Brian Bennett's VX from the FP

Peacefrog

Super Anarchist
2,403
27
The one thing that would make the Viper a better boat is a furling jib! So yes the 19'er needs a furler.

 

jh26

Member
181
0
Georgia
The one thing that would make the Viper a better boat is a furling jib! So yes the 19'er needs a furler.
A furling jib sure would be nice between races and when docking, at least. Or when sailing downwind two-up, just to get it out of the way.

A hard chine means less flair in the top sides (narrower beam)
It's a box rule - it's supposed to fit flat in a standard 20 foot container, so it's narrower than a Viper.

 

tphil

Member
169
0
Run a line from the jib's head, down thru the hanks , thru a carbo lite block at the tack and back to the cockpit.

When you want the jib gone, pop the haylard and pull the downhall line.

No need to go up on the foredeck.

 

ryley

Super Anarchist
5,543
682
Boston, MA
well stated, jh. Can't say I've ever entered a race where the max length was under 25'. but I think the point is still valid that if the end result is to have a glut of 20' boats on the market, then we should just keep encouraging designers to design them. If your goal is to have really good, big od fleets, seems like a design a week in this space is a lot of dilution.

Like I said, I wish the design all the luck in the world. It's gonna need it, at least in the US.

 

Jkdubz808

Megatron
3,928
526
Stuart, FL
VX sounds like fun, what with a double spreader rig and a MH kite. Anyone have any drawings or anything?
Of course. But I also have early drawings of the Viper which bear little resemblance to the finished product. Likewise the Melges 20 mast is shorter than the drawings. For the history buffs, the Viper didnt even have a keel!

True, original drawings always get tampered with. I still think the Viper would be awesome with a slightly deeper T keel, twin spreader rig and a masthead ayso.

Can someone say Viper SS? :lol:

 

proppast

New member
wow. I was hoping for a game changer which would start to get going in the light; this club version looks like a scaled down Viper, with the same low freeboard, same fractional spinaker, same pinhead main.

not sure why it needs a self tacker or fractional hoist.

We've watched the smaller boats like the Open and they go nicely, but when a sea comes up like in the Bay, then they can tend to be suffering a bit from the short length. How this thing will go with not much above the water I don't know.

or why it needs to be 2 classes.

So this isn't fragmenting the 20 something group of boats with another entry, it is actually 2 entries, the one on the website and the faster one with the which is probably the more interesting one.

Have been looking at the Viper 640 for a while.... if this is what the designer can come up with 10+ years later, either means the Viper was ahead of its time, or there ain't any new ideas in the world of 20 something boats.

 

davidgugg

New member
As a current Viper owner, I'm not sure why we should get bent of shape with Brian...J boats and Melges have come out with new boats that compete with existing ones. Looking at the weight of the boat, its ability to be containerized and moved, having a Southern spar, and being built here in America make it an extremely viable and interesting boat. The below-the-deck level roller furling jib is a big plus. Also, note that Brian appears to have designed the jib track to open the leach when tacking. The spinnaker hole appears to be double the size, which is a fantastic improvement on the sail-life of the spinnaker.

Guggs

Black Mamba #109

 

tphil

Member
169
0
FYI

From what I've read elsewhere -

Guggs is close buddies with Brian.

He has sold his Viper.

Add 2+2, he will likely buy a VX.

 

superg

Member
193
11
With 385 lb displacement and only 135 lb of ballast, the VX is far more dinghy than keelboat. Its closest competition is the K6, which at 616 lb/278 lb ballast is far heavier and stiffer. Really a new segment, quite different from the Viper-- more like a Johnson 18 (designed by Rodger Martin) with a lump of lead.

 

The Advocate

Super Anarchist
As a current Viper owner, I'm not sure why we should get bent of shape with Brian...J boats and Melges have come out with new boats that compete with existing ones. Looking at the weight of the boat, its ability to be containerized and moved, having a Southern spar, and being built here in America make it an extremely viable and interesting boat. The below-the-deck level roller furling jib is a big plus. Also, note that Brian appears to have designed the jib track to open the leach when tacking. The spinnaker hole appears to be double the size, which is a fantastic improvement on the sail-life of the spinnaker.

Guggs

Black Mamba #109
The size of the hole has fuck all to do with the life of a spinnaker, I am a sailmaker by trade, I know.

From all the reports here, the Viper containerises just fine.

The jib track being shaped as you described has been done before, and we tossed it in the bin. There is one way to do it, and he hasn't drawn it that way. It is a wank anyway.

Southern Spar are not the only decent spar builder in the world, and for this size boat, there are more experienced elsewhere.

Building it America, can you explain why that is a plus, cause it didn't work originally. Who is the builder, we dont trust many down here from the US.

Why when he drew the Viper on his pat, has he brought in other for this venture? Spreading the risk perhaps.

Just came back from a world championships close party, big topic of conversation funnily enough was that there are to many classes, and to many commercial interest launching more, not for the benefit or health of the sport, but to line their own pockets.

If this had of been an 8 mtr boat, I would be patting Brian on the back, but it is IMHO a direct competitor to a class that he failed at marketing and is now trying to reinvent, which in the mean time has been adopted and promoted by a group of owners that have done a awesome job.

A group of other guys made his baby beautiful and successful, so his ego makes him have another go.

FAIL, again.

 
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jh26

Member
181
0
Georgia
if this had of been an 8 mtr boat, I would be patting Brian on the back, but it is IMHO a direct competitor
A meter longer would be great, but a meter shorter not so much? Really? I think Brian did an 8m boat once upon a time, so maybe that's why he's going smaller this time.

The VX is a dinghy, the Viper is a keelboat - it's hard to see them as "direct" competitors.

 

Pai

Member
246
0
Boston, MA
As a current Viper owner, I'm not sure why we should get bent of shape with Brian...J boats and Melges have come out with new boats that compete with existing ones. Looking at the weight of the boat, its ability to be containerized and moved, having a Southern spar, and being built here in America make it an extremely viable and interesting boat. The below-the-deck level roller furling jib is a big plus. Also, note that Brian appears to have designed the jib track to open the leach when tacking. The spinnaker hole appears to be double the size, which is a fantastic improvement on the sail-life of the spinnaker.

Guggs

Black Mamba #109
The size of the hole has fuck all to do with the life of a spinnaker, I am a sailmaker by trade, I know.

From all the reports here, the Viper containerises just fine.

The jib track being shaped as you described has been done before, and we tossed it in the bin. There is one way to do it, and he hasn't drawn it that way. It is a wank anyway.

Southern Spar are not the only decent spar builder in the world, and for this size boat, there are more experienced elsewhere.

Building it America, can you explain why that is a plus, cause it didn't work originally. Who is the builder, we dont trust many down here from the US.

Why when he drew the Viper on his pat, has he brought in other for this venture? Spreading the risk perhaps.

Just came back from a world championships close party, big topic of conversation funnily enough was that there are to many classes, and to many commercial interest launching more, not for the benefit or health of the sport, but to line their own pockets.

If this had of been an 8 mtr boat, I would be patting Brian on the back, but it is IMHO a direct competitor to a class that he failed at marketing and is now trying to reinvent, which in the mean time has been adopted and promoted by a group of owners that have done a awesome job.

A group of other guys made his baby beautiful and successful, so his ego makes him have another go.

FAIL, again.

From what I have read in your post, you've provided a bunch of stupid answers with no actual facts. Basically attacking the Viper Class association's technical chair (2+ years now) with bullshit answers which don't have any sort of merit to them.

-WHAT boat did you toss the jib track design from???

-Why don't you actually name a spar builder you feel would be better for this sized boat?

-Who is "we" when you talk about US boat builders that aren't trusted?

"Just came back from a world championships close party, big topic of conversation funnily enough was that there are to many classes, and to many commercial interest launching more, not for the benefit or health of the sport, but to line their own pockets."

"A group of other guys made his baby beautiful and successful, so his ego makes him have another go."

Wow this world championships "close" party must have been awesome, but somehow you managed to imply that Brian Bennett has basically started another class to line his pockets with money? You really have NO clue about the Viper class or maybe you do and choose to ignore it.

 
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EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,657
2,124
The VX is a dinghy, the Viper is a keelboat - it's hard to see them as "direct" competitors.
Really!

Its got a bulb keel

The website describes it as a two or three person sport boat.

It lines look deliberately like a Viper

It is a different boat, but seems to be aiming at the same audience.

The Advocate
I think this is a DICK move by Brian.

If I was a Viper owner in the US he would really be on my shit list.

I'm guessing he is already on the shit list of a lot of Viper owners.

Despite the cloying Kumbaya that we always seem to get from the Viper Class organization there is clearly a back story here.

Brian works for Rondar for a year in 2009 and then he's gone. Then last December all of us on a Newport mailing list get an email from Brian announcing that he is building a Viper and we can order them from him. Then a letter from Brian on SA savaging the class association and accusing Rondar of using decrepit molds. Then the VX19.

One interpretation is that he tried to come back and take over the Viper Class. They didnt cave in. He's off building a competitor and Viper sailors publicly wish him well but privately breathe a sigh of relief that he is leaving them alone.

IMO, this is an alternative to the RS K6. We don't need an alternative to the RS K6. We need an inexpensive alternative to the Melges 20. A well made production 20' sport boat with a non-hiking emphasis that doesnt cost an arm and a leg.

 
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EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,657
2,124
I wonder if Brian Bennett knows that Kenner already makes a boat in the US called a VX19

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:)

 

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Soley

Super Anarchist
I think it would have a mistake for Brian not to take his cues from his very successful design. You look at the Melges 20, 24 and 32, it is obvious they all have the same DNA. This is very much a Bennett boat.

With the bulb keel I wish he had gone for a more efficient T-bulb. It looks like the rudder may need a bit of refinement.

Also a masthead kite, these days the average sailor can handle the extra sail area. I would probably have given it a bit more of a square top main but not by much. I am not a great fan of the full Open style square top.

The hull, I really like. I wonder if it has as much rocker as the Viper. That is a feature I really like as it makes it a more forgiving downwind boat and a sweet upwind boat.

 

tphil

Member
169
0
At one point Brian was going to build Vipers down under for that market.

I'm told he had the Viper class blessing to do this. Then he changed his mind.

-

This summer a Viper will be modified into a non-hiking configuration.

Much like an M20.

There will also be some other owner requested mods. Sort of a Granpa Viper.

The mods will all be removable for OD racing. If it all works, there will be pictures.

If it doesn't, never mind.

 




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