silent bob
Super Anarchist
Carbon is inert to U/V. The resin may need a U/V inhibitor. A physical barrier is better, IMHO. This could be something as simple as paint, a braided sleeve, shrink tubing, or even a spiraled wrap of electrical tape.
Carbon Rigging Retrofit
- Thread starter Wagonmonster
- Start date
slug zitski
Super Anarchist
One of the goals with carbon rigging is windage reduction ... fewer terminals, fittings , foil profiles
Sacrificial Covers equal added windage
i see the riggers wiping down the carbon with a black ,water thin fluid
I believe the concoction contains SI-14 nano particles that block UV
Autonomous
Turgid Member
Does CF rigging transmit more-larger shock loads than SS wire or rod rigging? Or am I barking at the moon again?
That's about right for steel. To do better they'd need to achieve a packing rate of about 70%, possible with small pultruded rods. Are you saying some of it has no resin at all, just terminated linear tows?
slug zitski
Super Anarchist
As far as I know they all have resin
from one manufactures brochure 2015
im sure things have moved forward
Thermoset Carbon (TSC) rigging (the rigid system) is designed for use as standing rigging. It’s made by looping a single continuous epoxy prepreg tow around two titanium end-terminations mounted apart from one another at a fixed distance equal to the specified cable length — a system Future Fibres notes was pioneered in 1996 by company founder Tom Hutchinson. The carbon fiber is HexTow IM9, from Hexcel (Stamford, CT, US), with a 303 GPa tensile modulus, slightly higher than that of Toray’s T800. The looped cable is loaded under tension, shrink-taped to consolidate the layup, and then cured in an oven ramped up at intervals to 180°C for two to four hours. TSC cables terminate in a small end-diameter, which helps to reduce windage, that is, the frictional force created by air on an object. The end size depends on the application; for a high-performance racing design, such as a Grand Prix Transpac 52-class (TP52) yacht, the first cable (running from the deck to the first spreader on the mast) would be about 9.3 mm in diameter. Its breaking strength would be approximately 13,400 kg.
from one manufactures brochure 2015
im sure things have moved forward
Thermoset Carbon (TSC) rigging (the rigid system) is designed for use as standing rigging. It’s made by looping a single continuous epoxy prepreg tow around two titanium end-terminations mounted apart from one another at a fixed distance equal to the specified cable length — a system Future Fibres notes was pioneered in 1996 by company founder Tom Hutchinson. The carbon fiber is HexTow IM9, from Hexcel (Stamford, CT, US), with a 303 GPa tensile modulus, slightly higher than that of Toray’s T800. The looped cable is loaded under tension, shrink-taped to consolidate the layup, and then cured in an oven ramped up at intervals to 180°C for two to four hours. TSC cables terminate in a small end-diameter, which helps to reduce windage, that is, the frictional force created by air on an object. The end size depends on the application; for a high-performance racing design, such as a Grand Prix Transpac 52-class (TP52) yacht, the first cable (running from the deck to the first spreader on the mast) would be about 9.3 mm in diameter. Its breaking strength would be approximately 13,400 kg.
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slug zitski
Super Anarchist
That is higher tech fab than I might have guessed, the prestretch while curing would help maintain the modulus, but it still doesn't answer what the modulus of the finished material is. The manufacturers all seem kind of cagey on this, not mentioning it in published literature that I can find (this includes the OPs company). If they are getting away with shim tuning, then it must be fairly stiff, wonder why they don't quote some figures? Surely they have tested it?
Rasputin22
Rasputin22
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I'm looking into the Lightspeed stuff for a new build project and just want to say that a lot of the photos and examples being posted here are older products and techniques so somewhat like an apples to oranges comparison. Just spent a couple of hours on the phone with the sales rep and really like what I heard. Also like the pricing and lead times!
slug zitski
Super Anarchist
Rasputin22
Rasputin22
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Will do Slug, I will inquire further but what I was just told in that LightSpeed uses a Ti thimble and a single carbon uni roving is wound around the two thimbles and then pre-tensioned before the epoxy matrix is infused or whatever magic they use. I was told that the end result is impact resistant yet still flexible enough to be rolled for shipping in a 5' diameter coil. Technora braided cover for headstays and soft hanks should play well together. The Ti turnbuckle sure look slick and well integrated. Lead times are way less that continuous wound cables from Sri Lanka which is a big factor to me.
Here are a lashing eye with soft hole edges for use with loups and a clevis pin thimble with a molded protective housing that looks pretty substantial.
Where did you find that photo of the shim tension fitting above? Is that adjusted by a cam or actually using shims. Looks like a eccentric cam to me with the stop pins.
Not much adjustment with that setup and I would guess that this would be used with a hydraulic mast ram on a race boat.
slug zitski
Super Anarchist
YahWill do Slug, I will inquire further but what I was just told in that LightSpeed uses a Ti thimble and a single carbon uni roving is wound around the two thimbles and then pre-tensioned before the epoxy matrix is infused or whatever magic they use. I was told that the end result is impact resistant yet still flexible enough to be rolled for shipping in a 5' diameter coil. Technora braided cover for headstays and soft hanks should play well together. The Ti turnbuckle sure look slick and well integrated. Lead times are way less that continuous wound cables from Sri Lanka which is a big factor to me.
Here are a lashing eye with soft hole edges for use with loups and a clevis pin thimble with a molded protective housing that looks pretty substantial.
Where did you find that photo of the shim tension fitting above? Is that adjusted by a cam or actually using shims. Looks like a eccentric cam to me with the stop pins.
Not much adjustment with that setup and I would guess that this would be used with a hydraulic mast ram on a race boat.
mast jack and precise shims
you must investigate the terminals
Titanium resists corrosion
stainless suffers crevice corrosion over time
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Haligonian Winterr
Super Anarchist
End fittings are Ti. Wound bobbins are generally foolproof, the potted cones are another story.
HW
GbayCup1888
New member
- 1
- 0
In case you were considering this for your rig, here's a Facebook post from Ocean Racers who used Light Speed Carbon rigging. I believe this is the Pogo 12.50 above, aka Wagonmonster.
https://www.facebook.com/430825243740518/posts/2052279701595056/
PSA: The facts of the matter.
It’s said there are 3 sides to every story: yours, theirs, and the truth. Well, we are only ever interested in the truth, and to be fair, we’ve given the manufacturer the opportunity to be part of the solution, but they chose not to be.
When our carbon rigging was installed in December 2020, a lot of public statements and claims were made. The LS Carbon we installed on Hermes was marketed to us and the public as “offshore-capable,” “rugged,” “durable,” and with a lifespan of “15+ years.”
The manufacturer now claims our version of their rigging is not the current on the market, and an additional integrated layer of Technora fiber added in late March 2021 to the product line would combat any chafe issues. We, however, do not believe that the bare LS Carbon, even with the added Technora fibers, would have prevented this failure based on our experiences.
Regardless of which version of LS Carbon rigging this is, it was expected for the manufacturer to stand by their original claims and promises. Even if they consider this to be the first generation of their product… or however they want to classify our LS Carbon rigging to the public ONLY after it has failed.
Based on our experiences, racing and sailing over 250,000 NM combined around the world, and our experiences with LS Carbon, we cannot endorse this product for offshore use. Despite our candid disclosures to the public causing me legal stress, I cannot in good conscience stay silent. What we experienced offshore, we would not wish on anyone.
The only people who truly know what happened were the 8 people that were onboard, and the sole individual responsible for building this product and making the claims that put our boat and lives at risk.
Here are the photos for you all to make your own deductions and conclusions. What failed? I’ll let you decide. But I can stand by it was not my Dacron mainsail or fiberglass batten that couldn’t keep their shit together…
https://www.facebook.com/430825243740518/posts/2052279701595056/
PSA: The facts of the matter.
It’s said there are 3 sides to every story: yours, theirs, and the truth. Well, we are only ever interested in the truth, and to be fair, we’ve given the manufacturer the opportunity to be part of the solution, but they chose not to be.
When our carbon rigging was installed in December 2020, a lot of public statements and claims were made. The LS Carbon we installed on Hermes was marketed to us and the public as “offshore-capable,” “rugged,” “durable,” and with a lifespan of “15+ years.”
The manufacturer now claims our version of their rigging is not the current on the market, and an additional integrated layer of Technora fiber added in late March 2021 to the product line would combat any chafe issues. We, however, do not believe that the bare LS Carbon, even with the added Technora fibers, would have prevented this failure based on our experiences.
Regardless of which version of LS Carbon rigging this is, it was expected for the manufacturer to stand by their original claims and promises. Even if they consider this to be the first generation of their product… or however they want to classify our LS Carbon rigging to the public ONLY after it has failed.
Based on our experiences, racing and sailing over 250,000 NM combined around the world, and our experiences with LS Carbon, we cannot endorse this product for offshore use. Despite our candid disclosures to the public causing me legal stress, I cannot in good conscience stay silent. What we experienced offshore, we would not wish on anyone.
The only people who truly know what happened were the 8 people that were onboard, and the sole individual responsible for building this product and making the claims that put our boat and lives at risk.
Here are the photos for you all to make your own deductions and conclusions. What failed? I’ll let you decide. But I can stand by it was not my Dacron mainsail or fiberglass batten that couldn’t keep their shit together…
slug zitski
Super Anarchist
Hello. In full disclosure, my name is Brian and you can easily find my information if you are looking.
This new Fake account is clearly made or farmed out by Meg. It was just created, with the sole purpose of trolling.
Meg, please don't do this. I'm begging you to look into your soul. I have nothing to hide, nothing to lose and have remained neutral in this childish spat.
You will literally kill yourself with all this hate in your heart.
Delete this fake account Gbaycup1888, made only and solely for the purpose of trolling this single story.
Do the right thing.
Brian
This new Fake account is clearly made or farmed out by Meg. It was just created, with the sole purpose of trolling.
Meg, please don't do this. I'm begging you to look into your soul. I have nothing to hide, nothing to lose and have remained neutral in this childish spat.
You will literally kill yourself with all this hate in your heart.
Delete this fake account Gbaycup1888, made only and solely for the purpose of trolling this single story.
Do the right thing.
Brian
Max Rockatansky
DILLIGAF?
- 4,030
- 1,105
To be clear,
Gbaycup1888 is a Fake Trolling account.
Gbaycup was created 11 hours ago to spew venom on SA.
I wasn't referring to any other accounts on this thread, and a apologize for any misunderstanding.
The fake account is Gbaycup1888, not any other.
Please meg, do not respond to this post. Just delete the account.
Brian (aka Burley)
Gbaycup1888 is a Fake Trolling account.
Gbaycup was created 11 hours ago to spew venom on SA.
I wasn't referring to any other accounts on this thread, and a apologize for any misunderstanding.
The fake account is Gbaycup1888, not any other.
Please meg, do not respond to this post. Just delete the account.
Brian (aka Burley)
Max Rockatansky
DILLIGAF?
- 4,030
- 1,105
@Burley Reread my post.
Is the FACEBOOK account
https://m.facebook.com/430825243740518/posts/2052279701595056/#_=_
a falsity or not? Simple question.
Is the FACEBOOK account
https://m.facebook.com/430825243740518/posts/2052279701595056/#_=_
a falsity or not? Simple question.
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Max,
I know both parties involved in this saga. They are both friends and I have struggled to stay neutral.
One party is making it impossible to do so.
I'm begging them to stop, and still trying hard to stay out of it, before it turns into a massive lawsuit.
Having been down that path, I can assure you, no one wins but the lawyers. It consumed 5 years of my life and nearly destroyed my well being, career and marriage. Thankfully, it all stayed intact and is the reason I am pleading with both parties.
Go to the manufacturer's website.
B
I know both parties involved in this saga. They are both friends and I have struggled to stay neutral.
One party is making it impossible to do so.
I'm begging them to stop, and still trying hard to stay out of it, before it turns into a massive lawsuit.
Having been down that path, I can assure you, no one wins but the lawyers. It consumed 5 years of my life and nearly destroyed my well being, career and marriage. Thankfully, it all stayed intact and is the reason I am pleading with both parties.
Go to the manufacturer's website.
B
