Brexit WTF, WTF
- Thread starter Fiji Bitter
- Start date
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
You guys are conveniently forgetting the biggest story of the day such is your blinkered views on the proceedings. Now that in itself has just given probably 40 seats to Boris and Nige.
Tom Watson
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/11/tom-watsons-exit-double-victory-jeremy-corbyn
So the also rans just couldn't make the grade on PA, such poor little babes just have to be king of the clowns here where nobody will dish the dirt or we'll put you on "ignore", sums you guys up a bit.
jack_sparrow
Super Anarchist
- 37,393
- 5,094
Fuck..someone didn't lock the hatch behind them.....the silence there drove a Troll into escaping to here.
Last edited by a moderator:
mad
Super Anarchist
jack_sparrow
Super Anarchist
- 37,393
- 5,094
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
I think you might have the Troll referenced to the wrong guy, I know a poster on here that has put in over 10000 posts of pretty much of puerile and childish rehashs of the Twittersphere and Guardian anti Brexit bashing, without ever thinking there may actually be another side to the story.
So sit in your guilded cage, spend probably at least 20 hours a day on some days, 364 days a year, tappety tapping away on your keyboard and all for absolutely no ability to have any input what so ever into the out come. One has to ask who is the Troll ?
jack_sparrow
Super Anarchist
- 37,393
- 5,094
Word is that take out the MP's and large journalists (who obviously didn't look backwards) contingent, there were fuck all people there. Totally staged and yet written up and reported as barnstorming rally of the Tory faithful. Fuck me.
Last edited by a moderator:
mad
Super Anarchist
This sprang to mind.
Fiji Bitter
I love Fiji Bitter
- Thread starter
- #90
Sorry for that Jack, but I did ask Wayne & Warrior to go and get you, forgetting that they were on ignore. My fault, never left a man behind in the water though.
Anyway, it seems that an overwhelming majority has voted to Remain on SA, and I trust that the moderators will respect the will of the people.
And why not? Of all the the threads on SA, only a few are really about sailing, and half the threads here I never even looked at. At most other threads here I only looked once, and only five I follow regularly. Before the Brexit WTF thread I would come here once a week, now with Brexit twice a day. Admittedly this thread does not really belong here, like quite a few others, but people who are not interested in Brexit just don't click on this thread, no harm done.
This Brexit thread is a truly unique information source, thanks to some hard working posters. And if you ignore the trolls, it's not anything like a PA style shit fight. In that respect, truer words then Dogwatch's were never spoken:
Enjoy, whatever...
Last edited by a moderator:
jack_sparrow
Super Anarchist
- 37,393
- 5,094
jack_sparrow
Super Anarchist
- 37,393
- 5,094
The dangers of campaigning in away from fake studio audiences.
IPLore
Super Anarchist
This was further demoralizing news for Labour MPs and the Parliamentary Labour Party.
At the end of the day, it is Labour MPs and Labour candidates who have to knock on doors, kiss babies and win votes.........and to win, you need to feel enthusiastic about your leader and what you stand for.
Instead they are struggling with a mish mash of slogans that seem out of tune with their constituents and a leader they have no confidence in (rightly so).
When history ponders the Brexit debacle, I wonder how much blame will be put on an extreme right wing Tory/ERG and how much blame will be placed on a structural failure of the British political system to provide an effective opposition to represent the 48% .
Last edited by a moderator:
IPLore
Super Anarchist
The Bank of England statement today is the last independent read on the outlook for the UK economy before the election (BoE has to enter a quiet period during elections).
Carney is not intimidated by either side of the political spectrum.
Growth forecasts reduced again. Business investment particularly weak.....attributable in large part to Brexit uncertainty. Labor market beginning to soften. A Brexit Deal vs No Deal has stabilized and reduced risk. Economy expected to be about 1% weaker in 2020 than expected back in August. Brexit Deal (vs no deal) will help investment pick up.
Carney is not intimidated by either side of the political spectrum.
Growth forecasts reduced again. Business investment particularly weak.....attributable in large part to Brexit uncertainty. Labor market beginning to soften. A Brexit Deal vs No Deal has stabilized and reduced risk. Economy expected to be about 1% weaker in 2020 than expected back in August. Brexit Deal (vs no deal) will help investment pick up.
jack_sparrow
Super Anarchist
- 37,393
- 5,094
You are probably right that it will take a historical ponder.
For instance nearly with out exception political commentators kept assessing May's, then Boris's Brexit prospects internally against the ERG position and in turn theirs against that held by the DUP. They missed the reality being the ERG had been using, not supporting the DUP to force as hard a Brexit as they could get within the Tory Party and had no issue killing May in the process.
Once they thought they’d maximised the usefulness of the DUP’s parliamentary position they ditched them and thus freeing Boris up to ditch them too.
What failure of the British system? If half the public vote 50/50 not once but twice and possibly lining up now for a 3rd time, isn't that the foundation to gridlock, not a broken system?
Last edited by a moderator:
IPLore
Super Anarchist
Approximately half of the British electorate wanted to remain in the EU. Less than 1/4 wanted a no-deal exit.
You would think that a functioning political system would represent their views such that any departure would be moderated to take account of their concerns. With such a close vote, you would expect the exit process to be profoundly centerist.......however, in contrast, the exit process is being driven on the UK side by the most extreme Leave cabal (probably representatives of less than a 1/4rd of UK electorate). The ONLY reason the Exit terms are as reasonable as they are has nothing to do with British political leadership but because the EU took such a hard line negotiating position to protect both the EU and frankly to protect the Brits from themselves. The only people in the Brexit negotiations that were negotiating on behalf of 3/4 of the UK of England , Scotland, wales and N Ireland was the EU negotiating team .
Going into this election, if you were the proverbial man (or woman) on the Clapham omnibus, with moderate centerist views (either moderate Tory or moderate Labour), who would either prefer to remain in the EU or who could support leaving the EU if the UK remained in the single market but also believe in the efficiency of the free market economy......Who do you vote for? How are you represented?
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
The shit you are now getting is simply just one of a number of the symptoms of dis-satisfaction of the general populace of the political elite including reneging on their own undertaking, that of giving the populace a chance to vote on their future as they themselves felt it was too important a decision to made by Parliament.
Evidently the populace came up with the wrong answer and despite some 63% of constituencies voting to leave, 67% of MP's voted to Remain. Now having had a referendum on Proportional representation just 4 years earlier which the status quo of winner takes all took a commanding 68% win which incidentally was applauded by the majority of sitting MP's. Umm to me there's some pretty big percentages here which perhaps makes the 1.3 million votes advantage in the actual referendum seem even more than the so called narrow winning margin of 48 to 52% many of you seem to harp on about.
Now in many of your Twittersphere and Guardian influenced worlds, sorry there's a great big world out there inhabited by the average Joe Blogg who simply is not being represented as even existing on these pages, who has become highly politicised and will probably vote never again on tribal lines, but in a totally new way so alien to you guys, that you simply cannot comprehend how the so called political elite have so firmly kicked themselves into the unemployed ranks.
If only 3 years ago they had accepted a legitimate referendum which they had agreed before hand as something they would honor. Sorry if you try to ferk your boss's then eventually you are going to get caught out and will be kicked into touch.
Last edited by a moderator:
jack_sparrow
Super Anarchist
- 37,393
- 5,094
IP maybe that is an answer that a General Election will never provide. A pretty reasonable argument for a confirming referendum that no-one but Labour entertain.
One thing that has gone MIA is what are the more tangible benefits of leaving the EU so people can make an informed decision?
The answer is often bullshit which has unfortunately become ingrained as fact. Remainer's who have challenged any such premise are derided and labelled Remoaners. A lot of Remainer's who are willing to accept Brexit for reasons say of removing national division have relied on that bullshit in formulating that generous position. To pick an example.
The EU has been called a "protectionist racket" by those most strongly advocating Brexit.
In otherwords the EU and by extension the UK are cut off from entering into or at least discouraging countries outside the EU from entering into favourable trade deals with the EU/UK.
It is exactly this "tradeblock" argument that has the Brexit Party rejecting the Conservatives Medium /Hard Deal and in turn Conservatives rejecting Labours Soft Brexit being very closely aligned with the EU.
It would therefore help many if someone in a position of respect and having a wide reaching put a spotlight on this "tradeblock" bullshit.
A thing called the Trade Barrier Index (TBI) shows EU countries are in fact some of the most open to trade in the world. Because of state by state regulation differences the UK is top of the EU list so today is one of most open to trade in the world.
Yet Brexiteers advise otherwise. They are that fucked up they believe their tradeblock bullshit is now fact. To add insult to injury Brexiteers put the US on their trade deal wish list yet the US is one of the least open to trade in the world.
Maybe the penny might drop one day as to Trump's love of Brexit in this TBI context and that of the US currently having a trade deficit with the UK, and it being the UK's largest single customer. The UK will get fucked by the US and Brexit, that is fact.
Maybe it's time people with the responsibility given them started talking fucking facts in this debate for a change. If that happens Brexit is dead and dead is what it deserves.
PS. After digesting that then maybe these genius Brexiteers should explain to 65 million people where the UK is going to sit in the world of trade as a minnow amoungst elephants? Where all its existing major trading partners including the elephants are members of "trade blocks". The word "fucked" comes to mind.
Last edited by a moderator:
cms
Super Anarchist
Thanks for that Jack. I am sure Wayne will take it on board.... You are spot on about this being a headline factor for many sensible voters. Sad that it takes so long for the truth to be seen, and sadder still that so few will see or be willing to see.
Waynemarlow
Super Anarchist
And that's where you guys underestimate the average Joe Bloggs, this was and has been since discussed at length both before and after the referendum on the media and people decided that as the 5th / 6th trading nation in the world, yes initially it would take a while to get the equivalent trade deals, but those countries outside of the EU may just want to trade with us and a quick trade deal may just be a bit of a bonus to many of those who pay large tariffs getting goods into the EU. There is after all a world outside of the EU wanting to trade with the UK.
Balance those few years of a bit of pain, which would be resolved in the short to medium term, with what many perceived to reasons to leave and people voted accordingly. Its only dipsticks like Jacko who keep repeating the obvious to highlight his own self importance and suckers like yourself who keep tut tutting just how awful the decision the Ros Beefs made.
