Brexit WTF, WTF

Panoramix

Super Anarchist
BBC is rabidly pro EU anti-Brexit. That is indisputable. They jump on any tiny issue and try and spin it anti-Brexit. Desperate stuff.
That is simply not true, go on their Brexit tab (you have to dig deep) and you will realise that they don't talk very often about it. Hardly "jumping on any tiny issue".

One objective of pro-Brexit campaigners like me is to make sure the divergence from EU is so substantial rejoining is impossible. This is one reason I want to see the existing EU-UK FTA terminated. 
Keep digging... anyway I am not sure that the EU would be over enthusiastic on the UK re-joining. You are wasting energy, it won't happen anytime soon. Right now I am putting money where my mouth is as I've discovered that my daughters were eligible to the British citizenship and I am spending my "hard earned cash" on lawyer fees!

It is highly unlikely any mainstream UK political party will fight an election campaign with rejoin on manifesto. One reason Labour were so badly crushed in 2019 is they stood on a platform of a second referendum. Labour have just said they would renegotiate the trade deal but realistically they have zero chance of winning power in 2023, much like PS in France they have imploded. Also Boris is changing the election rules back to how they were before 2010. This means he could call an earlier election which he may well do for example if we join the CTPP as public support will almost certainly be very strong for that
If I was a labour activist, I would be pleased with this statement. Brexiters seem to have a knack for making wrong predictions....

 
Right now I am putting money where my mouth is as I've discovered that my daughters were eligible to the British citizenship and I am spending my "hard earned cash" on lawyer fees!
So despite all the negativity you write re Britain , your daughters have gone, Dad it’s important to us to have British citizenship and you by funding them, agree.

Can I ask why they prefer British citizenship over French ?

 

Panoramix

Super Anarchist
So despite all the negativity you write re Britain , your daughters have gone, Dad it’s important to us to have British citizenship and you by funding them, agree.

Can I ask why they prefer British citizenship over French ?
They will get both and get out the most convenient passport, no need to decide which citizenship is better...

I am not negative about Britain, I like the country and its people otherwise I would not have spent 10 years there! I am just very negative about nationalism whatever its shade, I dislike equally Zemnour and Farage. I think I slightly prefer Farage as Brexit seen from outside appears such a disaster that our nationalists stopped talking about Frexit. You need to give credit when it is due.

 
Interesting, so a bit of cake and eat it then.

Funnily enough I have no objections to having two passports and realise gone are the days of having to relinquish one or other to decide which country you support. Sadly today though as many of my chattering class friends both Leavers and Remainers have done with applying for Italian German Irish etc passports, its the preserve of the wealthy and all for convenience rather than genuine reasoning.

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,709
116
Hamble / Paris
@Panoramix

”no time soon” is not good enough for me. I want to ensure we never rejoin EU. I despise the organisation and have done so for 20 years. Remember the French don’t like it much either, they voted against the EU constitution but Sarkozy pushed it down their throats via the Lisbon Treaty. The UK needs to ensure it’s doesn’t fall foul of the same sort of manoeuvres

I think its a good plan to get the second citizenship for your kids despite the cost, gives them options and I firmly believe they will have better employments options in UK than they will in France going forward. 
 

Brexit activists won and did so battling the entire establishment, media and all major political parties. Its always more difficult to vote for change so the victory was even more sweet. Remain campaign was full of lies and scare stories, deep recessions on even voting Leave, 500k job losses immediately, immediate punishment budget with tax rises etc etc. It is Remain who have no credibility. None.
 

I am a big supporter of the Vote Leave tag line “EU No. Europe Yes”

We are moving on and moving forward. We will be best served with no trade deal with EU and no entanglement in PESCO or the other EU Defence structures. We need out of all of that 

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,709
116
Hamble / Paris
Provide evidence for this, or retract it.

The UK governments own report states that the UK was netting £300m per year from Erasmus, as I cited previously. Where do you read that they are wrong?
Student numbers into UK were substantially higher than UK students into EU. The programme was thus a huge cost as fees charged per student do not cover the costs. University places are subsidised by govt/tax payer.

Why don’t you send me the link to the Govt report / figures which show otherwise ? My feeling is that you / remain activists are claiming that total tuition fees charged by UK were higher than fees charged by non UK institutions thus we “made a pofit”. We did not it was a loss. Switzerland withdrew from Erasmus as they said it wasn’t worth it. 

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,709
116
Hamble / Paris
So despite all the negativity you write re Britain , your daughters have gone, Dad it’s important to us to have British citizenship and you by funding them, agree.

Can I ask why they prefer British citizenship over French ?
Wayne I think many in EU are disappointed UK has left as they want freedom of movement to UK. Remain campaign quoted 3m EU citizens in UK but the registration scheme has shown the true number is double that at 6m. They also recognise the EU is substantially weaker without UK (equivalent economically to 19 smallest member states) so they know that will hurt their country. There is also the media myth that Brexit was a “right wing project” and thus most in centre and left politically are anti-Brexit (worth noting hard left in France is very anti-EU as it was in UK)

There have been record levels of UK passport applications from EU citizens. This is not a surprise. It’s expensive but it makes sense.

 
Why don’t you send me the link to the Govt report / figures which show otherwise ? My feeling is that you / remain activists are claiming that total tuition fees charged by UK were higher than fees charged by non UK institutions thus we “made a pofit”. We did not it was a loss. Switzerland withdrew from Erasmus as they said it wasn’t worth it. 
Yup the double whammy was we paid into the Erasmus scheme to support the kids living costs, to come to our country to be given free education in probably the most expensive Uni's in Europe, in double the numbers than our kids going to 27 other countries and yet we charge our own kids for everything.

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,709
116
Hamble / Paris
I’ll stop coming here.

One last diagnose for the two brexiteers…It’s a bad case of  schizophrenic nonsense. 
Your choice but understand that one strength of the best UK schools and universities is debate.

The EU Referendum was the largest democratic exercise the UK has ever seen. More people (17.4m) voted to Leave the EU than have ever voted for anything ever before. The French voted against the EU Constitution (most of which was rolled into the Lisbon Treaty), as did the Irish until they were made to vote again. There are many in Europe who dislike EU membership. It is a function of the deeply undemocratic and sinister EU that they don’t care and  just rumble onwards towards “ever closer union” … it is one way only, it NEVER ends

 
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hump101

Anarchist
Student numbers into UK were substantially higher than UK students into EU. The programme was thus a huge cost as fees charged per student do not cover the costs. University places are subsidised by govt/tax payer.

Why don’t you send me the link to the Govt report / figures which show otherwise ? My feeling is that you / remain activists are claiming that total tuition fees charged by UK were higher than fees charged by non UK institutions thus we “made a pofit”. We did not it was a loss. Switzerland withdrew from Erasmus as they said it wasn’t worth it. 


From the earlier citation I provided, page 19:

[SIZE=16.7px]“A priority will be working with international counterparts on the [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16.7px]funding of inbound students, who won’t be covered by the [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16.7px]scheme. Inbound exchange students contributed £440 million to [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16.7px]the UK economy in 2018 and there are real concerns about [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16.7px]whether the UK will see a decrease outside of the Erasmus [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16.7px]scheme."[/SIZE]

In the same year the UK contribution was €160m to the Erasmus programme, which then pays the fees and other costs. So a net positive for the UK taxpayer of about £300m.

With the proposed Turing scheme the UK will pay everything for every outgoing student, plus all of the infrastructure and administation. From the same cite, page 18, the cost will be £100m in 21/22, with no contribution by incoming students to the UK economy.

 

gewoon ik

Member
351
82
Flora
you really think they will read it now?

If they didn't bother to read it the first time, they will not bother to read it a second time.

They don't like reading their wrongs.

 
6 years late, only Donkeys do the same old thing over and over and over, what a waste of money and time.

image.png

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,709
116
Hamble / Paris
@hump101

Sorry but that "analysis" is nonsense. Erasmus doesn't being additional students into the UK. If they weren't here their places would be taken by others including EU students who chose to study here outside that programme.

UK Universities are consistently oversubscribed. Erasmus helped EU students attend UK Uni by providing grants but those places have been taken by others now

 

cms

Super Anarchist
How long have we heard about how the French and others want out of the EU? No point in producing the figures that show, again and again, that the great majority of European citizens want to stay in the EU. Criticise absolutely. We do that non stop. But we believe the EU is fundamentally beneficial in all sorts of ways, and we will go on trying to improve it.

No point in expecting the blinkered Brexiteers to accept this.

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,709
116
Hamble / Paris
How long have we heard about how the French and others want out of the EU? No point in producing the figures that show, again and again, that the great majority of European citizens want to stay in the EU. Criticise absolutely. We do that non stop. But we believe the EU is fundamentally beneficial in all sorts of ways, and we will go on trying to improve it.

No point in expecting the blinkered Brexiteers to accept this.
The French definitively voted against what they saw as EU expansion towards a state. Sarkozy rammed it down their throats anyway via Lisbon Treaty.

Barnier who is running for President (zero chance as far too old and seen as a failure in domestic politics which is why he went to Brussels ) is ironically running on a platform of "taking back control" removing right of ECJ to override French courts and also on limiting immigration.

There is much eurosceptism in France, Macron himself said if given a referendum France would vote to Leave. So you will never be given one, the political elite will see to it. As you have given up your currency you are basically trapped now

 

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