Brian Bennett's VX from the FP

[The Advocate]

The Advocate

I still own Black Mamba -sailed it at Mardi Gras regatta and will sail in Charleston Race Week, check the scratch sheet. Yes I have it sold after Charleston, haven't got paid yet so I own the boat. Also owned #23 and #77 before #109. Yes I have sailed on and off with Brian as well as lots of other sailors; it's a free world. Viper.org is the current class Pres for the Viper 640 and for full disclosure I lent him my Honda Pilot after his car crapped out in South Carolina to go to Bacardi/ Miami Race Week, while I went to Mardi Gras. DanTucker you left me with 1/2 a tank of gas! Dan left his boat at Brian Bennett's shop for clean up work on his keel as did another sailor from the Pan Handle, so turn that any way you want. Pai also has sailed with me; great sailor. Chic hikes like hell and can call wind better than most of us down wind. "Suspicious Development" - Brian hasn't been affiliated with Rondar since September 2009. Have at it and design all you want Bennett, JBoats ,Melges, Farr,Taylor............

Now that I answered your questions, who are you .... Sailmaker , What Loft , where do you ply your trade? Who do you coach?

Guggs

Viper Black Mamba #109

Fair enough, some of the posters here were incorrect then with the fact that you had sold it.

Said I was a sailmaker by trade, not currently though I still do a lot of spec type work for owners who want an independent assessment of what they need. I have worked for UK, Quantum and Norths over a period of about 18 years.

Have coached 420 world champion, MR national champion womens, MR youth nation champions, NSW Youth champions, F11 womans national champions, worked with my partner (silver Qingdao) in her build up to the worlds last year and had to totally redevelop the boat for her as well from its light air configuration as well as who she sails the boat, just finish off coaching a blind MR team, they came last but as the only team with all sailors B1's (totally blind) we were very happy with their progress and are looking towards the next worlds in the UK. There has been a heap of other programs I have done as well, but I think that gives you a good summary. I coach across a big range of disciplines, is a bit tougher, but I enjoy it.

As I said in the very start of this thread, I like the look of the VX, and am looking at purchasing something for the missus and I to sail. All I have questioned is how this come about because it seem underhanded. If you guys that are involved are happy with your position, then fine.

As it is with the Vipers growing here in Perth, thanks to Brian's efforts, I don't think the VX would get a look in.

BTW, if Brian hasn't been affiliated with Rondar since Sept 2009 and it is now March 2011, and he has been developing the boat for 3 years.....

 

[Nat Jackson]

Like I said, until you have a SB, don't crap on about stuff you don't know. Keep your insipid ways for the poor offshore group.

So you know - a truly benevolent person doesn't use what they do to try and situate themselves beyond reproach.

Which sportsboat do you sail on again

Until you do, why dont you just shut up?

At this very moment I am concentrating on an offshore program and having a break from sportsboats, as I cant sail on as much as I used to and help my partner with her paralympic campaign at the same time.

In the past I have sailed on designs such as; Elliot 770, Elliot 780, Elliot 7 FD, Elliot ESPX, Thompson 7, Thompson 750, Costin 7, Sports 8 plus some others I cant remember.

I am look towards buying a 2-3 person sportsboat after the campaign for us to sail and have discussed with Dan Tucker the possibility of installing a transfer bar so that Rach can sail it. I am looking forward to making it to Miami OCR and the worlds as I have had Viper offers for the race week just after these.

Whilst I might not be sailing a SB at the moment, how does that me any less qualified to comment? Or SW are you just doing your usual internet troll thing of finding what I post and being negative towards it. The pattern continues...

 

[tphil]

Outside observations-

The Aluminum keel will be less expensive to manufacture than conventional types.

There will be an initial extrusion die investment cost, but much lower labor costs in the build shop.

Probably made from 6061 tempered to T6 level.

It could be extruded with two thru holes running the full length.

Then stainless bars would tie the bulb directly to the top plate.

Brian,

Just make sure there is enough cord depth to avoid stalling in light air.

It is better to be on the safe side.

Some of the keel drawings seen on these pages have insane aspect ratios.

A kick-up or retracting rudder might be a good feature.

 

[Jkdubz808]

That makes sense about aluminum foils.

I'd like to see a cassette style ridder that slides into a box connected to the tiller, like the FT 10s and an Andrews 28 have.

 

[jh26]

Hey Brian, if you are still monitoring this thread I got a question. The website says the blades will be aluminum (minus the bulb of course). Is that true? if so, why not go with carbon or glass and why aluminum? Also, if one gets the club version, will it be relatively easy to convert it to the SS version down the road? Or vice versa if you wanna go back to the CS version?

Yes, conversion between CS and SS will be trivial in both directions. All boats will be CS, and the SS will be designed as an upgrade option. The only thing special is that support for the SS features is designed and engineered in from the start.

re: alum blades, Brian says they will be more durable and easier to build to very close tolerances.

 

[Jkdubz808]

Hey Brian, if you are still monitoring this thread I got a question. The website says the blades will be aluminum (minus the bulb of course). Is that true? if so, why not go with carbon or glass and why aluminum? Also, if one gets the club version, will it be relatively easy to convert it to the SS version down the road? Or vice versa if you wanna go back to the CS version?

Yes, conversion between CS and SS will be trivial in both directions. All boats will be CS, and the SS will be designed as an upgrade option. The only thing special is that support for the SS features is designed and engineered in from the start.

re: alum blades, Brian says they will be more durable and easier to build to very close tolerances.

Thanks for the reply. Any word on the rudder being one piece or a cassette style?

 

[Schoonerman]

Good Luck on the new project Brian. Godspeed through development and bring one West sometime so we can go play in the breeze.

Thanks for explaining the one-design concept. Nice idea.

Open SailMakers Rule I suppose?

Any ideas on price and equipment?

 

[Soley]

So the sail plan on the website is the ClubSport plan right? So what would the SuperSport Sail plan look like?

According to Brian's words of wisdom above I am a bit lardy for the VX but I would love to give the SS version a go!

So how far along is the build of the prototype?

 

[ultaracer613um]

I don't think your too big soley... I'm about your size. Just think we would have to sail with a little kid.

FWIW, I currently own two vipes.. write a newsletter for our area and do a lot of fleet promotion. I think the vx will be a nice concept for sailing a bit shorter than you do on the viper and am excited to see the final product. I do a lot of short hand sailing on the weekdays, sometimes with my son or other kids that are learning to sail. Good chance ill end up with one of these for that purpose.

Advocate.... I've always thought your posts sensible and constructive. I believe you might be off base in your position relative the vx. Rondar, our builder has something similar they market. Why would we be upset at a designer for coming up with a two person sportboat and not our builder for using theirs? Or the Rondar reps who sell them. I think schooner has a demo k6 heading to the east coast. Why? Because its a different market.

In fact, if the vx puts a hurt on k6 sales like I think it will there's a good chance we will be able to get vipes delivered and serviced quicker. Not to mention masts might become a bit more fluid as the k6 and viper share a similar section.

 

[Brian Bennett]

Hey Soley,

The molds will be ready to produce the first prototype early May, and sailing June. We will be in Newport as part of the tour, and would love to have you come give us your impressions.

Best R, Brian

So the sail plan on the website is the ClubSport plan right? So what would the SuperSport Sail plan look like?

According to Brian's words of wisdom above I am a bit lardy for the VX but I would love to give the SS version a go!

So how far along is the build of the prototype?

 

[Brian Bennett]

Thanks H.A.

There will be an extensive testing program on the foils. The Prototype will be set up to test various iterations with a removable 4 point keel guide system. The Aluminum keel foil is a 300 mm CL and is gusseted to allow for an engineered fixing system. We are sensitive to the stalling issues, and will be paying very close attention to low speed situations.

Some folks have commented about using a "T" keel. Yes, they are very cool, but we have discounted this as the option is expensive, and a weed knife would add cost and complication. The L keel may not have the ultimate performance but certainly easier to "sweep"in the event of finding weeds. The performance losses in this size boat are minuscule. Additionally, the L keel can be uplifted from the spreader root strop, as the load line geometry works well. This is simple and effective.

We are testing a number of rudder foils and operation systems including fixed and cartridge and will have more information on the website shortly.

Thanks for your input.

Brian

l

Outside observations-

The Aluminum keel will be less expensive to manufacture than conventional types.

There will be an initial extrusion die investment cost, but much lower labor costs in the build shop.

Probably made from 6061 tempered to T6 level.

It could be extruded with two thru holes running the full length.

Then stainless bars would tie the bulb directly to the top plate.

Brian,

Just make sure there is enough cord depth to avoid stalling in light air.

It is better to be on the safe side.

Some of the keel drawings seen on these pages have insane aspect ratios.

A kick-up or retracting rudder might be a good feature.

 

[sailfastliveslow]

Brian, we're just glad to see something so cool built in the U.S. of A.

 

[SKIDsailDESIGN]

Which sportsboat do you sail on again?

Until you do, why dont you just shut up?

At this very moment I am concentrating on an offshore program and having a break from sportsboats, as I cant sail on as much as I used to and help my partner with her paralympic campaign at the same time.

In the past I have sailed on designs such as; Elliot 770, Elliot 780, Elliot 7 FD, Elliot ESPX, Thompson 7, Thompson 750, Costin 7, Sports 8 plus some others I cant remember.

I am look towards buying a 2-3 person sportsboat after the campaign for us to sail and have discussed with Dan Tucker the possibility of installing a transfer bar so that Rach can sail it. I am looking forward to making it to Miami OCR and the worlds as I have had Viper offers for the race week just after these.

Whilst I might not be sailing a SB at the moment, how does that me any less qualified to comment? Or SW are you just doing your usual internet troll thing of finding what I post and being negative towards it. The pattern continues...

Back Off legend, we are all so in ore of everthing you do, so go OFF and do what you do. No mirror's in you place.

 

[The Advocate]

Which sportsboat do you sail on again?

Until you do, why dont you just shut up?

At this very moment I am concentrating on an offshore program and having a break from sportsboats, as I cant sail on as much as I used to and help my partner with her paralympic campaign at the same time.

In the past I have sailed on designs such as; Elliot 770, Elliot 780, Elliot 7 FD, Elliot ESPX, Thompson 7, Thompson 750, Costin 7, Sports 8 plus some others I cant remember.

I am look towards buying a 2-3 person sportsboat after the campaign for us to sail and have discussed with Dan Tucker the possibility of installing a transfer bar so that Rach can sail it. I am looking forward to making it to Miami OCR and the worlds as I have had Viper offers for the race week just after these.

Whilst I might not be sailing a SB at the moment, how does that me any less qualified to comment? Or SW are you just doing your usual internet troll thing of finding what I post and being negative towards it. The pattern continues...

Back Off legend, we are all so in ore of everthing you do, so go OFF and do what you do. No mirror's in you place.

Never claimed to be a legend, was just responding to a question, what's it got to do with you?

 

[onedesignj80]

WOW !!!!!!!

This should be good. I am getting out the popcorn and Dr. Pepper. This is going to be fun to watch the Viper Fleet split on this one and bash it's self.

I see it's already started!!!!

 

[EYESAILOR]

Hello Eyesailor.

The new boat is the VX One design, not the VX 19. There is also a poison gas call VX, amoungst other VX things, but only 1 VX One design, Is this OK with you?

Have a great weekend.

Brian

I wonder if Brian Bennett knows that Kenner already makes a boat in the US called a VX19

But but but perhaps it should be called the VX Two design? Since there are two versions.

Brian, jest messing with ya.

Seriously though, I really recommend some transparency and honest to god competition between Viper and VX. What did Advocate call it? Underarm bowling! I have no idea what that means. But one is left with a vague discomfort about the whats going on. Each boat usually has its passionate advocates and the Vipers are usually especially passionate.

At the Stonnington demo, the Viper and the K6 were open and straightforward competitors. Nothing wrong with that. I sailed both. Listened to both stories. Voted for another boat for personal preferance reasons. Nobody was paying Jim to be nice about the Viper and nobody was paying the Viper guys to be nice about the K6. It felt like everyone from each class was being straight shooters and we were getting the scoop. The exception was Brian because he was theoretically representing both boats,clearly biased towards the Viper but was in awkward position because he couldn't give his real opinion.

I'm open to trying the VX one and a half design. Looking forward to it. Looking forward to blunt and frank comparisions with the others 20s. I hope opinions and comparisons aren't compromised because of something that I dont know about.

 

[superg]

WOW !!!!!!!

This should be good. I am getting out the popcorn and Dr. Pepper. This is going to be fun to watch the Viper Fleet split on this one and bash it's self.

I see it's already started!!!!

Seems like the only bashing is from non-Viper, non-sportboat owners trying to stir up drama. Brian's involvement in two distinctly different boats isn't much drama.

Viper is a hiking, planing keelboat. VX is a hiking/trap dinghy with much higher SA/D and a tiny bulb. VX may appeal to some moving up from dinghy who want light weight. I am guessing from the specs the VX will not pass the EU self-righting test, so they may do a little more swimming.

 

[The Advocate]

Hello Eyesailor.

The new boat is the VX One design, not the VX 19. There is also a poison gas call VX, amoungst other VX things, but only 1 VX One design, Is this OK with you?

Have a great weekend.

Brian

I wonder if Brian Bennett knows that Kenner already makes a boat in the US called a VX19

But but but perhaps it should be called the VX Two design? Since there are two versions.

Brian, jest messing with ya.

Seriously though, I really recommend some transparency and honest to god competition between Viper and VX. What did Advocate call it? Underarm bowling! I have no idea what that means. But one is left with a vague discomfort about the whats going on. Each boat usually has its passionate advocates and the Vipers are usually especially passionate.

At the Stonnington demo, the Viper and the K6 were open and straightforward competitors. Nothing wrong with that. I sailed both. Listened to both stories. Voted for another boat for personal preferance reasons. Nobody was paying Jim to be nice about the Viper and nobody was paying the Viper guys to be nice about the K6. It felt like everyone from each class was being straight shooters and we were getting the scoop. The exception was Brian because he was theoretically representing both boats,clearly biased towards the Viper but was in awkward position because he couldn't give his real opinion.

I'm open to trying the VX one and a half design. Looking forward to it. Looking forward to blunt and frank comparisions with the others 20s. I hope opinions and comparisons aren't compromised because of something that I dont know about.

Oh thank you.

As previously stated I will be in the market for one of these boats. I have done a shit load of sailing with my girl in the SKUD, and we want to sail something decent after the campaign.

I just want some honesty about it, and am trying to get it all out there so I know what I might be buying into in the future.

Is due diligence so wrong about buying into a class, either this year or next so wrong?

Have been caned for raising issues I have, so am already shying away from the VX, as stated earlier, Dan Tucker has been awesome in helping me overcome our issues (my disabled partner) with the Viper, but am also looking at the K6 cause of its layout.

EYE SAILOR, my comment about under arm bowling, Brian would understand. Was all about a cricket game Australia won against NZ cause we bowled the last ball under arm, along the ground. Not illegal in the game at the time, but not one of our proudest moments. Kiwis have hated us for it ever since. Was really clever, but not right.

 

[Jkdubz808]

I'd say Brian is being pretty honest about it, all the info is out there for the masses to review. Don't think he is hiding anything.

Looks like a fun boat, and it has moved to the top of my list for possible boats in the future....especially with it being built here in the US.

 

[Schoonerman]

Hey Soley,

The molds will be ready to produce the first prototype early May, and sailing June. We will be in Newport as part of the tour, and would love to have you come give us your impressions.

Best R, Brian

So the sail plan on the website is the ClubSport plan right? So what would the SuperSport Sail plan look like?

According to Brian's words of wisdom above I am a bit lardy for the VX but I would love to give the SS version a go!

So how far along is the build of the prototype?

How about a quick trip to the SA regatta at the end of Sept Brian. Be great to see you.