We've done the math a few times, and removing the old system, producing electrons at zero cost, is hard to justify. Can you add a 2nd panel set and leave the existing ones doing their thing? Using your numbers, would take us about 25 years to pay that off. Using present value of money? doesn't add up.
We could theoretically add panels and get if different inverter so to speak. They are pushing the get it before the upcoming change and lock a new 20 year program in. Guess I am going to the spreadsheets. Thanks.
We did this a couple years back. Our 2003 panels only made 135W each when new, and they'd faded to maybe 75-80% output in the summer heat. They cost $6 a watt twenty years ago, not including the tracking mounts or charge controller! We wanted more output for faster battery charging, and the option to retire the wind turbine next time it shits the bed.
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Many, many thanks for taking the time to respond in such a thoughtful manner. I appreciate it very much. Will be doing a bunch more work based on this start. So I guess I have a 3500watt system (old) and we are looking to do an 8800 watt system.We did this a couple years back. Our 2003 panels only made 135W each when new, and they'd faded to maybe 75-80% output in the summer heat. They cost $6 a watt twenty years ago, not including the tracking mounts or charge controller! We wanted more output for faster battery charging, and the option to retire the wind turbine next time it shits the bed.
New panels were just slightly larger, a couple inches in each dimension, but they produce 320W each. Huge upgrade in power density. We're seeing at least 2.5X output gain. Delivered cost (CA to WY) was about $1500 for the panels, or $0.63/watt. Installed cost came out to just over $1/watt. But that's with me doing all the work. Dunno what the CA pricing environment is these days, but around here it has long been the rule that panels are about 50% of materials cost; balance of systems is the other 50%; dealer & install adds only about 25% onto materials cost, b/c authorized dealers get kit at reduced prices (40-60% under retail) & pretty much live on that markup. It's a hard way to earn your crust!
We did not have to substantially modify our racking, tho I did replace the 2x2x1/8" angle iron to provide more support & ensure we hit all available mounting holes. That cost $160. We had to add a second charge controller to handle the additional amps (~$600). Existing wiring was fine, had been sized for possible upgrade when installed. Much depends on how much if any of your existing infrastructure can be reused.
So the question here is are dealers marking the cost of systems way up, pocketing state and federal subsidies, so your installed cost where it would be minus tax credits & subsidies? I'd definitely ask for a detailed bill of materials with prices on it, then check to see what Unbound Solar and the altE store are selling those same panels for. Also advise getting an estimate from a second installer. IME, the pricing can vary by up to 2X. I'd honestly be angling for something around $2-2.50 per watt (system net cost) out of your pocket, after tax credits. Is CA adding state incentive these days? They used to be very generous.
Solar Panels California 2023: Estimate cost & savings for your home
See solar power prices, savings and payback in your part of California. This guide also shows all solar panel incentives & rebates, as well as the best solar companies in your area.
Solar Panel Cost Archives
The average solar panel cost has declined dramatically over the last decade, and solar systems now offer more value to homeowners than they ever have before
View attachment 568468
Smart to upsize the conductors on initial install.We did this a couple years back. Our 2003 panels only made 135W each when new, and they'd faded to maybe 75-80% output in the summer heat. They cost $6 a watt twenty years ago, not including the tracking mounts or charge controller! We wanted more output for faster battery charging, and the option to retire the wind turbine next time it shits the bed.
New panels were just slightly larger, a couple inches in each dimension, but they produce 320W each. Huge upgrade in power density. We're seeing at least 2.5X output gain. Delivered cost (CA to WY) was about $1500 for the panels, or $0.63/watt. Installed cost came out to just over $1/watt. But that's with me doing all the work. Dunno what the CA pricing environment is these days, but around here it has long been the rule that panels are about 50% of materials cost; balance of systems is the other 50%; dealer & install adds only about 25% onto materials cost, b/c authorized dealers get kit at reduced prices (40-60% under retail) & pretty much live on that markup. It's a hard way to earn your crust!
We did not have to substantially modify our racking, tho I did replace the 2x2x1/8" angle iron to provide more support & ensure we hit all available mounting holes. That cost $160. We had to add a second charge controller to handle the additional amps (~$600). Existing wiring was fine, had been sized for possible upgrade when installed. Much depends on how much if any of your existing infrastructure can be reused.
So the question here is are dealers marking the cost of systems way up, pocketing state and federal subsidies, so your installed cost where it would be minus tax credits & subsidies? I'd definitely ask for a detailed bill of materials with prices on it, then check to see what Unbound Solar and the altE store are selling those same panels for. Also advise getting an estimate from a second installer. IME, the pricing can vary by up to 2X. I'd honestly be angling for something around $2-2.50 per watt (system net cost) out of your pocket, after tax credits. Is CA adding state incentive these days? They used to be very generous.
Solar Panels California 2023: Estimate cost & savings for your home
See solar power prices, savings and payback in your part of California. This guide also shows all solar panel incentives & rebates, as well as the best solar companies in your area.
Solar Panel Cost Archives
The average solar panel cost has declined dramatically over the last decade, and solar systems now offer more value to homeowners than they ever have before
View attachment 568468
We had thought I might need to just add two panels to each tracker, if they weren't keeping up with demand. So we ran high-quality #6 copper to the house, tho our current was just 30-35A/array at 24VDC. Copper was cheap in 2003.
I wired up the new panels for 48VDC, so even with the 250% increase in wattage, current is still a manageable 41-43A. The Outback MPPT charge controllers downconvert to match the (nominal) 24V battery voltage.
do it once, you knew you were going to be there a whileWe had thought I might need to just add two panels to each tracker, if they weren't keeping up with demand. So we ran high-quality #6 copper to the house, tho our current was just 30-35A/array at 24VDC. Copper was cheap in 2003.
I've planted hundreds. Nearly all of them died.
Bergey Windpower XL.1, 1000W at 8.25' diameter. Failure modes: all of them. No really -- everything that can possibly fail has failed. This is not unusual in any small wind turbine, tho Bergey has brought it to a fine art.
Bummer
I think we are going to do 2nd aray instead of replacing and adding. The new panels are nice.
