin. We are already diverging legally and that will only accelerate.

You have nothing and all those in the euro are permanently trapped. You could not leave even if you wanted to.

 

[AnIdiot]

That's comedy gold mate. The UK media is unashamedly biased against Brexit. We all know it.

They may be unashamedly against it... but that's not bias, it's honest, accurate reporting.

 

[Jambalaya]

Sturgeon's resignation speech was something else. Her tenure marked by one failure after another NHS, Police, Schools, Ferries, Drugs and even Independence now much less popular due her ludicrous "self identification" gaff opposed by 80% of Scots. All this and she claims she's a winner. A woman in total denial. She could have a future in Brussels, she's certainly deluded enough

 

[Flaming]

That's comedy gold mate. The UK media is unashamedly biased against Brexit. We all know it.

Laughable nonsense. They’ve only just started asking if maybe it isn’t going all that well…

 

[Flaming]

We have our democracy back thanks very much. We won. We left. We will never rejoin. We are already diverging legally and that will only accelerate.

You have nothing and all those in the euro are permanently trapped. You could not leave even if you wanted to.

We’ll be realigning pretty shortly into the next parliament. Rejoining in 10 years or so I should think.

Remember, just to keep the same level of support you have now you need to convince younger voters that it’s working.

How’s that going?

 

[AnIdiot]

Sturgeon's resignation speech was something else. Her tenure marked by one failure after another NHS, Police, Schools, Ferries, Drugs and even Independence now much less popular due her ludicrous "self identification" gaff opposed by 80% of Scots. All this and she claims she's a winner. A woman in total denial. She could have a future in Brussels, she's certainly deluded enough

Interesting take: I'm not sure how you could better have demonstrated how out-of-touch you are with UK politics, short of predicting a landslide win for Count BinFace at a GE in 2023.