Buying advice for 30' Performance boat? (Great Lakes Sailing)

[djdsails]

I sail my FT10 with varying crew skill sets and crew numbers, double hand to fully crewed no more than 6 crew. Yes more crew is better but As long as the power is managed and boat gets the slight sail adjustments it needs it will reward you greatly!
Very simple to launch, rig, sail, trailer, and if you listen to the boat - sail.
Well built and stiff boat. Went through survey and passed with flying colors.

As far as rudder issues, the issue is with the cassette that the rudder lives in. Previous owner got a replacement due to not feeling comfortable with the original - original looks bad and needs a rebuild. Current one I have looks good. It’s a steel and fiber glass build so the different materials don’t like being together hence the gelcoat cracking. The steel will warn you before total cassette failure. Have not experienced any rudder issues with regards to flexing plenty of control in 20kt breeze.

full disclosure mine is for sale:

Flying Tiger 10m

Located in Eastern Connecticut For sale is a well taken care of Flying Tiger 10m, a Bob Perry design. I am the second meticulous owner. Fast, fun, rigid, and rewarding.

sailinganarchy.com

 

[us28770]

Farr did an analysis for the sprit conversion of the 30 and recommends a 6ft length. We did a custom carbon sprit to that dimension and raced against one-design configured F30s with identical downwind VMG, but easier handling and more tactical options due to the wider angles.
In light conditions we race with 4-5 folks, around 10kn and above you need 7 for weight.
The boat is way more fun in the sprit configuration, and highly competitive under ORC. Second advantage is we could build in two tack lines - one at the tip for the assy, and one ⅔ rds out for a code 0. That makes the boat perform great reaching in distance races.
We have a good local FT10 fleet (San Diego), and very similar speed potential as them.
Reg. finding a boat - find a McDell or Ovington hull, stay away from Carroll. The sprit conversion will run about 5-6K (without sails), so if you can find a converted one you'll save some money.
The boat was ahead of its time at launch, and is still a great design to go racing, especially with the sprit conversion.
Yellow kite below (A-1.5):

 

[jimnew]

Sounds like maybe an Evelyn 32-2 might fit your needs. PHRF is 97-101, equipped with Asymm or Symm, inboard Yanmar engine, full set of racing sails, Jibs - light and heavy #1, and #2, and #3. This is a boat you can grow into provided you have some constancy in your crew. I'll sell you mine ( boat that is ), if you're interested.
JSN

 

[jonesatl]

So I'm a young guy with a fair bit of experience ranging from high performance catamarans to Farr 40s, and a variety in between. In the coming years, I'm looking to purchase a performance/sportboat to race on The Great Lakes (primarily Lake Michigan.) Currently, I have 2 friends the same age looking to get involved in boat ownership and racing.

30 footers appear to be the best value (both in $$ and in performance,) and considering a buoy/offshore combination, there seems to be quite a divide between options.

Rating and value are important in the buying decision, so naturally my young & dumb attitude has led me toward FT10s and Henderson 30s. Given their specs, they'd be great in light-med winds but can be a pain in high winds and quite a liability offshore (if you don't have the crew experience + weight to match.)

Olson 29s & 30s are always a viable option, but I'm looking for something with an Asymmetrical kite that a team and myself can really grow into performance wise. (I imagine saying O30s aren't performance boats will upset a few of you...)
Hobie 33s are a familiar friend, but they're a bit old and their rating isn't very attractive.

Melges 32s are off the table due to the OD prices...
Mumm 30s are viable too, but in spirit of avoiding the symmetrical spins and beefy crew requirements, I'd like to avoid them.

We're budgeting $25-$45k for an initial purchase, but expect to spend $10-15k within the first year of ownership on new sails, rigging, etc... It's never easy when a sailor wants to go fast on a budget..

Crew is always hard to find, but we expect to have 4-5 consistently. Offshore we'd hope to go no higher than 8 dependent on conditions. This obviously makes the buying decision harder, but that's why I'm here!

Great Lakes conditions are a real issue too, as the conditions vary drastically..

My family has a nice FT10 that is begging for a new home. A new owner that will enjoy her and have the same fast sailing fun we have had with her. It's hull #35 QMN, won the FT10 Nationals in Pensacola Bay some years back. It would need the rudder fix but aside form that boat is in fine shape. Has been out of water sadly longing to be sailed for 4-5 years now. No worries on the mast in the sun. As the boat sits in the yard the mast, lines, sails, and all gear sits in a basement so carbon fiber is protected. It just needs someone who wants to sail and have fun!

I've been on this boat in 15 knots downwind doing 17. It's fast! It can do offshore. Ours did the Key West run and held up in quite windy conditions. Once winds hit 14 plus knots you do want some folks on board for rail meat. They are great boats and you could make this one all yours with some TLC. Message me or email me @ [email protected]. Love to share some more pictures and information with you. Good luck.

 

[bully_circus]

Biased here - but the refurb of the Farr 30 into a Farr 30 Evo (Turbo) is pretty easy. Great boat. I can share anything you need to know!

Hopefully we'll also get the FAST 30 (https://www.FAST30Sailing.org) class off the ground in 2023 in the North East to start.

 

[Sailor Sam2]

While many great vessels have been mentioned here, and while many of them have great attributes, one not mentioned is the 1984 J-30.
A capable crew of 3 with sailing skill can sail them at speeds up to 20 knots, as can be seen in Youtube videos.
They are superior vessels in extremely heavy weather. Two of them that were entered easily survived the historic infamous Fastnet race decades ago without a problem or a scratch. One of them was being solo sailed and the other had a crew total of 2 sailing it.
The very capable skipper I sold our 1984 J-30 to (after 11 years of our use) sailed it back to Great Britain with him the very next week. While the F28 is a great fast Fun boat which I would like to own, I doubt you can cross oceans in it or would want to be on it far from shore in some of the very nasty storms that can pop up on the Great Lake..
PS: During the 11 years we owned it we hit hard packed sand/gravel bottom at least 3 times sailing it at between 7 and 9 knots without any keel damage, or keel joint separation, just some to our nerves looking up at the shaking rig.
The more crew weight we add, the deeper they all sit in the water and the slower they all sail. A crew of 3 adds 600 pounds, crew of 5 adds 1,000 pounds, crew of 8 adds 1,600 pounds. If you want to sail faster, reduce the weight aboard and reduce drag through the water.
Sailing fast and sailing safely is mostly about finding the best skipper and crew. Just as the best golfer is about the man, not the equipment he uses.

 

[cbowne]

So I'm a young guy with a fair bit of experience ranging from high performance catamarans to Farr 40s, and a variety in between. In the coming years, I'm looking to purchase a performance/sportboat to race on The Great Lakes (primarily Lake Michigan.) Currently, I have 2 friends the same age looking to get involved in boat ownership and racing.

30 footers appear to be the best value (both in $$ and in performance,) and considering a buoy/offshore combination, there seems to be quite a divide between options.

Rating and value are important in the buying decision, so naturally my young & dumb attitude has led me toward FT10s and Henderson 30s. Given their specs, they'd be great in light-med winds but can be a pain in high winds and quite a liability offshore (if you don't have the crew experience + weight to match.)

Olson 29s & 30s are always a viable option, but I'm looking for something with an Asymmetrical kite that a team and myself can really grow into performance wise. (I imagine saying O30s aren't performance boats will upset a few of you...)
Hobie 33s are a familiar friend, but they're a bit old and their rating isn't very attractive.

Melges 32s are off the table due to the OD prices...
Mumm 30s are viable too, but in spirit of avoiding the symmetrical spins and beefy crew requirements, I'd like to avoid them.

We're budgeting $25-$45k for an initial purchase, but expect to spend $10-15k within the first year of ownership on new sails, rigging, etc... It's never easy when a sailor wants to go fast on a budget..

Crew is always hard to find, but we expect to have 4-5 consistently. Offshore we'd hope to go no higher than 8 dependent on conditions. This obviously makes the buying decision harder, but that's why I'm here!

Great Lakes conditions are a real issue too, as the conditions vary drastically..

So I'm a young guy with a fair bit of experience ranging from high performance catamarans to Farr 40s, and a variety in between. In the coming years, I'm looking to purchase a performance/sportboat to race on The Great Lakes (primarily Lake Michigan.) Currently, I have 2 friends the same age looking to get involved in boat ownership and racing.

30 footers appear to be the best value (both in $$ and in performance,) and considering a buoy/offshore combination, there seems to be quite a divide between options.

Rating and value are important in the buying decision, so naturally my young & dumb attitude has led me toward FT10s and Henderson 30s. Given their specs, they'd be great in light-med winds but can be a pain in high winds and quite a liability offshore (if you don't have the crew experience + weight to match.)

Olson 29s & 30s are always a viable option, but I'm looking for something with an Asymmetrical kite that a team and myself can really grow into performance wise. (I imagine saying O30s aren't performance boats will upset a few of you...)
Hobie 33s are a familiar friend, but they're a bit old and their rating isn't very attractive.

Melges 32s are off the table due to the OD prices...
Mumm 30s are viable too, but in spirit of avoiding the symmetrical spins and beefy crew requirements, I'd like to avoid them.

We're budgeting $25-$45k for an initial purchase, but expect to spend $10-15k within the first year of ownership on new sails, rigging, etc... It's never easy when a sailor wants to go fast on a budget..

Crew is always hard to find, but we expect to have 4-5 consistently. Offshore we'd hope to go no higher than 8 dependent on conditions. This obviously makes the buying decision harder, but that's why I'm here!

Great Lakes conditions are a real issue too, as the conditions vary drastically..

Evelyn32, got one on Lake Ontario

 

[cbowne]

You should seriously consider an Evelyn 32-2. PHRF 96. Fast boat that can easily be sailed to its rating. A light air monster, and also handles breezes well on all points of sail.

With 100%, bow sprit and asymmetrical you will rate around 100. If you sail the 155%, better get rail meat. I own one, that is my phrf-lo rating.

 

[gardener]

So I'm a young guy with a fair bit of experience ranging from high performance catamarans to Farr 40s, and a variety in between. In the coming years, I'm looking to purchase a performance/sportboat to race on The Great Lakes (primarily Lake Michigan.) Currently, I have 2 friends the same age looking to get involved in boat ownership and racing.

30 footers appear to be the best value (both in $$ and in performance,) and considering a buoy/offshore combination, there seems to be quite a divide between options.

Rating and value are important in the buying decision, so naturally my young & dumb attitude has led me toward FT10s and Henderson 30s. Given their specs, they'd be great in light-med winds but can be a pain in high winds and quite a liability offshore (if you don't have the crew experience + weight to match.)

Olson 29s & 30s are always a viable option, but I'm looking for something with an Asymmetrical kite that a team and myself can really grow into performance wise. (I imagine saying O30s aren't performance boats will upset a few of you...)
Hobie 33s are a familiar friend, but they're a bit old and their rating isn't very attractive.

Melges 32s are off the table due to the OD prices...
Mumm 30s are viable too, but in spirit of avoiding the symmetrical spins and beefy crew requirements, I'd like to avoid them.

We're budgeting $25-$45k for an initial purchase, but expect to spend $10-15k within the first year of ownership on new sails, rigging, etc... It's never easy when a sailor wants to go fast on a budget..

Crew is always hard to find, but we expect to have 4-5 consistently. Offshore we'd hope to go no higher than 8 dependent on conditions. This obviously makes the buying decision harder, but that's why I'm here!

Great Lakes conditions are a real issue too, as the conditions vary drastically..

Melges 32 is a great boat. I am fairly certain I can sell you one for a fair bit less than a Farr 30 or a cc30.

 

[gcutter]

Offshore = distance, asymm, planes, etc? Sounds like an Andrews 28 to me, just at the upper end of your price range though.
Greg

 

[solosailor]

But then again, they had a secret weapon of 1,000 litres of water ballast in wake-board boat bladders lashed to the rails that they pumped to windward with a 12 volt electric pump. Pretty damn ingenious!

Illegal in any racing outside of the R2AK. But it's been done before a lot:

MAXI MARINE - All About Water Ballast Systems - New External Water Ballast System for Sailboats

 

[Jabberwocky]

So I'm a young guy with a fair bit of experience ranging from high performance catamarans to Farr 40s, and a variety in between. In the coming years, I'm looking to purchase a performance/sportboat to race on The Great Lakes (primarily Lake Michigan.) Currently, I have 2 friends the same age looking to get involved in boat ownership and racing.

30 footers appear to be the best value (both in $$ and in performance,) and considering a buoy/offshore combination, there seems to be quite a divide between options.

Rating and value are important in the buying decision, so naturally my young & dumb attitude has led me toward FT10s and Henderson 30s. Given their specs, they'd be great in light-med winds but can be a pain in high winds and quite a liability offshore (if you don't have the crew experience + weight to match.)

Olson 29s & 30s are always a viable option, but I'm looking for something with an Asymmetrical kite that a team and myself can really grow into performance wise. (I imagine saying O30s aren't performance boats will upset a few of you...)
Hobie 33s are a familiar friend, but they're a bit old and their rating isn't very attractive.

Melges 32s are off the table due to the OD prices...
Mumm 30s are viable too, but in spirit of avoiding the symmetrical spins and beefy crew requirements, I'd like to avoid them.

We're budgeting $25-$45k for an initial purchase, but expect to spend $10-15k within the first year of ownership on new sails, rigging, etc... It's never easy when a sailor wants to go fast on a budget..

Crew is always hard to find, but we expect to have 4-5 consistently. Offshore we'd hope to go no higher than 8 dependent on conditions. This obviously makes the buying decision harder, but that's why I'm here!

Great Lakes conditions are a real issue too, as the conditions vary drastically..

Easy - get a cheap Mumm 30 and add a 2.2m bowsprit and 110sqm assym kite. Will beat all of them with 5-6 crew. Even faster if you take the engine out. See https://www.facebook.com/pegasusdekmarx

 

[TCWippy]

I’ve owned / and very successfully raced 30ish footers for the last 30 years on Lake Michigan, having owned Pearson Ensign, Platu 25, Tripp 26, J27, J29FRIB, J29MHIB, Andrew’s 30, J92, Bene 31.7, J33, Tripp 33, J33, Express 34, OD35, Bene 36.7.…. Have raced a bunch on many others including J22, J24, Melges 24, Mumm 30, J109…. The 30 footers are great bang for the buck, trailerable, easily stored, not too many crew, and sails are somewhat affordable. Don’t get hung up on spinnaker poles, MWPHRF has specific rules to allow you to convert any pole boat to a sprit boat and it’s easily done, and the rating adjustments seem fair. I converted both my Express 34 and Beneteau 36.7 to sprits / a sails just for fun, simplicity and safety, and both boats were very competitive in their revised configurations. I honestly have loved every boat I’ve owned but for my 10 cents….

1. Melges 24 - best one design class and best PHRF rating. Downside it is a pure race boat and good for nothing else. If you want great /affordable one design racing in this are, look no further. VERY competitive fleet
2. J29 MHIB - well sailed it will win every race (unless its racing against a M24). Has a serviceable interior. Problem is most have been ridden hard and put away wet, and they weren’t built that great to start with.
3. J92 - MWPHRF for some reason give this a gift rating. They are great to sail, fun to crew. Prices have actually been increasing over the years. Can’t say enough good things about these great boats.
4. Andrew’s 30 - These were maxi MORC boats and were precursors for the Mumm 30. I owned Risky Business which was a World Champion an is a fabulous boat, I think still down in Muskegon. Perhaps the most famous of the lot, Flak, is available on Yachtworld for what looks like a smokin good price. https://.www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1989-andrews-30-8047452/. If I were you THIS is the boat I would take a very hard look at. News sails, great pedigree, great price.
5. Mumm 30 - like the Farr 395, one of the best designed boats there is, but sadly also one of the worst constructed.
6. The Express 34 and J33 are fairly similar, super fun to sall, very competitive, great interiors, but very hard to find.
7. One Design 35 - getting to the upper end of your range, used to be impossible to sail to their rating. Most these days have been turbo’s with sprits and they have won some races. Not my favorite, but still super nice. I owned the old Windquest.
8. Current boat is a Bene 36.7, with masthead kite and sprit, and believe it or not, a trailer. My sportboat days are behind me, and the 36.7 is just a fabulous boat, and prices have dropped a ton.

Good luck. Hope this helps in some way!

 

[rcpmac]

Beneteau/seascape first 27 or 24. https://www.beneteau.com/us/first/first-27-new

 

[Yeah Buoy]

I second or third the Mt. Gay 30 Redrum. It's a top notch boat that is well built, was well sailed, well taken care of, and ready to go. With trailer! let me know if you want contact info.

 

[tehsailor]

I'm surprised there's been no mention of an S2 9.1 or Laser 28, those are very popular on the lakes.

 

[EvaOdland]

Lake Michigan...Great Lakes racing in general is a vintage boat parade shit show.

No one buys new boats.

SO the quest for a Go fast sport boats in shore around the bouys is one thing...BUT...most of those boats you simply can't take offshore in a Lake Michigan (LM) race....people died and they change the rules on most races as a result. If you really want to go fast and race offshore in conditions that LM will throw at you...you either up your budget to the likes of Class 40 boats and beyond....or.....be open to boats that have been time tested in the classic offshore LM races. (yes old slow 40 year old boats that won't get you there fast but you will get there)

You simply can't race ULDB sport boats boats offshore anymore. Too dangerous and prohibited by rules in many races.

The big problem with lack of innovation and adoption of offshore shorthanded racing here is 100% because of freshwater. The boats here last forever.

I am shocked there are only a handful of new racing(ish) boats on LM. It's like the pinnacle of offshore racing is a 20 year old J boat. The newest racer-cruiser boat in Milwaukee is a 2016 Dehler - 38 .... and the PRHF people make sure that boat never wins shit. Heaven forbid anyone buy a fucking class 40...or even a fucking Mini 6.50 (there was one...one time, I heard)

As such it is not uncommon to see 40-50 even 60 year old boats activity sailed and competing is numerous races. Fuck I even bought an old race boat. (still playing with it...raced a few times but keep reading)

Frankly....if you are in Milwaukee....the inshore racing pretty much sucks. It's simply not as good as it use to be 20 years ago. People are exclusive intolerant bigots and assholes or its got a handful of hyper-aggro fucking cheaters that makes the racing dangerously stupid. One fleet is known for collisions and disregarding rules as a rule. If you "protest" it's seen as an administrative burden and "bitching". As such certain types take advantage of that and literally hurtle their boats full speed outside of the rules into marks expecting everyone else to yield. Fuck that. I am not out there to put my crew in harms way from aggro bro dude idiots that cheat (or don't know what they are doing).

ONce upon a time, decades ago, people bought the new fast boats...and raced them in the great lakes...unfortunately most are still racing them or they got old, and the boats got sold and are still racing with a new owner.

If you are young and want to race....move. Go where the racing is....because here it is locked in some dumb time warp.

how about that for some fucking sailing anarchy....

 

[SailAnotherDay]

FLAK is a well-known MORC racing program, in MORC circles. Both the keel and rudder are highly modified from the original as MORC penalizes beaver-tail bulbs heavily. The length and width of foil are smaller than the original Andrew’s design.

 

[SaboJ35]

Lake Michigan...Great Lakes racing in general is a vintage boat parade shit show.

No one buys new boats.

SO the quest for a Go fast sport boats in shore around the bouys is one thing...BUT...most of those boats you simply can't take offshore in a Lake Michigan (LM) race....people died and they change the rules on most races as a result. If you really want to go fast and race offshore in conditions that LM will throw at you...you either up your budget to the likes of Class 40 boats and beyond....or.....be open to boats that have been time tested in the classic offshore LM races. (yes old slow 40 year old boats that won't get you there fast but you will get there)

You simply can't race ULDB sport boats boats offshore anymore. Too dangerous and prohibited by rules in many races.

The big problem with lack of innovation and adoption of offshore shorthanded racing here is 100% because of freshwater. The boats here last forever.

I am shocked there are only a handful of new racing(ish) boats on LM. It's like the pinnacle of offshore racing is a 20 year old J boat. The newest racer-cruiser boat in Milwaukee is a 2016 Dehler - 38 .... and the PRHF people make sure that boat never wins shit. Heaven forbid anyone buy a fucking class 40...or even a fucking Mini 6.50 (there was one...one time, I heard)

As such it is not uncommon to see 40-50 even 60 year old boats activity sailed and competing is numerous races. Fuck I even bought an old race boat. (still playing with it...raced a few times but keep reading)

Frankly....if you are in Milwaukee....the inshore racing pretty much sucks. It's simply not as good as it use to be 20 years ago. People are exclusive intolerant bigots and assholes or its got a handful of hyper-aggro fucking cheaters that makes the racing dangerously stupid. One fleet is known for collisions and disregarding rules as a rule. If you "protest" it's seen as an administrative burden and "bitching". As such certain types take advantage of that and literally hurtle their boats full speed outside of the rules into marks expecting everyone else to yield. Fuck that. I am not out there to put my crew in harms way from aggro bro dude idiots that cheat (or don't know what they are doing).

ONce upon a time, decades ago, people bought the new fast boats...and raced them in the great lakes...unfortunately most are still racing them or they got old, and the boats got sold and are still racing with a new owner.

If you are young and want to race....move. Go where the racing is....because here it is locked in some dumb time warp.

how about that for some fucking sailing anarchy....

Who the fuck are you?

 

[Rolf]

Check out this article . . . especially if you keep in mind that the racing on Lake Michigan is usually in older boats (as mentioned above) . . https://www.sailingworld.com/sailboats/16-phrf-racers-fit-budget/

When I was searching for my performance boat, this article was very helpful.