C&C 66 for sale - how much cash would this burn as a couple's cruiser?
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We met them once in the Azores years ago as they were motoring across the Atlantic at 10 knots - stopped in Horta to refuel. Some of the crew told us that they weren't allowed to put up the main unless the owner was on board, or unless a charter guest had signed a special waiver and put down a "new mainsail" deposit. I think on that transatlantic they said they had used the headsails a bit, but were on a schedule and didn't want to risk breaking anything...
Dirty little secret of all the superyachts - if you compare fuel costs to sail costs, it's cheaper to motor. And most of them do, most of the time.
Calling Elvis
Member
Ballpark figure, what’s a main sail cost on M5? It’s beyond what I can fathom. Like where can you even make something like that?
I think it's at batten pockets, if I remember correctly - kinda like a door hinge, with the batten being the pin and the two sections of sail have some sort of reinforced alternating loops that the batten slides through
eastern motors
Anarchist
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What do you do if a sail rips or you lose the powered winches on 66ft boat with 2 60yo crew? Just go below and hope?
I've actually got a lot of experience sailing boats to 87' with two or three aboard. And I'm a small person. The answer to your question is that you use the deck gear that you have. Even without electrics/hydraulics, the winches are very powerful. And it would be rare to have a systemic failure, so you can lead lines to another electric one. And you have lots of hardware to improvise with if you need more mechanical advantage.
People who sail boats under about 40' are generally in the habit of using their own human strength to do stuff on the boat, and that's their mindset - so bigger boats seem impossible. But the truth is once you get much over 40', and certainly over 50' you really don't use your own strength directly on the boat. You use winches (manual or not) and deck hardware, and mechanical advantage. Likewise around the dock, you don't just pull on a dockline, you use spring lines and the engine(s), and winches.
On our 57' cat the hardest work was actually lifting the dinghy - so we just changed from a 6:1 tackle to an 8:1 tackle. Now my wife sings while she lifts the dinghy!
The second answer to your question is that sure, shit happens, but with good seamanship and good preparation, and actual real scheduled and preventive maintenance (not just 'fix what breaks') a lot less shit happens. For example I've now sailed over 50K miles in boats with powered winches, and I've never had one fail yet. That said I've had plenty of autopilot motor, refrigeration motor, and anchor windlass failures. I haven't had a "dark ship" since 1978.
The third answer is that, sea room allowing, always turn downwind when you have a problem to sort out, and if necessary motor downwind at top throttle (9-10 knots on a bigger boat). Unless you're in a real gale this usually drops the apparent wind and noise levels way down, and calms the whole situation and speeds a resolution.
I used to run a Camper Nicholson 60 with my girlfriend that had been modified to have "behind the mast furling" for the main - an ugly fudge but worked OK. Out sailing in Nantucket sound we broke the furler at the tack just above the gooseneck in TWS about 16, AWS 22+. It was an impressive amount of noise and commotion!!! We sent the guests below, motored downwind at 9 knots, and had it sorted in 10 minutes.
This is correct. The sail was built by Robbie Doyle, the battens are tubular S-glass, done by Composite Engineering. My mast was held up while they made a replacement for one, 87' long. I was told the sail was assembled on the boom using a crane, it weighs something like 7 tons. All sail handing is done very carefully, to tack you make sure the motor is running, partially drop the main, drive it onto the new tack with the motor, the raise the main again.
It doesn't take a very big boat to get to where the motor is less costly than the sails and rig, both to install and use. It is true of my 45'. Since new, diesel fuel cost ~$6K, new mainsail being built, ~$20K. Initial diesel motor cost, ~$10K, rig ~$130K.
Pretty much what CapDave said, you use winches and halyards to move things around. We've never been without electricity in the batteries or had an electric winch fail. But if I have to hand crank it's not that rough, the mainsheet is 400 to 1.
Some one asked earlier about rigging the main, it takes about two hours for my wife and I. A halyard lifts it out of the hole, we unroll it on the dock, insert the battens, gasket it, install the lazy cradle on the boom, lift it into the boom with a halyard and pin the luff to the bat cars. Easier to do on a no wind day but doable when there is a breeze.
Weren't you in the Caribbean last year? Prices are pretty reasonable in Trinidad.
My boat isn't as big as yours, but I think the mainsail size is probably close. I do the same thing, 4-5 hours single handed, 2-3 with help. Done on the dock finger. The idea of removing the main at sea and taking it below to patch it up on the Sailrite would be a complete fantasy. I can deal with the main with manual winches if I really have to. But it is much easier to push a button. If not for that I'd be looking for <600 sq ft sails. The difference between a 600 sq ft sail and a 1000 sq ft sail isn't just 400 sq ft. The cloth is twice as heavy, the patches, battens, and hardware are twice as big and twice at thick. A couple of boats ago the heavily built Dacron 600 sq ft sail was 65 lbs. On this boat the high tech sail is ~200.
Yes, went to Maine last summer, back in Grenada now. But we spend more than $30K/year on parts before even getting to labor or services. Just since the start of '21 we've put on three new North 3Di sails and just ordered a new Quantum A2, new Harken genoa furler, new liferaft, new dinghy & outboard, new anchor windlass, new main halyard, new genoa sheets, new 2-part preventer blocks and lines both sides, new spinnaker halyard lock, all new nav electronics and wiring, new autopilot drive, new steering cables, new primary anchor chain/rode, new Echotec 55gph watermaker, $4K in engine parts for minor overhaul both engines, new Flex-o-Fold propellors both sides, and that's just the big stuff I remember off the top of my head....We also sailed the boat 6,300 miles and lived on her full time aside from a 6-week haulout in Grenada early this summer. In the next six months we're planning to renew the rod diamonds and some other rig work, and do a lithium battery upgrade with Lithionics batteries, external BMS, new regulators, and new shorepower charger. We're also thinking of doing an Atlantic circle next year, leave Bermuda June 1, back in the Caribbean in Jan '24. If we're feeling ambitious we'll go to Svalbard, if we dial it back we'll just go as far as Tromso, if we really chicken out we'll just do the Outer Hebrides.
Ouch! That's a lot to replace in one year, easily six figures. Tough if you can't spread the costs over several years but your spend shouldn't be as bad for a few years now.
We've found North 3di's to be so non competitive their not on our radar. We use hydrant instead and will recut as needed, it's about one half to one third the price of North. We also sail about 7,000 miles a year, so recut every 3~4 years.
We generally try to improve the boat in some fashion every year, last year was expensive, well over our $30k average this year is under. We knew we were going cruising so have been upgrading for several years, hard on the wallet when you do lots in one year, we know.
We'll be back in Trinidad early October and Grenada in November possibly we'll catch up, we'll look for you. Not many Atlantic 57's around. Great boats!
kinardly
Super Anarchist
Well, my SD condo costs me $40 K a year and more when I replace appliances and redo a bathroom as I did this last year, and it doesn’t sail. Plus, we dropped 12 grand on a trip to Europe. Hmmmm……
I'm thinking we've seen you around this year....your boat is also pretty recognizable! Would be fun to cross paths.
tane
Anarchist
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second that!
& btw: if you have to ask ANYTHING about a boat this size - it is NOT for you!
