slug zitski
Super Anarchist
Sit in the back of a canoe the tell me about buoyancy
Canoe stern - why?
- Thread starter Edik
- Start date
[email protected]
Super Anarchist
Canoe times two.
You’re conflating a canoe with a canoe stern sailboat. Just because the sailboat variety has a pointy ass doesn’t strictly imply that there is a lack of buoyancy there. Again, if you take a close look at the lines of canoe stern sailboats, you will see that they carry their volume farther aft than their contemporary counterparts in most cases; this is reflected in the curve of areas. The international 110 is a good example. This boat readily planes, which is something people taking your line of thought would think impossible, but in addition to some other design features it is the result of this available buoyancy in the ass end of the boat.
And tonight, this little 32 ft double ender beauty is 900 miles Northwest of Cape Horn.
Olleanna, an OE32 being sailed by Jeremy Bagshaw in the Golden Globe Race.
At 32 ft LOA and about 6, 4 tonnes she is the smallest and lightest boat in the race. Weather forecasts for the next 10 days show that she is in for a rough ride to The Horn. She is in good hands and I wish them well in their endeavour to round Cape Horn.
This boat has a fairly full stern if she is compared with her contemporaries designed in the late 60's and early 70's. She sails beautifully.
I must say, the small double enders are very pretty boats, but they lose their looks once they go over about 39ft.
Photo credits to Jean-Luc Lhomond and Simon McDonnell respectively.
Olleanna, an OE32 being sailed by Jeremy Bagshaw in the Golden Globe Race.
At 32 ft LOA and about 6, 4 tonnes she is the smallest and lightest boat in the race. Weather forecasts for the next 10 days show that she is in for a rough ride to The Horn. She is in good hands and I wish them well in their endeavour to round Cape Horn.
This boat has a fairly full stern if she is compared with her contemporaries designed in the late 60's and early 70's. She sails beautifully.
I must say, the small double enders are very pretty boats, but they lose their looks once they go over about 39ft.
Photo credits to Jean-Luc Lhomond and Simon McDonnell respectively.
Tanton Y_M
Super Anarchist
A rounded Transom.
You either like double-enders, or you don't.
This was my 40' double-ender. I think she looks pretty good anchored in Tahiti.
She was also very fast off the wind, thanks to a big rig--2m/7' taller than the original rig design.
The picture under sail was taken in the middle of the Indian Ocean. There is a reef in the main despite the 15-18kt breeze just so we didn't sail away from the 39' cutter and the 46' Cal that we were sailing in company with to see if it was practical to sail in reasonable proximity for extended periods. In this case, there was way too much proximity, and we almost collided while taking pictures a few waves later.
That was the end of the sailing in company. I shook out the reef a bit later and sailed away.
The biggest problem with a double-ender is the reduced storage aft, but you really shouldn't be stuffing a lot of weight in the back end of any boat.
The half model is an accurate representation of the hull.
This was my 40' double-ender. I think she looks pretty good anchored in Tahiti.
She was also very fast off the wind, thanks to a big rig--2m/7' taller than the original rig design.
The picture under sail was taken in the middle of the Indian Ocean. There is a reef in the main despite the 15-18kt breeze just so we didn't sail away from the 39' cutter and the 46' Cal that we were sailing in company with to see if it was practical to sail in reasonable proximity for extended periods. In this case, there was way too much proximity, and we almost collided while taking pictures a few waves later.
That was the end of the sailing in company. I shook out the reef a bit later and sailed away.
The biggest problem with a double-ender is the reduced storage aft, but you really shouldn't be stuffing a lot of weight in the back end of any boat.
The half model is an accurate representation of the hull.
sledracr
Super Anarchist
I'm no yacht designer, but... isn't that an oxymoron?
"A transom is the flat termination of the stern, typically above the waterline"
Peter Andersen
Super Anarchist
- 1,212
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Have been in big flowing seas on a Snekke off WC Norway
Very nice ride.
file photo
Very nice ride.
file photo
Boat evolution: "Olaf died. His boat sucked. Sven, try yours next"
blurocketsmate
Super Anarchist
The Calkins 50 is one of my all time favorites, maybe my ultimate dream boat.
When I last lived in Newport Beach, I cruised by Catherine, Justine, and Zapata all the time. Zapata is the flush-decked ketch, no? I was told she is Legend, renamed. Also that the late Doug Peterson was, then, a partner in Sabrina. This was 2009-2012.
I saw Ginny a couple of times in the PNW, in the 2000s. She was still winning races.
For aesthetic comparison, an "L50" looks just like a Calkins, but with a squared-off transom. I used to see two of these around the PNW, a white one, and a pea-green one. I don't know what they are. Though they look like they could be a Lapworth, the Lapworth 50 is another great looking double-ender. There was one in Gibsons BC.
There was also a Calkins 40, but I've never seen one.
seatosummit
New member
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Well, I'm not really a fan of super-modern high-tech boats, the fact is that dozens of IMOCA 60's with an 18' wide stern but no transom to speak of have been racing thru the southern ocean and around the Horn for over 10 years and not one incident as far as I can tell. Plus plenty of video from onboard, helos, drones etc. What does that prove?
charisma94
Fucking Legend
Proves nothing.
We're talking about canoe sterns... pluses and minus's. Not sure WTF you're talking about.
Holy crap, that looks ridiculous.
There is something very unnatural about seeing open air beneath a person sitting on deck. Does anyone look comfortable doing their job on that crew?
What is all that overhang doing for anyone other than the marina owner who gets 60' slip fees for a forty foot boat. It certainly can't justify just waiting around ready to split a following sea for it fills the bathtub cockpit. Apparently the last wave washed away the lifelines.
No they don't. There is simply no volume in the leeward aft corner to provide any sail-carrying power. Or quarter-berth accommodation. Or just a sailbag or two. Just look at the shining pintail examples posted on this thread.
If you are thinking of IOR-influenced rule-beater designs and the cruising boats that followed their fashion, then you have something of a point. But those were never designed to be good boats, just be minimally faster than a really hostile-to-speed algorithm.
Balanced designs tend to sail on their lines. And make use of their length.
mckenzie.keith
Aspiring Anarchist
We didn't have an anemometer. But I guess it was 40 knots or more of wind and very short seas. I grew up sailing in San Francisco bay and it is often 30 knots under the bridge. The Freya 39 is an under-canvassed boat and can sail in 30 knots with a single reef and partially furled headsail. This was categorically different. A whole other level up of wind from 30 knots.
Also, all the seas were 3 meters or more, which isn't a big sea, really, but they were very close together. Waves breaking on the boat were atomized and spirited off by the wind following the streamlines of the boat as if gravity did not exist. Like smoke in a wind tunnel. It was too windy to eat or drink anything in the cockpit. I mean, I guess maybe you could eat some things, but you couldn't drink water from a cup, for example. It would just all blow away. I was not able to eat saltine crackers.
You had to hold on with two hands pretty much at all times. If you only held on with one hand, the boat would find a way to throw you down.
It was pretty hard to sleep, too.
The next day, after we made it to port just before sunset, we found out that numerous buoys had moved off-station due to wind and/or wave action. Another boat we had been talking with got stuck out in that weather one more night than we did. They had something come lose aboard and smash into one of the crew. I guess it was a pretty bad laceration on her head. Both crew left that boat and never came back, leaving the skipper crewless. This was in the Bay of Carpenteria in northern Australia. The port was called Gove as I recall. Or maybe it was just near Gove. Gove is a town that only exists because of a bauxite mine. I don't even know if it still exists.
Our boat was relatively squared away, seeing as how we had sailed to Australia from California by way of the south pacific. But that other boat was an Aussie boat starting off on what was supposed to be an epic adventure across the Indian ocean after going around the top of Australia. Hard break getting that kind of weather before you even did any long passages. I think we did lose our dodger. It was on its last legs and one of us stumbled into it or something and tore it beyond repair.
Anyway, it wasn't a survival storm. There was no danger of the boat breaking up or sinking. And we made it to port despite the port being ever so slightly to windward. But it was some shitty weather for sure. Worst weather we saw in the two years we were out. Definitely would not have been better if we untied the third reef and hoisted more sail.
not really a contemporary counterpart is it?
Gove is the backside of nowhere. We put in there for fuel on a passage between Port Douglas and Darwin in late 2000.
Nothing but heat, red dust, bauxite, and listless people sitting around at best doing nothing. They didn't even want to sell us fuel, because they weren't set up to deal with yachts. They finallly agreed to, but we had to tie up to a massive concrete jetty suited only for ships and tugs in order to fuel.
kinardly
Super Anarchist
Note: @mckenzie.keith now owns a boat that is the complete antithesis of the canoe sterned lead mine. I, for one, would be interested in hearing his thoughts after he’s cruised the Concordia 47 for a while.
mckenzie.keith
Aspiring Anarchist
Exactly. I am going to find out for better or worse!
