but wait, there's more!

[longy]

I will accept that the original weight was in error - but this re-enforces my statement that the measurement protocol is sloppy. As important as this weight is to the rating, that's a large error
IF I was the owner of a new build TP52 facing measurement, I'd want to see the latest calibration/certification of the measuring devices and that they were highly accurate for the expected values
I got burned once by an IOR measurer who did things at odds with everyone else - I learned the system & (politely) watched (and questioned) all further measurements I was involved with

 

[The Dark Knight]

Why did they accept the ORCI trophy, knowing that they broke the rules?

When did they accept the trophy and when was it confirmed that the photographed sail configuration was illegal under ORCi?

 

[The Dark Knight]

No you dense fucking retard. The boat weighed MORE than it was supposed to (based on some older and outdated measurement).

So they REMOVED weight and had it it remeasured.

When you take a Med TP and set it up for offshore, it’s going to gain weight. My God you are a dumb little twat.

Please don’t offend “dumb little twats”, they don’t deserve to be likened to that fucktard.

 

[The Dark Knight]

I will accept that the original weight was in error - but this re-enforces my statement that the measurement protocol is sloppy. As important as this weight is to the rating, that's a large error
IF I was the owner of a new build TP52 facing measurement, I'd want to see the latest calibration/certification of the measuring devices and that they were highly accurate for the expected values
I got burned once by an IOR measurer who did things at odds with everyone else - I learned the system & (politely) watched (and questioned) all further measurements I was involved with

No error was mentioned. The original inshore weight was probably correct.

TP52’s converted to offshore gain twin wheel helms, HF radios, reefable booms, probably stiffening and other things that perhaps easily add 200kg

 

[Goodvibes]

No error was mentioned. The original inshore weight was probably correct.

TP52’s converted to offshore gain twin wheel helms, HF radios, reefable booms, probably stiffening and other things that perhaps easily add 200kg

So that means that the previous owners were cheating?

I mean everyone knows that it could add 200kgs right. Great governance around IRC, you can trust it.

EDIT: so is it possible that other boats in the fleet are sailing off outdated lighter certificates?

 

[Hitchhiker]

So that means that the previous owners were cheating?

I mean everyone knows that it could add 200kgs right. Great governance around IRC, you can trust it.

EDIT: so is it possible that other boats in the fleet are sailing off outdated lighter certificates?

None of your writing makes any sense. Basically you are wrong. It is likely time for you to stop posting on the front page.

If the big money guys have a problem with Celestial’s win. They’ll sort it out in the appropriate channels.

Your repeated bleating like a sheep is amounting to nought.

I’m getting hungry for lamb roast.

 

[Goodvibes]

None of your writing makes any sense. Basically you are wrong.

So celestial was 'optimised' for off shore, but not remeasured? How can that be in a well managed 'Class'?

 

[Goodvibes]

If the big money guys have a problem with Celestial’s win. They’ll sort it out in the appropriate channels.

I thought the sport was governed by Authorities, now you are telling me that big money does?

 

[longy]

"Class' has nothing to do with this. Owner/boat manager who oversaw all this work should have scheduled re-measurement after work was completed. Owner raced with wrong (too high) rating for (9?) yrs. Could be why the boat was sold - didn't feel it was competitive?

 

[Recidivist]

If I was an owner, I’d be embarrassed to enter a boat with two ratings. To me, it seems pathetically weak, like you are begging for a trophy. Right now, as best I can figure, Celestial chested. That’s the way the story plays to the casual observer. I fail to see how cheating in one rule makes it ok to be scored in any aspect of the race using another rule. It’s a stupid way to run a race, and the sport.

And once again you reinforce why nobody takes any notice of your posts.
Sorry to break it to you ...

Feel free to tell me to fuck off when you beat Celestial on ANY handicap system.

 

[JonRowe]

Weight discrepancy was explained by Jack Macartney in an actual piece of journalism at Sail-World published January 2: "I joined Celestial in 2019, and the boat had never been weighed since new. I said to Sam that I want to remeasure the boat and try and get the rating better than where we were. I felt we were rated very high for a 2011 boat, and although 12 years old since build, we had one of the highest ratings. So we weighed the boat, and discovered that it was heavier than thought. We went to J/V and they said, well, you should take a couple of hundred kilos out of the bulb. The boat's got so much form stability in the hull shape. Ordinarily I would not go for a big change, especially close to a race, but they were insistent. So we did it."

The boat has been carrying 69xxkg on its rating certificates when it actually weighed 71xxkg. Look around the TP52 fleet, it is perfectly normal for the boats to weight between 69xxkg and 71xxkg. When they worked it out they took a couple hundred kilos out of the bulb on the advice of the designer. Where's the conspiracy?

Thanks for finding the quote! I was trying to find this the other day when someone asked about the weight discrepency https://www.sail-world.com/news/257291/Metaphors-run-thick-and-deep for everyone else.

 

[Snowden]

EDIT: so is it possible that other boats in the fleet are sailing off outdated lighter certificates?

I think that's highly probable for the fleet in general. Boats tend to get fat over time as people install more hardware, cores get soggy, layers of paint etc. Less probable for a high budget team, but even so, weighing is a pain in the arse.

Standard piece of advice for IRC optimisation is "weigh the boat". More often than not you lose a pip or two because it's overweight versus the manufacturer's catalogue.

 

[sunseeker]

And once again you reinforce why nobody takes any notice of your posts.
Sorry to break it to you ...

Feel free to tell me to fuck off when you beat Celestial on ANY handicap system.

I won’t be racing against Celestial, no interest in sailing in that sort of racing in those kind of boats.

This whole issue has become so fuzzy, from the outside it sure looks like they cheated.

You tough Aussie cunts sure have thick heads and thin skin.

 

[Hitchhiker]

I thought the sport was governed by Authorities, now you are telling me that big money does?

Idiot. It takes big money to run those 52 campaigns. You think Sheehan shipped his boat to Aus for pocket money?

 

[Goodvibes]

Idiot. It takes big money to run those 52 campaigns. You think Sheehan shipped his boat to Aus for pocket money?

OK, sounds fair, because I don't own a 52, I didn't know that he who spends the most runs the place. Just can't find that in the rules.

 

[Hitchhiker]

OK, sounds fair, because I don't own a 52, I didn't know that he who spends the most runs the place. Just can't find that in the rules.

Look. I understand your need to twist things around to suit your narrative. However, it seems highly likely, to me at least, that if Haynes' competition were really concerned about a significant discrepancy between Celestials IRC certificate and actual measurements, at least one would have taken action. None have, so far.

As best as I can tell, the only person keeping this going is Anarchist David. Oh and maybe the whinging pom.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Look. I understand your need to twist things around to suit your narrative. However, it seems highly likely, to me at least, that if Haynes' competition were really concerned about a significant discrepancy between Celestials IRC certificate and actual measurements, at least one would have taken action. None have, so far.

As best as I can tell, the only person keeping this going is Anarchist David. Oh and maybe the whinging pom.

Random loves a good conspiracy, like his dancing jews on 9/11.

I'm surprised he isn't an "one world government conspiracy" anti-vaxer. It's right up his alley.

 

[Goodvibes]

if Haynes' competition were really concerned about a significant discrepancy between Celestials IRC certificate and actual measurements, at least one would have taken action. None have, so far.

OK, so for the Event, the protest window closed a moon ago. So that leave R 69 as the only option they have, and no one is going to do that.

So what actions could they take if they were still 'concerned'? I don't see any that would make a difference.

 

[Reference]

Why did they take away the down-vote button? Badly needed here…

 

[duncan (the other one)]

No you dense fucking retard. The boat weighed MORE than it was supposed to, per some older and outdated measurement.

So they REMOVED weight and had it it remeasured.

When you take a Med TP and set it up for offshore, it’s going to gain weight. My God you are a dumb little twat.

this is bullshit.

2019 - the boat had a new rig, foil and bulb. Was measured.

The question, as it always has been, is why was that 2019 displacement number was so out of whack (3%) that they could lop off ~200kg and only lose 60-ish on the weight in 2022 ?

The issue is measurement integrity (and trust), not competitor integrity.

(and do you honestly think a serious competitor would mod a boat for offshore - adding weight - without having a re-weigh? You're dreaming).