Brexit WTF, WTF

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,757
142
Hamble / Paris
Jamba is funny, really a Brexit dinosaur. Fixed in his believes. He should be placed in the Brexit Museum.
Is that museum still going on ? Empty shelves the newest addition ?

Forst is going back to 2016 again in speech the eve before EU to publish NIP solutions, workarounds.
Frost setting red line that is impossible and rejecting it before he has seen them.
Very May-ish. Nothing changed. Arguing for No Deal again. As if the EU is impressed by that.
Best qoute;
Frost: "Hard Brexit" the only version that allows UK to "experiment" and "freedom to act". Says Brexit is an experiment in alternative futures. 

Experiment, normally you do them with an outlined plan. Brexit seems to be a experiment without plan or preparations.
Take it to the chin.
 
Playing the man not the ball Leo. Classic technique used by Remain which saw them lose. Cheap and ignorant pot shots.

Panic buying fuel is over in UK, garages stocked. No EU drivers have arrived and only 27 applied for a visa anyway. Now appears low stocks were due to switch from E5 to E10 fuel.  In Paris supermarket today and my wife was complaining about the number of items out stock, supposedly there is a shortage of paper pulp for loo rolls here too.

I watched Lord Frost's speech. He was spot on. 
 

The plan Leo is global Britain and a rotation away from EU. Regulatory  divergence where it makes sense. Frost touched on all of that too.

Frost Speech

 
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LeoV

Super Anarchist
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The Netherlands
Playing the man not the ball Leo.
Euh, you played the man on me before, you Duffus. Do not play the victimhood card.

FBhIVqoWUAY1x0p

Frost words, he recognizes that UK is dependable on the EU. A bit strange he only became clear of it after Brexit :)
A real Raab experience, I did not know Dover was important.
The UK never can turn away from the EU, its needs it.

 

Fiji Bitter

I love Fiji Bitter
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GOLD

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This was a unique "screenshot" in the Jack_Sparrow memorial thread, in Corona Anarchy. The 4 most notorious serial Deplorables in a gangwank!

BTW, Whine has been on ignore since his 2nd post here. Occasionally quoting him is ok though, just to remind me why we all like him so much.

 
Aaah poor little Jack is back, couldn't keep away, won't be long and that addiction of his, that itsy bitsy fuzzy feeling he gets tappety tap tapping away on his keyboard, will get him flicked.

Shall we run a sweepstake between us how long he lasts before he pushes over the Ed's red lines ?

 

LeoV

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Fiji, just focus on the NIP Frost speech, it is comedy gold.(unless you are living/have relatives in the UK)

If he won’t stick the first deal he agreed why would he stick to a new one. Especially as the first deal was one he wanted…

This governments arrogance is unreal. They were warned that their Brexit was going to unsettle the delicate situation in Ireland, but now its the EUs fault.

He claims the EU 'doesn't always look like it wants UK to succeed'.

He lists the things he misses from the EU.

He wants to work with the EU, bad calls them idiots.

He claims the UK sees a bonfire of red tape.

And the best one;
Frost on NI protocol "We now face a very serious situation. The protocol is not working, has completely lost consent in one community"
Same for Brexit, can we redo the referendum about Brexit please.

 
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Fiji Bitter

I love Fiji Bitter
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Fiji, just focus on the NIP Frost speech, it is comedy gold.(unless you are living/have relatives in the UK)
This is exactly what made me to become a bit sentimental earlier on. On the one hand I enjoy seeing the Brexshit becoming epidemic, but on the other hand I feel the pain that so many suffer, and the great friendship and cooperation that we build since racing sailor and Conservative Ted Heath signed the EC accession treaty, going to shit.

But life moves on, and I'm certainly not gone cry about it. Will just spend more of my "holidays" on the continent as a consequence.

 

Sailabout

Super Anarchist
The UK mentality is very different to France with respect to how the economy should function. We are much less interventionalist, even the left wing Labour Party is more free market than the French right wing UMP. France has EU's largest state sector / civil service. It's a very hands on strategy in so many aspects of economic life. To be honest this is another reason why UK is better off outside EU as that French mentality is highly prevalent in Brussels
all true, can you imagine how big the pension debt is in France...its a country run like Enron

 

hump101

Anarchist
all true, can you imagine how big the pension debt is in France...its a country run like Enron
Actually wrong. France has a large state sector because the state sector runs industries that are private in other countries, but those industries in France fund themselves, and also run similar services in other countries for profit, so the economic impact of the large state in France is not the same as in, for example, the UK, where the nearly as large state sector is entirely funded by tax from the private sector.

 

Sailabout

Super Anarchist
Actually wrong. France has a large state sector because the state sector runs industries that are private in other countries, but those industries in France fund themselves, and also run similar services in other countries for profit, so the economic impact of the large state in France is not the same as in, for example, the UK, where the nearly as large state sector is entirely funded by tax from the private sector.
what are you smoking

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-france-debt-idUKKBN2300HE

When those state employees retire the state pays yes?
A french company making a profit, hard to think of one, can you help me out?
Is there any company in France thats not funded by the state hence all state employees when they retire?

 
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I've always wondered why the EU has not been kicking off about the amount of subsidy the French state puts into its self owned industries. Surely this is just a subsidy scam on a grand scale. But then I guess France is a law unto itself, well until it wants to be part of the EU.

Hey whats this about Macron wanting the French to man up and go Commando spirit and support homegrown industries ? Seems to be everything not Euro to me or is that just Macron bluster for there is a presidential election coming ?

 

LeoV

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Dominic Cummings, who left No. 10 last November following a row about who became the British prime minister's next chief of staff and has been a vocal critic of his former boss ever since, hurled grenades at Johnson in a series of late-night tweets.

He said the U.K. government "wriggled through with best option we could [negotiate with the EU]" and then intended to "ditch bits we didn't like after whacking [Labour leader Jeremy] Corbyn" in the general election in December 2019. He added that the plan was to pass an Internal Market Bill, which would override parts of what had been agreed with Brussels.

The claims amount to an admission that the 2019 election was fought on entirely disingenuous grounds. John Cotter, a law lecturer at Keele university, concluded that if true, the Tories had been “playing with” the Northern Ireland peace process to win an election. He said it was “absolutely deplorable, and I don’t think the word evil is an exaggeration.”

Britain faced considerable international blowback for the strategy in September 2020, when a minister admitted the government intended to backtrack on the deal it had struck with Brussels. The government later dropped the plan.

Cummings added that the prime minister hadn't lied in the election campaign because he “never had a scoobydoo what the deal he signed meant” in the first place.
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/apologies-for-brexit-cummings-microblogs-grenades-bojos-hols-diary/

 
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LeoV

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What to expect: Almost every U.K. newspaper appears to have had the same briefing about what to expect, including the claim that up to 50 percent of customs checks could be scrapped, including on chilled meats and plants moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, plus the ending of checks on medicines. Goods intended for NI could pass through a “green lane” with minimal checks, while those destined for the Republic of Ireland or the wider Continent would be put in a “red lane” for more stringent procedures. Customs forms would be done for entire trucks, rather than individual goods — a proposal that will sound to traders like the sweet rattle of a fresh paracetamol blister pack. RTE’s Tony Connelly has a handy Twitter thread for those who like their Brexit customs proposals chunkified.

Trigger warning: EU diplomats speaking to the Telegraph likened it to the long-forgotten “maximum facilitation” proposal (a.k.a. the “Malthouse Compromise” plan from 2019), albeit with real tech solutions instead of imagined ones. Customs expert and trade Twitter oracle Anna Jerzewska reckons the rough briefings sound like a big deal — although stresses it’s worth waiting for the full deets. NI Retail Consortium boss Aodhán Michael Connolly also sounds positive.

But but but: The Tele notes Brussels will make the offer conditional on getting real-time access to U.K. trade databases to police the movement of products. The Brits are working on two bespoke systems, one for customs safety forms and another to track goods into Ireland, and Brussels wants in. “We always needed access to these databases, but now with these new flexibilities that are being offered it is a must-have,” the paper quotes a diplomat as saying.
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/apologies-for-brexit-cummings-microblogs-grenades-bojos-hols-diary/

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UK bigging up solutions for NI/I border during years of Brexit discussions. As expected EU is slinging it back, do it between UK and NI.
So predictable, and sensible :)

 

hump101

Anarchist
what are you smoking

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-france-debt-idUKKBN2300HE

When those state employees retire the state pays yes?
A french company making a profit, hard to think of one, can you help me out?
Is there any company in France thats not funded by the state hence all state employees when they retire?
Not disputing that French debt to GDP is horrible, but unfortunately also typical of more and more nations these days, including UK.

An example of a French state company is SNCF, which is a part of the French state but has €35.1 billion/annum (2019) of sales in 120 countries, employing 275,000 people. Being state-owned their net profits hover around zero, a major benefit of state ownership for their French customers, but they make good profits on the overseas components of their portfolio which all flows back into France. They've had a big hit in the COVID crisis, like all public transport companies, but that will recover over time.

EDF is another example, 84.5% owned by the state, with €71.3 billion/annum (2019) of sales in every continent, employing 155,000 people. Again, highly profitable on its overseas operations and energy export.

There are many other examples where the French state is intertwined with industry to the benefit of both.

 

Sailabout

Super Anarchist
Not disputing that French debt to GDP is horrible, but unfortunately also typical of more and more nations these days, including UK.

An example of a French state company is SNCF, which is a part of the French state but has €35.1 billion/annum (2019) of sales in 120 countries, employing 275,000 people. Being state-owned their net profits hover around zero, a major benefit of state ownership for their French customers, but they make good profits on the overseas components of their portfolio which all flows back into France. They've had a big hit in the COVID crisis, like all public transport companies, but that will recover over time.

EDF is another example, 84.5% owned by the state, with €71.3 billion/annum (2019) of sales in every continent, employing 155,000 people. Again, highly profitable on its overseas operations and energy export.

There are many other examples where the French state is intertwined with industry to the benefit of both.
yes but when they retire the state has to come up with the money for retirement.

What I am getting at is that with the retirement zero funded problem, I think France is at the top of the list on the numbers they need to support due to all the state owned businesses.

I know plenty in Italy get company pensions so can survive.

The debt to dgp is not reflective of a positive cashflow from any and all sources ( pre the wuhan, everyone is in that boat)

 
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hump101

Anarchist
yes but when they retire the state has to come up with the money for retirement.

The debt to dgp is not reflective of a positive cashflow from any and all sources
Agreed, but the companies will continue to be productive, and thus the pension bill is offset by continued earnings. You can look at this two ways, either as the state being large but with additional funding streams, or the state being effectively smaller without them. Either way, the burden placed on the French economy by the large size of the state is not the same as it would be without these intertwined industrial entities.

Debt to GDP in France has been high for a long time, but the economy has been shown to be quite resilient so has not seen large increases unlike many other over the last 15 years.

 

Sailabout

Super Anarchist
Agreed, but the companies will continue to be productive, and thus the pension bill is offset by continued earnings. You can look at this two ways, either as the state being large but with additional funding streams, or the state being effectively smaller without them. Either way, the burden placed on the French economy by the large size of the state is not the same as it would be without these intertwined industrial entities.

Debt to GDP in France has been high for a long time, but the economy has been shown to be quite resilient so has not seen large increases unlike many other over the last 15 years.
so long as the ECB keeps printing money

 

hump101

Anarchist
so long as the ECB keeps printing money
Agreed, printing money is one way out of this level of debt, a second is cronic inflation, and the third option is both at the same time! I think the rather casual attitude towards debt levels might change a bit if interest rates rise to try and combat inflation. We shall see which way it goes.

Nevertheless, having an economy in which the state has a high degree of control is more resilient in changing times than one in which the markets dictate everything, and the French decision to spend its way out of the 2008 crisis is looking pretty good right now.

 

Sailabout

Super Anarchist
Agreed, printing money is one way out of this level of debt, a second is cronic inflation, and the third option is both at the same time! I think the rather casual attitude towards debt levels might change a bit if interest rates rise to try and combat inflation. We shall see which way it goes.

Nevertheless, having an economy in which the state has a high degree of control is more resilient in changing times than one in which the markets dictate everything, and the French decision to spend its way out of the 2008 crisis is looking pretty good right now.
borrow and spend its way out of debt lol
I guess it kicks the can down the road for the next generation as many Eu members have been doing for years

 




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