but wait, there's more!

[treef]

Question on this statement from Sam Haynes on 24 January:

“Celestial was weighed, with seven other IRC yachts in early December (after the Cabbage Tree Island Race). The measurement process included weighing the bulb."

Should be simple to determine if the bulb was removed and weighed separately—would that not clear this matter up?

Or, did Haynes sign off on one of the other two processes per the IRC measurement manual (designer/builder declaration or volume measurement)? If that's the case, then his statement reads like a misdirection.

 

[Chimp too]

IRC penalises boats for being light and also penalises boats for having heavy bulbs. If you're certificate says you're 69xxkg but your boat is actually 71xxkg then you're carrying a penalty in your rating that you don't need. If you had the boat reweighed and discovered this you could rerate the boat at the higher displacement and shave a bit off your handicap. Alternatively, you could make your boat weigh 69xxkg by removing weight from the bulb which would also shave some points off your handicap. If you were trying to win a downwind race the latter is helpful.

Rating rules generally don’t penalise you for being lighter, they try and fairly adjust the rating relative to the performance improvement.

 

[Snowden]

Should be simple to determine if the bulb was removed and weighed separately—would that not clear this matter up?

There is a bulb weight estimation process approved by IRC that can be conducted with the bulb attached (based on volume displaced and the density of lead)

 

[treef]

There is a bulb weight estimation process approved by IRC that can be conducted with the bulb attached (based on volume displaced and the density of lead)

That's my point. That's estimating. Sam Haynes used the word "weighing." The former has a margin of error; the latter does not. Which one was it?

Why would Haynes claim the bulb was weighed, if it was not? I don't have a dog in this hunt, but that smacks of intentional obfuscation to me.

 

[Snowden]

That's my point. That's estimating. Sam Haynes used the word "weighing." The former has a margin of error; the latter does not. Which one was it?

Why would Haynes claim the bulb was weighed, if it was not? I don't have a dog in this hunt, but that smacks of intentional obfuscation to me.

Because one of his yard crew said “yes skip, we got the new bulb weight” and he’s too busy earning the millions you need to run a TP campaign to engage with what that precisely means?

Way too much is being read into a throwaway comment.

 

[Goodvibes]

"Hey Skip ... we got the new forecast, it's all down hill!"

And about throw away comments? There are none in cases like this.

The sport loves the attention of a win, but start digging and everyone, I mean everyone clams up immediately, because they know the bullshit that could be uncovered.

I have used the example before, no Cops on the streets, do you think everyone will obey the speed limits? Well IRC is like that, no Cops. Sad that the only way to have some action is when photographic evidence of cheating is sent around the world.

Pretty fucking hard to get a photograph of the other issues many people are concerned about.

 

[Goodvibes]

If you're certificate says you're 69xxkg but your boat is actually 71xxkg then

The point here is that there is no evidence that it was 71xxkg after 2019. None.

See the records above.

 

[patrese]

Ahh... where in an ORC cert can I find "bulb weight"? As we have stab. tests it even isn't necessary...boat weight could be weighted or calculated from flotation data but the rest is calculation..

 

[Goodvibes]

In this case it sounds as if the weighing of the boat prior to modifying the bulb was like 7150kg. Then modified. The weighed again at 69##kg.

I really don't know why this is so hard.

1. The boat was never more than 7000 kgs after 2019, no records of that at all. Several weighings confirm that.
2. So why was over 230kg removed from the bulb at the last minute?
3. Why did the crew member who organised the change, give an account that does not appear to match the official records?

The conclusion have come to is that posters here, and the sport in general are deliberately talking around these questions. Ostriches?

 

[The Dark Knight]

I really don't know why this is so hard.

1. The boat was never more than 7000 kgs after 2019, no records of that at all. Several weighings confirm that.
2. So why was over 230kg removed from the bulb at the last minute?

So please detail the the dates and weight from the so-called “several weighings”

Why, to make the boat more competitive as recommended by the designers. That it was done last minute is irrelevant as it was measured, rerated and the rating presented to the RO in sufficient time.

 

[dchs89]

No one upset at Celestial's IRC rating for the Brisbane to Gladstone?