Burning This Bitch Down, Part III

Burning Man

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So was driving back from the beach in Socal yesterday and listened to some podcasts on the way home to pass the time. I came across an interesting Fresh Air interview of Tim Miller, a former GOP operative who wrote a book on how he and other enabled trumplecuntskin's rise to power. It's worth a listen if you've got 45 min. Or read the transcript.

However, what I found most interesting was right at the very end of the interview where they were talking about the supposed "Adults in the room" who worked for trump, but never called him out publicly while there. Ostensibly, they thought they were "saving the country" by keeping him from acting on his worst instincts. And one part in particular caught my attention:

DAVIES: You know, one rationalization for going to work for Donald Trump that you are pretty dismissive of is the argument of a lot of people who took jobs in the Trump administration that, look; it's the government. Somebody needs to run it competently. We need grown-ups in the room, somebody who can, you know, prevent some of the worst stuff from happening. And, you know, people look at the January 6 committee hearings, and you see, you know, some of these lawyers like, you know, Eric Herschmann and even Pat Cipollone who, in critical moments when Trump wanted to seize voting machines and appoint, you know, Jeffrey Clark attorney general, put their feet down. What about that argument? I mean, would it sound like, in some cases, people there made a difference?

MILLER: Yeah. We could do a whole two hours about this, and if people want to hear this debate back and forth, I have a whole chapter with Alyssa Farah, who was the communications director for Trump in the end who kind of took that job reluctantly and now has gone full anti-Trump based on his behavior after the election. And we debate this question back and forth. But in short, my view is that anybody who really thought they went in to, quote-unquote, "save the country" - there was this group called the Committee to Save America, you know, which was, you know, John Kelly et al. who said they were - you know, we need responsible people in here. We don't like this guy, but we need good people. None of the members of the, quote, unquote, "Committee to Save America" tried to save America when there were only two choices on the ballot, Joe Biden and Donald Trump. None of them endorsed Joe Biden.

I worked for a group called Republican Voters Against Trump, where we recruited people to make videos opposing Donald Trump. And we recruited a couple from the Trump administration. You might remember Olivia Troye, Elizabeth Neumann. And we made ads with them. But these were mid-level operatives - not to degrade them. I thought they showed great courage. But none of the top-level people did. And so my point is if you really - if that was really your reason to go in, that you cared about this country so much, that we needed good public servants, then then you would have spoken truth about what you saw before the election when we had a chance.

You know, we had a very close election last - not as close as the Trumpers want to make you think - but we had a close election, and we needed every voice possible to speak out in order to try to stop him. And I think what was revealing is that all of these people who said that they went in, you know, because they were going to be the ones that protected the country, you know, that was actually just - they were flattering themselves, right? Like that was the story that they told themselves to justify going in. But in the end, you know, they really were attracted to some of these more base reasons for going in, you know, the access to power, ambition, etc.

DAVIES: You know, I agree that the discussion with Alyssa Farah Griffin is is interesting. And in the book, she gives you a list of things that she said she did inside which made a difference - directly talk the president out of firing Mark Esper twice, convinced him not to use racist birther attack on Kamala Harris when others pushed for it, pushed him not to replace Dr. Birx with Scott Atlas on the COVID task force. What about that? I mean, you know...

MILLER: Yeah, she said she saved Stars and Stripes, even. She convinced him to send a tweet that wouldn't shut down Stars and Stripes magazine.

DAVIES: And what she says...

MILLER: OK.

DAVIES: Sorry to interrupt you. What she says, Tim, is, you know, your argument that you should that - the responsible people should not have gone in is essentially a let it burn argument, that, you know, if that's what people voted for, then let's get the worst government that Donald Trump can give us, and people will see what it's really made of, and we'll come to a reckoning sooner. Is she right?

MILLER: Yeah, it is kind of my argument. There's something to be said for that. Is there not? And we're still dealing with Donald Trump in 2022, right? Had people like Alyssa not been protecting him from his worst impulses, might there have been 17 Republicans who've had the courage to vote to impeach him the second time so we would've been done with him? You know, might the election in 2020 not have been quite as close because they would've - because voters would've seen what they - you know, what they voted in a little more clearly? I don't know. These are counterfactuals. I don't think it's a clear question.

But I just - I do reject this notion that it's up to some mid-level staffer to be the one to save the country from itself. I think that there are responsible career people who should've gone in and did their jobs. I think in national security, obviously, I give H.R. McMaster, people keeping Trump from pushing the button a pass. But I think that this justification was, like I said, flattering to a lot of people in Washington who had a lot of other reasons for going in. And, you know, I just - I don't know that Saving Stars and Stripes magazine was worth risking, you know, Donald Trump getting a second term over.

Really quickly on Alyssa, I just do want to say that that if there's any hope in this story, it's her. And we go very deep, and it gets very emotional on why she decided to, at the end, say no, finally speak out and say, I cannot do this any longer and stick with it, which is committed to doing, different than Bill Barr. And it was that she started telling herself a different story. She started saying, OK, well, as much as I thought I could save the country, clearly, I can't anymore, given his behavior after the election. And now I start thinking, what are my kids going to think if I am complicit in this in this riot at the Capitol? What are my - what are my in-laws going to think about me?

And I think that's interesting. Like, she does offer a way out for those people who had these rationalizations that became no longer operative after January 6. And I think that in a lot of ways, she's similar to a lot of people who are acting a lot worse than her right now. And I'm hoping that her story can maybe be a little bit of an offramp for certain folks as we unfortunately look ahead to maybe having to deal with this monster one more time.

I honestly thought that is exactly what would happen back in 2016 with my BTBD. That trump would be trump and even people who voted for him would recoil in horror. The problem is we had people in the WH, in congress and in gov't doing their best to hide from the public his actual true nature. And that was on top of foxy neuse's best efforts to MADA**.















** MADA = Make America Dumb Again
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,292
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Eastern NC
So was driving back from the beach in Socal yesterday and listened to some podcasts on the way home to pass the time. I came across an interesting Fresh Air interview of Tim Miller, a former GOP operative who wrote a book on how he and other enabled trumplecuntskin's rise to power. It's worth a listen if you've got 45 min. Or read the transcript.

However, what I found most interesting was right at the very end of the interview where they were talking about the supposed "Adults in the room" who worked for trump, but never called him out publicly while there. Ostensibly, they thought they were "saving the country" by keeping him from acting on his worst instincts. And one part in particular caught my attention:



I honestly thought that is exactly what would happen back in 2016 with my BTBD. That trump would be trump and even people who voted for him would recoil in horror. The problem is we had people in the WH, in congress and in gov't doing their best to hide from the public his actual true nature. And that was on top of foxy neuse's best efforts to MADA**.















** MADA = Make America Dumb Again


Trumpalos are immune to recoiling in horror.

First, they simply are too dumb. When told "Trump has gutted the EPA so now air pollution is going to bring on a new era of lung cancer, emphysema, and acid rain" they will say "hahahaha suck it you libtard faggot, I don't give a shit about the environment." Or whatever disaster he has caused, same answer. If it makes a liberal mad, they love it.

Second, they're gullible as shit. Trump says "Nobody is tougher on Russia than me!" and the actual fact that he tried to stop all aid to Ukraine as a favor to Putin, whom he met with in secret with no American in the room at least 5 times, and guess what, they believe Trump.

3rd they're not paying attention. They only know what Foxy News (OAN, Epoch, etc) told them a couple hours ago, and forgot what they were told yesterday (see point 1)

How the USA came to be populated by such a mass of useless dumb fat cretins is something I don't understand and don't want to.
 

Burning Man

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Back to the desert
Trumpalos are immune to recoiling in horror.

First, they simply are too dumb. When told "Trump has gutted the EPA so now air pollution is going to bring on a new era of lung cancer, emphysema, and acid rain" they will say "hahahaha suck it you libtard faggot, I don't give a shit about the environment." Or whatever disaster he has caused, same answer. If it makes a liberal mad, they love it.

Second, they're gullible as shit. Trump says "Nobody is tougher on Russia than me!" and the actual fact that he tried to stop all aid to Ukraine as a favor to Putin, whom he met with in secret with no American in the room at least 5 times, and guess what, they believe Trump.

3rd they're not paying attention. They only know what Foxy News (OAN, Epoch, etc) told them a couple hours ago, and forgot what they were told yesterday (see point 1)

How the USA came to be populated by such a mass of useless dumb fat cretins is something I don't understand and don't want to.

I agree with you to a point that the hardcore magas are like that. But the Hardcore MAGAs were not the only ones who voted for him in both 2020 and 2016. As the author said, had you been able to peel away the sorta, tepid lukewarm trumpers away by showing the depths of how bad he was - I think the 2020 vote would have been even more lopsided than it was. Those folks respected people like Gen Kelly, Mattis, Bolton, et al. Their voice would have carried some weight had they spoken out earlier. Those people fighting the fire from inside likely kept the bitch from burning down long ago and we might have been rid of this cunt, and more importantly his movement, once and for all.

I think there is a strong case to be made for letting the Bitch Burn down rather than trying to tamp out the flames. As the author said.... we would have then seen the real monster he is/was back then.
 

Burning Man

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SloopJonB

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I honestly thought that is exactly what would happen back in 2016 with my BTBD. That trump would be trump and even people who voted for him would recoil in horror. The problem is we had people in the WH, in congress and in gov't doing their best to hide from the public his actual true nature. And that was on top of foxy neuse's best efforts to MADA**.
Well, you're learning - better late than never I suppose.

Why TF do you think so many of us called you a moron back then for your "Burn" attitude?

Unlike you, we knew that what happened could happen.

Any sort of radical action like BTBD only has one possible result - and America is suffering it.

You need to read some history - not just of America - to learn about that sort of thing.
 

Burning Man

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Well, you're learning - better late than never I suppose.

Why TF do you think so many of us called you a moron back then for your "Burn" attitude?

Unlike you, we knew that what happened could happen.

Any sort of radical action like BTBD only has one possible result - and America is suffering it.

You need to read some history - not just of America - to learn about that sort of thing.
You seem to have a reading comprehension block of some sort. I frankly don't think the Bitch has Burned enough. Remember, the "Bitch" is the GOP, not America for those of you not paying attention.
 

Steam Flyer

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In fact I still maintain that those who didn't invoke the 25th Amendment were criminally derelict in their duty to the Constitution.

Completely agree.
But their duty to Trump and to their own greed and ambition, plus their fear of whatever Trump is holding over them, made them act otherwise.
 

Olsonist

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In fact I still maintain that those who didn't invoke the 25th Amendment were criminally derelict in their duty to the Constitution.

Ok, so let's take Betsy DeVos (Erick Prince's brother if you're keeping score at home) as an example. She didn't try to invoke the 25th. She just resigned a few days early instead (Jan 8 instead of Jan 20). She's rich. Like $5.3B rich. Why should she care about an old piece of paper and a few words she said back in 2017?

Seriously, why the fuck should she care?

Explain this to me. What were you even expecting? Do you think she did a praiseworthy job for the four years she was there and this is the only smirch on her otherwise blameless record?
 

Burning Man

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Ok, so let's take Betsy DeVos (Erick Prince's brother if you're keeping score at home) as an example. She didn't try to invoke the 25th. She just resigned a few days early instead (Jan 8 instead of Jan 20). She's rich. Like $5.3B rich. Why should she care about an old piece of paper and a few words she said back in 2017?

Seriously, why the fuck should she care?

Explain this to me. What were you even expecting? Do you think she did a praiseworthy job for the four years she was there and this is the only smirch on her otherwise blameless record?
She should care because TWO WORDS: she took a fucking oath to the "us FUCKING constitution". But I'm not really interesting in the Sec of Education, she's a cunt. I'm talking about the VP, Sec State, Sec Defense, Nat Security Advisor, etc. They should all have fucking cared!
 

Steam Flyer

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She should care because TWO WORDS: she took a fucking oath to the "us FUCKING constitution". But I'm not really interesting in the Sec of Education, she's a cunt. I'm talking about the VP, Sec State, Sec Defense, Nat Security Advisor, etc. They should all have fucking cared!

It's good that you assume people should have some degree of actual integrity and character, but the sad fact is that too many do not.

Generally, the process of rising thru leadership ranks weeds out those with none. But not in the current Republican Party, and I have doubts about how effective the Democratic Party is.
 

Olsonist

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She should care because TWO WORDS: she took a fucking oath to the "us FUCKING constitution". But I'm not really interesting in the Sec of Education, she's a cunt. I'm talking about the VP, Sec State, Sec Defense, Nat Security Advisor, etc. They should all have fucking cared!

Sorry, they didn't. They didn't on day one and they didn't on their last day. They still don't.
Hell, the National Security Advisor was talking to the Russians and working for the Turks.

They really didn't care.

Should's got nothing to do with it.
 
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Lark

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I’ve gotten one local Trumper to grudgingly acknowledge IN THEORY the EPA may do some good. I reminded him the burn pits he blames for his poor health are prohibited by the agencies he hates in the civilian world, but used by the only agency he approves of (though they allow black men to serve in capacity other than mess stewards. Truman’s integration was proof Dems were always bad).
 

Burning Man

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Sorry, they didn't. They didn't on day one and they didn't on their last day. They still don't.
Hell, the National Security Advisor was talking to the Russians and working for the Turks.

They really didn't care.

Should's got nothing to do with it.
Shoulda should have EVERYTHING to do with it. The only reason THEY don’t care is because the majority of the people like you don’t care and just accept that’s the way it is.

Sorry. I don’t accept that. Our politicians are nothing more than a reflection of the voters. We get what we deserve.
 




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