Can someone help me make my lead mine actually move

robtoujours

Anarchist
542
324
Somewhere
Radical solution:

Get a rigger, NA, and sailmaker to draw up a new sail plan and replace the mast with a taller carbon one with new sails :)

Ok ok..

Remove antifouling and strip to gelcoat. Put on coppercoat. It’s smooth and will stay smooth.

What’s the moisture in the hull? Maybe dry her out for a couple of months before AF

Remove any protrusions. Like old transducers or logs. For essential thru hulls repace standard ones with conical ones from TruDesign etc that are flush with hull

Weight distribution. Heavy stuff low and in the middle.

No junk on the trunk. Ie no crap on deck

Save weight aloft, get rid of mast steps, radars and the like .. replace hardware with synthetic eg soft shackles or dyneema lifelines wherever you can

Teak decks? Tear em out and paint

Anything you can tear out and replace with something simpler and lighter is good if you have time / budget. Probably a lot of old cruft onboard you could do without. Even things like replacing plywood or old teak with foam/glass sandwich etc.

Sounds to me easy light air sails are important in any event.

Can you fit a removable sprit and a code 0? Cruisers often find spinnakers a hassle and so dont fly them, you could try these wingaker/ parasailor designs, they are expensive but reputedly easy to fly with wide wind angles
 
Last edited:

billsreef

Anarchist
657
331
Miami
Undersized sails like you have will turn any boat into a slug, even with good wind. If can't afford new right now, look into decent condition used that will fit better. A foot off on the luff isn't too bad, but 6' short is a lot of missing sail area.
 

Veeger

Super Anarchist
What @billsreef said. 6' short is off the top of the sail, it's the equivalent of at least 1 1/2 reefs. No surprise she's a touch draggy. The PO obviously scrimped on sails. Don't do the same thing.

Besides, for cruising 'south', now you're talking a whole nuther story. New sails are a necessity and will make you much, much happier.
 

alctel

Member
451
129
Victoria
Now you're talking something entirely different since you plan to sail South again next year.
Summer is pretty much over in PNW so less windless days.
Why sweat it for the little time you will be here, and you said you are still refitting the boat so you won't have all that much time to sail around here anyway.
Absolutely keep the Rafiki. As far as sails go, yes get new ones - but ones built with an ocean crossing in mind rather than light air sailing in PNW

And no, 6 ft isn't shallow draft, but there is a big difference performance wise between a fin keeler drawing 6 ft and a long keeler drawing 6 ft where the hull accounts for most of the draft.

Ah, I see. I didn't think about where the draft came from!

WTF!?

Can we assume that because the boat was previously cruised long distances that every locker is stuffed with all manner of heavy decrepit rusty mouldering useless garbage? Is that 600 feet of chain and several spare anchors still in the bow? Any guess on how much the boat actually displaces? 35,000?

Is that incredible expanse of bottom paint in perfect condition.

I just repainted the bottom so it better be in good condition! And the interior of the boat wasn't bad. The PO were the archetypal cruisers who don't really sail much (and with a 120 gallon of fuel it's easy not to)

Radical solution:

Get a rigger, NA, and sailmaker to draw up a new sail plan and replace the mast with a taller carbon one with new sails :)

Ok ok..

Remove antifouling and strip to gelcoat. Put on coppercoat. It’s smooth and will stay smooth.

What’s the moisture in the hull? Maybe dry her out for a couple of months before AF

Remove any protrusions. Like old transducers or logs. For essential thru hulls repace standard ones with conical ones from TruDesign etc that are flush with hull

Weight distribution. Heavy stuff low and in the middle.

No junk on the trunk. Ie no crap on deck

Save weight aloft, get rid of mast steps, radars and the like .. replace hardware with synthetic eg soft shackles or dyneema lifelines wherever you can

Teak decks? Tear em out and paint

Can you fit a removable sprit and a code 0? Cruisers often find spinnakers a hassle and so dont fly them, you could try these wingaker/ parasailor designs, they are expensive but reputedly easy to fly with wide wind angles

I'll look into coppercoat. I want to haul out again next spring anyway and repaint the hull sides, they are a bit worn.

She does have a protruding fairing for the transducer - I'll look into Trudesign, I've never heard of them before.

Teak decks yeah, I still haven't decided what to do there.

I looked at a removeable sprit, and my friend has a code 0 on a removeable furler which I was looking at. Very pricey though compared to a cheap 2nd hand spinny. I haven't heard of wingaker/ parasailor - interesting!

Or, rig a squaresail.. underrated

A square-rigged sail? Like the old ships of yore?
 

Lost in Translation

Super Anarchist
1,265
67
Atlanta, GA
I have seen a boat owner splice several feet into a mast to extend it and improve light air performance. I wouldn’t recommend that given where your goals but it is a possibility.

Your boat is actually pretty fully rigged in terms of rig height, etc if it really has a 17 foot boom and 16 foot J. it’s just heavy. I would get good sails with a roachy main and add a vang and ideally adjustable backstab if it doesn’t have one.

I sail often with a 150 Genoa on a boat kinda like your hunter. It is much more powerful than a smaller head sail. You can get a foam luff to help it roller reef better than it would otherwise. It also is powerful poled out downwind though nothing like a kite in light air.
 

Somebody Else

a person of little consequence
7,638
805
PNW
Hi. I got a boat that sails really shitty but I like the way it looks.
Can you tell me how to make it less shitty without spending money?
 

bgytr

Super Anarchist
5,003
628
Lotta comments about displacement and slow light air performance...
Light air performance sub hull speed is driven by wetted surface much more than displacement. Some heavy boats are lower wetted surface hull forms, like the 12 meters designed for Newport, and Ted Hood centerboarders, as well as others. You get low wetted surface with high displacement by having low beam and straight hull lines.
Some heavy boats sail very well in lighter winds if the design keeps wetted surface low.
Screenshot_20220913-064309_Drive.jpg
 

robtoujours

Anarchist
542
324
Somewhere
Yeah, that's why I mentioned getting all old AF off and putting on Coppercoat, and then smoothing out any protrusions

I've seen some gnarly rough unfair surfaces underwater, especially on keels, adds a lot of friction, also cruisers tend to just add new transducers etc and never remove the old ones

teak decks will be the biggest weight by mass you can take off. and weight is in wrong place. if screwed down they can cause 6000 leaks. its a fairly big job though.

you could also do things like consolidate old water tanks into a smaller integral one built into the bilge

if you haven't replaced your standard rigging yet then dyneema could be a good choice for the weight savings aloft. but with your displacement its unlikely you have a problem with being too tender

but most suggestions are probably a complete waste of time in terms of cost/benefit

what other people say tho, talk to a good sailmaker, explain your plans, and don't skimp on a new suit of cruising sails. then maybe fly an old spin and see how things perform out on the water, take it from there
 
Last edited:

robtoujours

Anarchist
542
324
Somewhere
A square-rigged sail? Like the old ships of yore?

Sure, here's an example from Facebook (material is a tarp for testing)

"(Peter Bailey)
I've been sailing and messing about in boats for 60 years or so and have lately added a very useful sail to our 36' Cape George marconi cutter, a square sail that replaces the staysail when needed and is used for any course from a reach to a run.
The gear was from a 1927 book and for a 700 sq ft sail while ours is only 200 sq ft so I lightened some bits up.
The yard is our spinnaker pole with a plastic pipe doubler to strengthen it against bending while the current experimental sail is a 12x16 tarp and this odd setup works very well.
Yard hoists on a jackstay riding on a traveler on the forestay.
Can be stowed as shown for ready use or horizontally on the lifelines.
During first tests we did 2k with 3-5k of wind using the sail alone.
4 oz Dacron for an actual sail has been ordered and I'll make that in the next few weeks."

My Dads old gaff ketch had a squaresail. Boat couldn't point anyway so we had some fun with it (long time ago; was Dacron)

305056918_10224382292279908_5466353397506360568_n.jpg


305050955_10224382287359785_8750987956848060672_n.jpg


304566761_10224382288479813_7747478921506806553_n.jpg

From:
 
Last edited:

CapDave

Member
397
320
Sint Maarten
Sure, here's an example from Facebook (material is a tarp for testing)

"(Peter Bailey)
I've been sailing and messing about in boats for 60 years or so and have lately added a very useful sail to our 36' Cape George marconi cutter, a square sail that replaces the staysail when needed and is used for any course from a reach to a run.
The gear was from a 1927 book and for a 700 sq ft sail while ours is only 200 sq ft so I lightened some bits up.
The yard is our spinnaker pole with a plastic pipe doubler to strengthen it against bending while the current experimental sail is a 12x16 tarp and this odd setup works very well.
Yard hoists on a jackstay riding on a traveler on the forestay.
Can be stowed as shown for ready use or horizontally on the lifelines.
During first tests we did 2k with 3-5k of wind using the sail alone.
4 oz Dacron for an actual sail has been ordered and I'll make that in the next few weeks."

My Dads old gaff ketch had a squaresail. Boat couldn't point anyway so we had some fun with it (long time ago; was Dacron)

View attachment 540851

View attachment 540853

View attachment 540852

From:
I once worked as a deckhand on Tern IV for a couple months in 1979 out of St. Thomas for Roger & Joy Fothergill. When I say deckhand, I mean it - I was only allowed below to use the head, otherwise I lived, ate and slept on deck. We never used the squaresail.
 

CapDave

Member
397
320
Sint Maarten
Lotta comments about displacement and slow light air performance...
Light air performance sub hull speed is driven by wetted surface much more than displacement. Some heavy boats are lower wetted surface hull forms, like the 12 meters designed for Newport, and Ted Hood centerboarders, as well as others. You get low wetted surface with high displacement by having low beam and straight hull lines.
Some heavy boats sail very well in lighter winds if the design keeps wetted surface low. View attachment 540844
I've sailed a lot of miles on Ted Hood designs, very heavy with very big rigs - and low wetted surface area. They did great in light air chop upwind because of the momentum.
 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,076
1,010
SoCal
I've sailed a lot of miles on Ted Hood designs, very heavy with very big rigs - and low wetted surface area. They did great in light air chop upwind because of the momentum.
As long as you have it, momentum is great! As soon as you loose it, it’s a bitch to get back…
 

Latest posts




Top