Brexit WTF, WTF

[Albatros]

funni to see some of the results of this King's College survey : they surveyed worldwide about the trust of citizens ihe institutions.
question : do you trust your parliament ? 22% of Britanistanis trust their parliament, 78% not
question : do you trust the EU ? 39% of Britanistanis trust the EU, the rest not
but still funni to see that more britanistanis trust EU than their own parliament, eat that Wayniacs, grin, apparently the britanistani's trust in their rulers is on same level as the Greek, and that's really bottom fishing.

on the other hand, to give the Wayniacs a lifeline for some spin : top ranking are the Chinese, over 90% trust their rulers, go figure.

 

[Waynemarlow]

on the other hand, to give the Wayniacs a lifeline for some spin : top ranking are the Chinese, over 90% trust their rulers, go figure.

Yep you wrote it and yet still bothered to spend your time telling us how wonderful us Brits think of the EU.

Interesting times ahead if indeed we do agree terms with the CPTPP as some papers are reporting. The U.K. and CPTPP combined is larger than the EU.
““Leaving the customs union allows the UK to reposition itself in the changing global economy.” The CPTPP, which was formed in 2018, covers 11 countries: Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam. Members account for 13pc of per cent of world economic output and 15pc of global trade.”

With America looking in at joining that huge middle class pool of new consumers, business can only grow larger unlike the EU.

But for all you Remainers hopeful of rejoining the EU, sorry but the CPTPP have no love of the EU and it will be goodbye rejoining the EU if we do indeed join.

 

[LeoV]

it will be goodbye rejoining the EU if we do indeed join.

Brexiteer lies;
6 months notice and you can leave CPTTP. Without negotiation or discussion needed.
Joining CPTPP entails significantly less trade integration than membership of the European Union.

That is one of the reasons joining is less of a boon to UK GDP than EU Membership.
It is also why joining it entails a significantly smaller loss of "policy space"/sovereignty.

In general, CPTPP collectively covering 7.45% of total would be the UK's 3rd largest trade partner, just larger than China, but some way short of US and Germany.
(By contrast, EU is 43.42% of total trade, and wider Europe 7.82%)

 

[Jambalaya]

@LeoV we will never rejoin the EU. CCTP membership or not. @Waynemarlow point is valid, joining the CCTP will cast further shade on the EU making it increasingly unattractive even to most remainers

The UK joining the CCTP is expected to be announced next week following all the good work done by Boris and Truss. The CCTP is a proper trading block. It respects national legislation and importantly it has important benefits around services and e-commerce far superior to that on offer from EU membership. Plus of course there are no huge budget contributions, no parliament, no commissioners, no flag and no anthem.

Joining CPTPP shows Britain is finally seizing the benefits of Brexit

It is expected that the UK’s accession into the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership will be formally announced tomorrow.

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[MiddayGun]

@LeoV we will never rejoin the EU. CCTP membership or not. @Waynemarlow point is valid, joining the CCTP will cast further shade on the EU making it increasingly unattractive even to most remainers

Never say never.
At one point leaving the EU seemed extremely unlikely.

Who knows what the political landscape will be like in 20/30 years time.

 

[LeoV]

- the government predicts joining CPTPP could boost GDP by 0.08% in a decade.
Still better then nothing.

You can tear up CPTTP membership in a jiffy, so not a obstacle for EU membership.

I do not think the EU will want the UK back in a long time. Trust gone.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Never say never.
At one point leaving the EU seemed extremely unlikely.

Who knows what the political landscape will be like in 20/30 years time.

I totally agree, who would have predicted in 2016 that after 30 years of campaigning by many, that the U.K. would vote leave.

Nor in 2016 would we have predicted that a Remain biased parliament would not honour their words if Leave won, that the world would be locked down in a Pandemic, Russia would invade another European country creating a cost of living crisis and that every crisis in the U.K. seems to be blamed on Brexit some 7 years later by Flaming.

 

[Jambalaya]

 

[Jambalaya]

Never say never.
At one point leaving the EU seemed extremely unlikely.

Who knows what the political landscape will be like in 20/30 years time.

I do hear you re "never say never" however rejoining EU will require taking the euro and trillions of joint liability EU debt (€750 billion already, EU never wastes a crises so used Covid to sneak in this new joint liability debt) and who knows how far EU will have gone towards the superstate project in even 10 years never mind 20 years.

We have already seen significant benefits from leaving and those are going to grow. The EU is far from resolving the addiction to debt and over spending of the euro block (Maastricht debt/gdp target is 60% even France is double that never mind Italy etc)

 

[RobbieW]

...We have already seen significant benefits from leaving and those are going to grow...

For those of us who are clearly hard of thinking, would you like to outline half a dozen ? How they make the average Brit better off for example

 

[Laser1]

and that every crisis in the U.K. seems to be blamed on Brexit some 7 years later by Flaming.

No it is the gaslighting by the likes of Gove and the rest of this disfunctional guvernment behaving like brexshit never happened nor has any impact on today's events.

 

[LeoV]

You only know what you miss if you lose it...

‘Mutual free movement’ for UK and EU citizens supported by 84% of Brits, in stunning new poll

Omnisis poll reveals overwhelming support for mutual free movement

yorkshirebylines.co.uk

Strong preferences are stable across age, gender, party affiliation, regions and education level and even among Leave voters (66% yes vs 20% no).

 

[Jambalaya]

- the government predicts joining CPTPP could boost GDP by 0.08% in a decade.
Still better then nothing.

You can tear up CPTTP membership in a jiffy, so not a obstacle for EU membership.

I do not think the EU will want the UK back in a long time. Trust gone.

You make a very good point here although not the one you think.

Even the most pro EU Remainiac models said a no deal Brexit with the UK not signing a single trade deal with anyone ever would cost UK -0.2% GDP per year

CCTP is worth +0.1% pa

These numbers are tiny and far less important than say technological developments.

Conclusion trade deals, including EU membership are that not significant in terms of shaping a nations economic future. For thr UK the economic benefits (if any) of being a member were never worth the cost of sovereignty

 

[AnIdiot]

... were never worth the cost of sovereignty

Can you clarify what you mean by this? What exactly is the cost of sovereignty? What did we lose by being part if the EU that we have regained by leaving?

Serious question. People talked about this quite a lot around 2016 and since but I simply do not see what we lost or have gained (except, perhaps, the opportunity for big companies to exploit the vulnerable? Is that what you mean?).

European courts? Why is it "better" for decisions to be made in Westminster (for example) than Brussels, or Antwerp or wherever? Why is it "better" that employment law or tax decisions are made in London rather than Cardiff? York? Edinburgh? Brussels? Frankfurt?

Thanks.

 

[LeoV]

Even the most pro EU Remainiac models said a no deal Brexit with the UK not signing a single trade deal with anyone ever would cost UK -0.2% GDP per year

4% in ten years was the prediction with TCA, now 2 years in and economists are suprised how fast the UK is reaching this 4%.
Single market access is totally different then a trade deal.

 

[MiddayGun]

I totally agree, who would have predicted in 2016 that after 30 years of campaigning by many, that the U.K. would vote leave.

Nor in 2016 would we have predicted that a Remain biased parliament would not honour their words if Leave won, that the world would be locked down in a Pandemic, Russia would invade another European country creating a cost of living crisis and that every crisis in the U.K. seems to be blamed on Brexit some 7 years later by Flaming.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic about the first part or not, but people spend their lives campaigning for stuff that never happens.
At the end of the day, whichever way you dice it, Brexit won, but you can hardly call it a landslide, of people who voted, it was very much almost 50-50.

So its not a stretch to say that say that in the future there would be a clear majority to remain, heck, even Brexit becomes a roaring success it could swing the other way, I don't think that's likely, but it could happen.

I do hear you re "never say never" however rejoining EU will require taking the euro and trillions of joint liability EU debt (€750 billion already, EU never wastes a crises so used Covid to sneak in this new joint liability debt) and who knows how far EU will have gone towards the superstate project in even 10 years never mind 20 years.

We have already seen significant benefits from leaving and those are going to grow. The EU is far from resolving the addiction to debt and over spending of the euro block (Maastricht debt/gdp target is 60% even France is double that never mind Italy etc)

Well I certainly don't think it would be any time soon, these things need time for the heat to go out of them, new politicians, new generation etc.

But I really would dispute the second paragraph, I would argue that the average person has only had negatives so far, I mean even from a sailing point of view, its fucked us over in terms of buying & selling our boats in Europe, and spending any length of time there, accepting of course that we are a minority of the UK population. But as a worker I have less places I can go, as a traveler or holiday maker I have less time I can spend in the EU (which just happens to be almost every country remotely near to us), its harder to purchase stuff (or sell if if that's you business), maybe there are benefits on the way, but I've yet to see any.

It's given Scottish nationalists a renewed lease of life for an issue that seemed to be comprehensively put to bed for a generation, its massively divided the country, given rise to single issue populists. I certainly don't blame every issue we have on Brexit, but I remain a long way from being convinced that its been a positive force in any way.

 

[Waynemarlow]

European courts? Why is it "better" for decisions to be made in Westminster (for example) than Brussels, or Antwerp or wherever? Why is it "better" that employment law or tax decisions are made in London rather than Cardiff? York? Edinburgh? Brussels? Frankfurt?

Thanks.

Fair enough, as I have stated before, I would have voted to Remain if we as a country were willing along with every other of the 26 countries in the EU, to totally abolish their own parliaments and have just one over all Parliament with local area councils dealing with local issues.

Having two Parliaments constantly fighting each other, with all the costs involved, is just a recipe for disaster. So would you be happy to concede all Scottish Parliament decisions to the EU and abolish Holyrood, turning the building into flats for all the boat immigrants ?

 

[Sailabout]

Fair enough, as I have stated before, I would have voted to Remain if we as a country were willing along with every other of the 26 countries in the EU, to totally abolish their own parliaments and have just one over all Parliament with local area councils dealing with local issues.

Having two Parliaments constantly fighting each other, with all the costs involved, is just a recipe for disaster. So would you be happy to concede all Scottish Parliament decisions to the EU and abolish Holyrood, turning the building into flats for all the boat immigrants ?

Doesnt the Eu have 2 parliaments or they just keep moving it to suit the wind direction?

 

[Laser1]

For thr UK the economic benefits (if any) of being a member were never worth the cost of sovereignty

I'm only a very small cog in a very big works and I'm very much aware of that. However I have assisted my UK clients that were in the EU by buying in EU and suppying in the EU. No hassle, no duties, no customs delay/cost, DHL 24Hrs confirmed delivery anywhere in the EU, thank you very much. I could have easily sourced the gear in the UK but that is 25K UK business did not get from me.

I can only imagine that nationwide that must run in the 10's if not 100's of millions.

And you say that brexshit is of no economic consequence?

I'm no economist but I call bullshit.

 

[Laser1]

the CCTP will cast further shade on the EU making it increasingly unattractive even to most remainers

By the looks of it you are wielding one of those little paper parasols they put in cocktails Not a lot of shade off that sunshine. I cannot believe somebody of your intelligence even dared to bring that up.

From the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy : we have a free trade agreement with Europe.

So what percentage of GDP are we looking at .... ehm .... ehm .. ehm, I don't have figuires like that, ehm, ehm I'm not playing that game.

Where do they get these people from